David Thompson
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January 17, 2015

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Anna

“I think that women of colour should speak first in class,” [gender and sexual resource centre outreach co-ordinator, Jude] Ashburn said

Fight! Fight! Fight!

TheTooner

I'll accept the "Women speak first" rule as long as there isn't a rule that I must attend or pretend to listen to them.

David

Fight! Fight! Fight!

Why, it’s almost as if neurotic Marxoid tribalism leads to discord. And if there’s one thing that tells women how intelligent and capable they are, it’s institutional condescension and penalties for being male.

Southpaw

Oh...and when do transgendered LGBT Specially Wheelchair Enabled (tm) females of color get to speak?

dw

And if there’s one thing that tells women how intelligent and capable they are, it’s institutional condescension and penalties for being male.

Funny how this kind of 'progress' sounds like something from two centuries ago.

JuliaM

I think Anna is onto something.

'Which is better, women, or women of colour? There's only one way to find out..'

Cue comedy!

sk60

[gender and sexual resource centre outreach co-ordinator, Jude] Ashburn said

There's your problem.

Lancastrian Oik

Where do the pre-op TS men committed to leading lives as women get to sit on this particular ideological starting grid? I mean, they still sound like blokes, and have the big feet and hands and everything.

It occurs to me that, on seeing at Dr. Haiven's online resumé, what she and her husband teach is not so much "Management" as "How To Respond To Being Managed, Especially In The Public Sector", or for those going on to work in industry, "Know Your Enemy".

David

Cue comedy!

And websites devoted to interracial radfem foxy-boxing.

Jason

'Which is better, women, or women of colour? There's only one way to find out..'

Two go in, one comes out. Thunderdome!

Jimmy

Poor womyn, forever the 'leaky tyre' of society.

Nikw211

If you listen very carefully, you can hear the sound of piles of good money being burnt somewhere.

seeing at Dr. Haiven's online resumé

Yes, I was rather taken aback to see that she taught management … but it turns out it's HR, so not quite the same thing though related obviously.

    Prior to becoming an academic, Judy was a factory worker, a journalist, an author, a documentary filmmaker and a management consultant.

Where ever did she find the time to do all these things? While most of us have varied careers these days, my bullshit detector went off when I saw the range of things she lists as having done in the past e.g. 'journalist' likely means writing for an in-house company news sheet - once.

ramspace

From my daughter's class on college culture, taught by a very earnest female instructor:
"Do you know what 'respect" means?" she asked.
The Russian exchange student replied laconically:
"Is when you pretend to listen even when is stupid."
My daughter fell off her chair laughing.

David

If you listen very carefully, you can hear the sound of piles of good money being burnt somewhere.

Ah, but my hearing is even more acute. I can actually hear the brain cells shrivelling inwards away from the skull.

AC1

I think the taboo about arriving late once the pointless formalities have happened will be broken...

"Sorry I'm late, are the men speaking yet? Oh I'll just get a coffee".

R. Sherman

If a professor would openly express such sentiments in a U.S. college, I would imagine there would be a Title IX complaint filed relatively quickly. Feminists are beginning to discover Title IX is a two edged sword. Surely our Canadian cousins have something similar.

Jeff Wood

I am sure I am not the only gentleman here who realised early that the most effective way to be thought fascinating, and get laid, was to let the girl do all the talking, and look interested.

virgil xenophon

RE: The Russian student. LOL, the Russians have always had a, shall we say, brutal directness about the reality of things..

virgil xenophon

PS: Or should I have been more diplomatic and substituted "unsubtle" for "brutal." :)

Joan

Though of course the professor means male students aren't allowed to speak first. Because gender condescension is the path to utopia.

I'd like to thank feminists... for making women look really f***ing stupid.

Ofay Cat

Well all I can say is I am really glad I am not a women. Many of them seem so screwed up... it's like they want to men but not really ... what a horrid way to do through life ... wishing you were a man, but not wanting to be an icky man. I think it's power they want.

