The Wrong Kind of Cruelty

Dr Caroline Lucas, Green MEP and “acknowledged expert on peace issues,” displays her usual clarity of thought:

I am delighted that European foreign ministers have finally approved a ban. It’s a real victory for the global campaign against animal cruelty, and a victory for democracy… By closing the door on fur and other seal products, the EU has taken meaningful action to reduce the scale of commercial seal killing and prove to governments that barbaric annual displays of animal cruelty will no longer be tolerated.

Barbaric. Cruel. No longer tolerated. Got that?

In an aside to this, it’s also worth noting that the Green MEPs were keen to ensure that products from traditional hunts by indigenous peoples in Canada and Greenland will not be covered by the ban.

Ah. Evidently, the barbarism, cruelty and refusal to tolerate depend not on the act itself but on who’s doing it and how traditional and indigenous they are. Traditional, indigenous cruelty is, it seems, something Dr Lucas can live with. In fact, her colleagues are “keen” to do so. Those deemed sufficiently indigenous and traditional will no doubt be immune to the activity’s “de-humanising” effects.

(h/t, sk60)

Comments

[carbon based lifeform]

Maybe "traditionally hunted" seal fur will become the new "must have".

[James S]

So "non-indigenous" people will have to adapt and find other work. That's progress. But traditional hunting by "indigenous peoples" is different because it's traditional and indigenous?

[sackcloth and ashes]

I have sent Ms Lucas an email.

[mlrosty]

When "indigenous peoples" go hunting the seals actually enjoy it. Provided it's done traditionally.

[jones]

sackcloth and ashes

'I have sent Ms Lucas an email.'

May I please have the relevant address?.Went to her website but there didn't seem to be a facility where the great unwashed could express an opinion.I may have missed it mind.

mlrosty

'When "indigenous peoples" go hunting the seals actually enjoy it. Provided it's done traditionally.'

Indeed.

[jones]

Addit

Yet Lucas opposed fox hunting.The double standards seem curious.I wonder what her stance is on the traditional Middle East slave trade?

[David]

“But traditional hunting by ‘indigenous peoples’ is different because it’s traditional and indigenous?”

Maybe there are differences in methodology, but I doubt the difference is sufficient to warrant such categorical exemption. I don’t have a strong view on seal hunting, but Dr Lucas evidently does, and her view is couched in the language of moral indignation. She’s described seal hunting as “intensely cruel,” “barbaric,” “inhumane,” “undignified,” “dehumanising” and not to be tolerated, apparently on moral grounds. She’s also claimed that, “Until we ban seal imports, we, in Europe, have the blood of the seals on our hands.”

It therefore seems a little odd to pointedly exempt certain participants, apparently based on their ethnicity or some claim of being “traditional.” The moral basis of her thinking, if there is one, isn’t very clear.

[Trimegistus]

Simple, really. Non-white people do it, therefore it's GOOD.

[sackcloth and ashes]

I emailed her on:

carolinelucas@greenmeps.org.uk

[Cher]

I'm assuming that the distinction between indigenous and non-indigenous that Ms. Lucas is referring to is that long held belief that indigenous folk do not exploit the animals they kill, do not hunt to extinction and that they manage the hunt with more compassion for the animal they're killing. The same theory that first nations people are credited with "honoring" their kills.

It may be a flawed theory and inconsistent perhaps. However it's better then nothing at all and the ban does send a message to the world, especially to Canadians, that people are aware of the brutality of the hunt and will support it by buying the products of the hunt.

It's not perfect but it's a start.

[Cher]

Darn! That should read "will NOT support it by NOT buying the products..."

[john Kelly]

So fox-hunting is OK, so long as we use spears, bows, and dress up in animal skins?

[mlrosty]

"The bill described commercial seal hunting as "inherently inhumane", particularly in Canada, drawing negative responses from the Canadian government. The bill did not mention or refer to any metrics that quantify the Canadian seal hunt as being any more inhumane than the accepted, legal slaughter of animals in the EU."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_hunting

[rv]

David -So what you're saying is you're in favour of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GGHgYbDmtM

[sackcloth and ashes]

No rv, it's called 'being consistent'. You either think seal hunting is cruel across the board, whether done by indigenous or white Canadians (which is what I think); or you think it's an acceptable means of making a living. You can't say (as Lucas does) that it's OK if a seal gets its skull caved in by an Inuit, but it isn't if whitey does the deed. It's right or it's wrong. You tolerate it or you oppose it. End of story.

And if that sounds unreasonable, try this one for size. Imagine saying that honour killings and female genital mutilation are OK because they're 'traditional'.

[David]

rv,

“So what you’re saying is you're in favour of this.”

As I said, I don’t have strong feelings about seal hunting one way or the other. It’s not something I fret about. If it were being done right in front of me, I’d probably find it revolting (assuming, that is, I wasn’t dependent on seal products or the sale of such). But that isn’t the issue, is it?