Well, I love being a man and so do all the men I know .... we don't have all the manufactured problems of women. We are happier than women. We don't have groups and organization by the hundred to try to help us deal with being men. hahahahahaha

Chris N

I'm with Julia up top there, and because she's spoken first, I think it's ok now for my situational comedy:

A militant throwback lesbian Black Panther, an old WASPy academic feminist law professor, and a transgender activist named Pete all share the same apartment...

Sitting around, they produce nothing of value.

Episode 1: A mysterious letter arrived from Planet Marx...

Episode 2: Jerry arrives at the flat for a date. Hilarity ensues!

Episode 3: Threatened with eviction, all three must team up on Twitter to gin-up outrage and generate revenue...

Neil Roche

I prefer good news. One of the boys railroaded for allegedly driving the sweet flower of Cole Harbour to off herself has been given a year's probation for letting on to the village that Rehtaeh was the school slut. He is expected to be grateful. By now, sad to say, he probably is. Now he can start re-building his life.

Leah Parsons, of course, is still blaming everyone but herself for making a pig's ear of her daughter's upbringing.

http://huff.to/1IEqfBp

David

I’d like to thank feminists... for making women look really f***ing stupid.

That does seem to be a very common effect.

These stern and pious ladies appear to be confusing gender with temperament. For them, apparently, women are timid, delicate creatures who struggle to raise their hands and can’t quite master speech. In a cosseting environment where women are a majority.

Mags

I'm a woman and everyone has to shut up so I can speak.

D

Just yesterday some work colleagues were talking about some diversity thing they had to attend. Apparently they recommended that if you have team assignments, you should put all the women together. Some studies show they learn better that way, apparently, and presumably you can't trust the men to not be evil or something.

It's infuriating that people can simultaneously believe that:

1. Men and women are the same; any differences are socially constructed.

2. Any belief that women in general have different traits or tendencies, or discussion of what those might be, is sexist in the extreme.

3. Women should be put in groups with other women because they their learning style is different from men and they learn better that way.

Henry

We've gone as far as we can with this equality nonsense. It was always a fraud

Germaine Greer, last year apparently at something called "Femifest 2014"

(quite a revelation for a believer like me, and no mistake)

Watcher in the dark

I think those who can't speak should get to speak first. Should be entertaining to have a long, long silence at the start of proceedings.

Don

In some traditions, it is the less experienced members who speak first, so that they are not influenced by the statements of the more experienced. What kind of message is Prof. Haiven wishing to send?

Hal

Prior to becoming an academic, Judy was a factory worker, a journalist, an author, a documentary filmmaker and a management consultant.

Where ever did she find the time to do all these things?

You're not reading far enough between the lines . . .

. . . . Judy managed to get a job in a factory during a couple of summers when she was being an undergraduate, and in her off hours or at least the times when she wasn't getting paid, she did some random scribbling and wandered about with a camera, and . . . .

Yes, I was rather taken aback to see that she taught management … but it turns out it's HR, so not quite the same thing though related obviously.

Well, actually HR isn't even related to management, HR is merely standing in the same building and announcing Errrrrrrr, Ahhh . . . Yeah, you can hire that one if you want . . . . ---and then collecting a paycheck for saying that.

. . . . and thus again in the hours she wasn't getting paid for the real job in the factory, Judy also commented to someone she knew, about a project that she had heard of the someone being involved with, regarding what sort of people might be involved in working on the project---and the actual reality in that situation would have had the usual zero HR influence, where those actually working on the project would have been the ones getting the work done, with anyone else in the area just standing around and possibly trying to claim to be associated---especially if money was involved.

And then once she got past the undergrad years, she decided to stay out of the factory by continuing to show up at some school so that she could get to where she could get paid for having a bit of wallpaper with the words Doctor Of [Something Other Than Medical] printed on it, while also insisting that she be referred to as Doctor.

Isaac Asimov had a PhD in chemistry, and in the great mass of text that he wrote on just about everything, there is at least one comment that the number of times that he actually made use of Being A PhD was approximately one, (01), and where as far as I know, for everyone and all situations he was basically Isaac or mebbe Mr. Asimov---if not then Dr. Asimov-- and definitely far from reflexively Call Me Doctor . . . . . . . . . .