I’m just not sure what the basis of the pronounced distinction is. One group is scorned as indulging in something “dehumanising” and “barbaric,” while the other group is “keenly” exempted from similar disapproval and economic censure. But as I understand it, the aforementioned “indigenous peoples” - Inuit, Yupik, Saami, etc – use large picks to smash the seals’ skulls before exploiting the meat, fat and fur. Possibly there’s some great moral distinction to be made here, but as yet it’s not an obvious one, at least not to me. And it’s odd that the basis for a pointed moral distinction isn’t more clearly indicated.

[AntiCitizenOne]

> David -So what you're saying is you're in favour of this:

I am.

[JuliaM]

"Maybe "traditionally hunted" seal fur will become the new "must have". "

Over at Tim Worstall's, a commenter noted that he couldn't wait to see the market flooded with 'traditionally hunted' products. After all, how are they going to prevent it? Quotas?

"Darn! That should read "will NOT support it by NOT buying the products...""

No, no. You were right the first time. I'll certainly support it :)

"So fox-hunting is OK, so long as we use spears, bows, and dress up in animal skins?"

And say a prayer to its spirit afterwards, using the traditional sacrament of the stirrup cup :)

[jones]

sackcloth

Thanks for the address, I'm gonna send as considered an enquiry as I can without my contempt at the liberal self-hating shining through.I've almost reached the conclusion that these people are 'green' because they're scared the unwashed will consume all the goodies and deprive THEM of the benefits....A different elite set, thats all.Difficult for me to remain 'objective' and describe my feelings on these people cos the anger clouds my cognition!..I'm sure you can fill in the blanks mate.Again, ta.

Apologies for the delay I'm many time zones away and just got up!

[Horace Dunn]

I'm interested to learn that, as an Englishman, I belong to a nation of "animal lovers". Since that is the case, there is no need for a ban since none of my fellow countrymen, and countrywomen, would dream of buying the produces being described. Democracy in action.

[Q]

The International Whaling Commission sees a difference between the industrial-scale killing of thousands of whales by countries like Japan and the hunting of whales by the peoples of northern Canada who, at most, harpoon about a dozen whales per year.

What a bunch of goofballs, eh?

[morbo]

It seems to me that these sorts of complaints about animal welfare tend to come from suburbanites who've seen more Disney cartoons about nature than they have real life nature. Actual prolonged contact with nature tends to lead to the more realistic and natural view that projecting morality onto predator-prey relationships is absurd and unnatural.

[David]

Q,

“…who, at most, harpoon about a dozen whales per year.”

But is it simply a question of scale in this case? If so, the kind of moral argument being presented doesn’t seem entirely secure. Is it coherent to rail against something as “dehumanising” and “barbaric,” etc, while pointedly exempting some participants from such denunciation? If the argument were purely practical – in terms of stock repopulation or whatever – that might be a different issue. But there’s an awful lot of broad high-gear moralising, which makes the distinction puzzling. If seal hunting is so offensive and the sale of seal products so intolerable, why is it acceptable if the slaughter is done by “indigenous peoples”?

[apotheosis]

I'm indigenous to Earth, and as such I'll eat any damn thing I find here if it looks tasty and doesn't eat me first.

[Q]

David: While it certainly seems that Lucas is certainly being an idiot, I would imagine that what she is commenting upon was done with a logic similar to the IWC and the whales.

[Wm T Sherman]

How is this fiat a victory for democracy?

[Chris S]

I've always wondered what makes this particlar hunt "barbaric"? as opposed to say, fishing or beef cattle. Is it the method of demise? the scale? the animal in question? the non-indigenousness of some of the hunters?

or is it simply a matter of optics?

My favorite part of the video that RV posted was the discussion about the seal meat "I've been told seal meat isn't very tasty". Not an opinion "I don't find it tasty", or even a universal declaritive "it's not tasty", but rather simply that she's been told. No personal testing required, but full moral umbrage. I mean, they packed the meat with spices and onions!!! The horror.

I mean, in the name of all things pure and holy, why can't we just leave these poor creatures alone and let them simply decimate the fish stocks and then die of starvation en mass in a few years as nature intended? Barbarians I tells ya, barbarians.

[Ralph]

> How is this fiat a victory for democracy?

She's an MEP. Democracy has nothing to do with it.

[Rich Rostrom]

What I find really funny is that Dr. Lucas thinks seal hunting is bad because it's "barbaric... cruelty", but it's good if _barbarians_ do it. (OK, well, "savages". Or "primitives". Or "something".)

It's bad because it's civilized people behaving like, well, uncivilized people, but it's what the uncivilized are supposed to do (certainly not learn to behave like civilized people).

Maybe this is analogous to the human rights activists who excoriate Israel for causing civilian injuries, but celebrate the "resistance actions" of Hamas and Hezbollah.

[Spiny Norman]

"How is this fiat a victory for democracy?"

Oh, it's not, despite Lucas' pabulum. The European Parliament is intended to get around all that annoying, serfs-interfering-with-government "democratic" nonsense.