Mojo

Three hours? Look, David, I thing maybe you're missing the point of sending these people to places like Dal-whatever - so that WE DONT HAVE TO LISTEN TO THEIR FLOOD OF BULLSHIT. This purpose is obviated if you post their maudlin rambling on the inner webs.

David

Three hours?

No refunds. Credit note only.

james

We don't have groups and organization by the hundred

We only need one group.

The Patriarchy.

The local Chapter is meeting tonight, so I must be off.

alec

Germaine Greer, last year apparently at something called "Femifest 2014"

You do realise Germaine Greer is really just Barry Humphries. Sort of an anti-Sir Les Patterson character. Getting a bit tired though.

dicentra

My problem in life is that I usually DO speak up first, often imprudently: a real-life Hermione Granger without the wand.

I was raised sarcastic, and my arid delivery is honed to such perfection that people often cannot tell whether I'm joking.

To such a degree that what I thought was an obviously over-the-top Tweet was featured on Dana Loesch's "hate mail" segment on The BlazeTV on Friday.

Earlier on her show they'd been joking about fatwas, then she mentioned "Little Debbie HoHos," so I Tweeted this, thinking it would register as Just Plain Silly.

Nope. I was excoriated for having a stupid handle and a cute little flower avatar and her panel hadn't heard the term "kuffr."

Ah well. I'll take it as evidence that her trolls and hate-mailers are so awful they cannot be parodied.

Some years back, I was goofing around on the live UStream feed for the Hugh Hewitt show, making what I thought were parodies of left-wing arguments. I thought I was being obvious enough — a lot of the regular participants knew I was joking, but other people didn't catch on and became genuinely distressed. (I've since left that forum, being made unwelcome for my tendency to express ideas in no uncertain terms while everyone else just wants to ask how the kids are doing.)

I'm baffled by people's misreadings of my intent more than anything. Here I think I'm being obvious, but then I find out everyone else is tuned into that strange channel I never seem to pick up, and next thing I know they're all offended and I'm being frog-marched off the property and asked never to return.

Quint&Jessel, Sea of Azof, Bly, UK

So friggin' Victorian. "Let the ladies go first!" Idiots.

Spiny Norman

Happens to me in real life, di. I once had an on-again, off-again girlfriend who had as weird a sense of humor as I did -- we both were ask to leave the party more than once.

Spiny Norman

"asked"

(Since this is a UK blog, "humour"...)

Nate Whilk

' "Let the ladies go first!" Idiots.'

Posted by: Quint&Jessel, Sea of Azof, Bly, UK | January 18, 2015 at 03:35

"Women and children first!" But, in this case, I repeat myself.

Jake

Haiven’s idea was met by a round of applause,

That's the scary bit.

David

That’s the scary bit.

Women’s Studies does tend to attract dogmatic mediocrities and the subject isn’t exactly known for its factual reliability or intellectual rigour. So it’s entirely possible the applause is sincere, and it’s possible some of panellists believe the bollocks they mouth, even the supposed need for women to always speak first in a female-majority environment. But it may just be the case that the panellists are desperate to find excuses for their own rather disreputable academic positions, their own status and salaries, and for being on a panel in front of credulous teenagers while pretending to be more clever and essential than they actually are.

Watcher in the dark

"Haiven’s idea was met by a round of applause"

Yeah, that would the lesser-recognised category of applause which is in fact polite way of saying "Enough already! Stop there! No more!"

RNB

Google 'Poes' Law.'

AC1

Google Blair's Law instead

Marilyn

Hello from Typepad

David

Thanks, Marilyn. Seems to be working fine now.

AC1

Winner of PC victimhood poker to go first?

DensityDuck

To reply to an earlier comment: most purestrain feminists absolutely detest transgender people. They see it as men moving into yet another women's space.

Hal

Winner of PC victimhood poker to go first?

Only if you've got the cards and the playing rules.

JSRoberts

"Women should be heard first in the classroom"

Insane. Next thing you know, feminists will demand they always enter the room first, while a man holds the door.

Gregoryno6

Those with an appetite for self-harm - thanks, but I'll stick to my bad diet and excessive time on the computer.

Crazed Weevil

Insane. Next thing you know, feminists will demand they always enter the room first, while a man holds the door.

I thought we weren't allowed to hold doors open any more...you know because we would be oppressing them with our superior door holding skills or something.

blackmamba

My mother, a fellow academic in Halifax, (where Dalhousie University is located), emailed me: "Judy Haiven is a very vocal anti-Israeli Jew. A year or so ago, she chased me down a street downtown because she observed me making a face at an apparition in a body bag (ie – a niqab). Scolded the hell out of me."

svh

it’s possible some of panellists believe the bollocks they mouth, even the supposed need for women to always speak first in a female-majority environment. But it may just be the case that the panellists are desperate to find excuses for their own rather disreputable academic positions, their own status and salaries, and for being on a panel in front of credulous teenagers while pretending to be more clever and essential than they actually are.

That.

David

That.

Well, even with standards as low as those found in Women’s Studies programmes, you do have to wonder how a supposed intellectual – a professional thinker - can insist on the following, apparently in earnest:

On television interviews, on platforms and political meetings, at any presentations — if there’s no woman speaker, then the event does not take place.

By which the professor means, such gatherings should not be permitted.

As you can see in the video, she’s quite emphatic on this point. Unsurprisingly, Professor Haivan is keen on banning things and on punishing people who say things of which she doesn’t approve, and which she casually conflates with acts of violence.

And this professional thinker, this intellectual titan, can denounce the evils of an alleged male “monopoly” in an environment where women generally outnumber men by quite some margin, and while sitting on a panel with no male participants, and with no-one willing to argue a substantively different view. Apparently, if a panel of any size, on any subject, doesn’t include a female speaker then the outcome is “foregone” and therefore invalid. Yet strangely, this doesn’t apply when a panel is exclusively female and wildly question-begging.

Such is the Clown Quarter of modern academia.

Em

Good to have you back, Mr T. Also I found out what the button does. :-)

Nikw211

and while sitting on a panel with no male participants,

I think when some people use the word 'equality' they actually mean 'retribution'.

Men should be quiet during sessions of restorative justice, while they pay penance for the wrongs done by unrelated people in far distant times and places.

Nikw211

As you can see in the video, …

Oh my word but there's some stupid right there. She says of any group at the university:

    where one or more of the members has sexually assaulted, verbally assaulted, sent out Tweets, anything misogynistic at all, these people get banned from the university … for 6 months.

So a Tweet is as serious a threat as an actual sexual assault? And the punishment for a sexual assault is a six month an from the university, but not a referral to the police?

The most unnerving part of this is that you know somewhere she understands that a Tweet is a form of sexual assault.

Good God, can you imagine what her Teddy bear picnics show trials were like when she was a little girl? They must have been terrifying.

Nikw211

"a six month ban" even

David

Good God, can you imagine what her Teddy bear picnics show trials were like when she was a little girl? They must have been terrifying.

Among the women I know who find feminism unappealing, a common explanation is that, aside from its irrelevance to their lives, it seems to attract an extraordinary number of people who are dogmatic and obnoxious.

TDK

Re: Hal

Well, actually HR isn't even related to management, HR is merely standing in the same building and announcing Errrrrrrr, Ahhh . . . Yeah, you can hire that one if you want . . . . ---and then collecting a paycheck for saying that.

Erm....that isn't HR.

It was explained to me thus:

Employees assume HR exists to help people like them. No! HR exists to protect the company from the employees: to make sure there are no possible avenues for an employee to sue the employer.

Jonathan Levy

I'm just glad the first comment on the post was by a woman, otherwise I couldn't have read the rest.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Judy Haiven is a very vocal anti-Israeli Jew.

You cannot imagine my surprise.

Ray

TDK

HR was explained to me as "You know that purchasing's job is to screw the best possible deal out of suppliers? HR's job is to do that to you."

David

Also I found out what the button does.

Thanks, Em. Appreciated.

Henry

In a cosseting environment where women are a majority

Evidently not cosseting enough. Nor a big enough majority

David

You cannot imagine my surprise.

Isn’t it strange how ‘radical’ so often means ‘hackneyed’, ‘predictable’ and ‘utterly conformist’?

Rob

For people who are supposedly strong, confident and free, feminists do spend an awful lot of time whinging about fuck all.

dicentra

feminists do spend an awful lot of time whinging about fuck all.

Stops them having to deal with actual misogyny in actually dangerous parts of the world.

If they gave half a rip about women qua women, they'd be leading the largest anti-sex-slavery crusade on the planet, including stings, rescue ops, stringent legislation, and awareness out the wazoo.

Instead, such endeavors are left to a bunch of Mormon men with special-ops training who go to Colombia, Dominican Republic, and other dark places in the Americas to bust American and European businessmen who attend exotic parties with pre-pubescent brown girls and boys, some of whom were sold into slavery by their own parents.

But the kids are various shades of BROWN, so it's not like they're REAL kids, amirite?

David

For people who are supposedly strong, confident and free, feminists do spend an awful lot of time whinging about fuck all.

As Kristian Niemietz pointed out a while ago, dogmatic feminists and other “social justice” warriors tend to be ideologically insatiable - impossible to please - because, despite their egalitarian pretensions, they’re fixated by social status and a need to be superior:

A positional good is a good that people acquire to signal where they stand in a social hierarchy; it is acquired in order to set oneself apart from others. Positional goods therefore have a peculiar property: the utility their consumers derive from them is inversely related to the number of people who can access them… PC-brigadiers behave exactly like owners of a positional good who panic because wider availability of that good threatens their social status. The PC brigade has been highly successful in creating new social taboos, but their success is their very problem. Moral superiority is a prime example of a positional good, because we cannot all be morally superior to each other. Once you have successfully exorcised a word or an opinion, how do you differentiate yourself from others now? You need new things to be outraged about, new ways of asserting your imagined moral superiority.

And so the goalposts of oppression have to be moved continually and ever-rarer forms of injustice have to be conjured into being. Hyperbole and distortion are inevitable. It’s not exactly a recipe for realism, or moral proportion, or honesty, or happiness, but that isn’t typically what drives such people. They require perpetual drama, with themselves in the spotlight.

dicentra

it seems to attract an extraordinary number of people who are dogmatic and obnoxious.

Except for noted troll Shanley, who's been exposed by her former mentor as charming and discreet.

Her mentor being a gentle, modest White Supremacist, so we know he's trustworthy.

Nikw211

Moral superiority is a prime example of someone applying the positional good [ … ] how do you differentiate yourself from others now? You need new things to be outraged about, new ways of asserting your imagined moral superiority.

That.

That with bells on.

Also this, which must be an outstanding example of the positional good. While it may not be new, it is nevertheless suddenly re-orienting the map, as it were, so that certain people can appear to have always been on the highest peaks of moral goodness, pitying the poor shlubs below.

Of course no one wants to see small children suffering or being maimed or killed; but my complaint is about the unbearable smugness of those who would consider it acceptable to decry the visceral responses of others to the Charlie Hebdo killings as somehow superficial and ersatz, a here today gone tomorrow media-inspired hysteria while they know what it means to truly feel.

Very aggravating.

Jason

So a Tweet is as serious a threat as an actual sexual assault? And the punishment for a sexual assault is a six month ban from the university, but not a referral to the police?

I'm reminded of this, possibly apocryphal exchange:

Gentlemen, what is the penalty for rebellion?

Death.

And what is the penalty for being late to the muster?

Death.

Gentlemen, we're already late...

Greg Allan

"Such is the Clown Quarter of modern academia."

Would that it were only a quarter.

Microbillionaire

Jason: While the specific exchange may be apocryphal, the event definitely happened. It was the Dazexiang Uprising during the Qin Dynasty of China, in which a pair of army officers decided they might as well defect with their army and try fighting for freedom rather than meekly show up late and be executed for lateness.

Safesearch Off

I don't see the problem. A man can't correct a woman's errors of fact and logic unless she speaks first.

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