David Thompson
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April 13, 2016

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Anna

insists that feminists such as herself “absolutely, without a doubt, do not hate men,”

Yeah, that never happens.

Charlie Suet

There is a general unwillingness amongst the professional bloviators that clog newspapers and comment sites to admit that any criticism is valid at all. "Never read the comments", they smirk to one another on Twitter.

There's a sort of pattern that often seems to emerge:

1 Columnist writes asinine bollocks about subject they don't understand, for the 'edification' of people they don't know.
2 Columnist is greeted by a mix of casual abuse, irritation and reasoned criticism by people who know what they're talking about
3 Columnist repairs to Twitter, to agree with other columnists about how awful the common herd is.
4 Moderators delete the comments indiscriminately, happy that the advertising revenue is secured.

David

There’s a sort of pattern that often seems to emerge

Absolutely. The Guardian is of course famous for its moderators deleting perfectly civil comments that happen to disprove or throw into doubt the premise of an article. If you’ve ever watched them being purged in real time, as it happens, it’s quite extraordinary. Likewise, the construal of factual correction or mild mockery as “sexist abuse” and therefore warranting immediate deletion.

Ms Valenti has voiced her disdain for readers’ feedback on more than one occasion, as when claiming that, by giving people the ability to publicly reply to her pronouncements, “comments uphold power structures instead of subverting them.” And that therefore, “for writers, wading into comments doesn’t make a lot of sense.” Because if readers are continually having to correct you on points of fact and logic, or pointing out contradictions, or just voicing their bewilderment at what you’ve asserted, this tends to dent one’s ego and almost certainly constitutes misogyny.

Atempdog

"Imagine going to work every day and walking through a gauntlet"

Imagine there's no Guardian
It's easy if you try

Charlie Suet

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/23/kesha-benefit-claimant-women-burden-proving-rape

This was my favourite Graun comment piece recently. It's oddly nice when the mask slips. You'll notice that a lot of comments have been disappeared without proper explanation.

I think insults would have to be really quite serious to outweigh the nastiness of Pascoe's worldview, personally. But that's just me.

Lancastrian Oik

Raedwald has a helpful guide to Graun moderating policy.

Lancastrian Oik

That's weird. The link appears to be dead, yet if you click on the masthead, the "guest post" is at the top of the page.

Oswald Thake

A bunch of daft bints spouting rubbish.

David

Link fixed.

SimonF

Off topic but this Spiked Podcast about spaces and what can be done about them is quite good.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/universities-should-be-dangerous-spaces/18234#.Vw4X4kd01iY

David

Raedwald has a helpful guide to Graun moderating policy.

It does rather capture the flavour of the place - and the fact that irate and crass comments tend to be aimed at articles by advocates of the most unhinged and obnoxious identity politics, and which are themselves quite vile and very often bigoted. As, for instance, when Aisha Mirza sneered at “white PPL” as some homogeneous and menacing racist mass and bemoaned the “psychic burden” of living among people whose skin is paler than hers, and which, she insists, is worse than being mugged.

In fact, Ms Mirza’s article was so obnoxious and factually inaccurate, even by Guardian standards, that it had to be quietly edited, retitled and in large part rewritten by the paper’s editors. None of which made Ms Mirza any more congenial. Instead, she tweeted her disdain for any readers who found her article wanting, especially those who dared to correct her on points of basic fact, and whom she dismissed en masse as ignorant and beneath contempt. While congratulating herself on not bothering to read any of the lengthier, more serious rebuttals, Ms Mirza tweeted, rather triumphantly, “The only praise or criticism that matters is that from fellow people of colour.”

And this kind of self-satisfied bigotry is pretty much a staple of the Guardian comment pages.

David Taylor

Wow David, your last couple of posts have upped the grump factor :) Bad week?

The Sydney Morning Herald's Daily Life section has become a feminist haven and now moving into queer territory too. Which would be fine if there was equal representation for cis white males. But that would be silly.

David

That said, it was quite entertaining to watch the moderators busily deleting dozens of comments that complained about Ms Mirza’s racial bigotry, and then deleting comments that complained about those comments being deleted.

Being a pious Guardianista is so much work.

David

Wow David, your last couple of posts have upped the grump factor :) Bad week?

Grumpy? Lord, no. It’s actually been a good week so far.

This is me having fun.

Joan

@David Taylor

I always picture David writing with a cruel smile. And stroking a white cat.

Burnsie

Of course they don't hate men. At least not some men:

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2006/09/bill-clinton-lunching-with-bloggers.html

That's Jessica in front of Bubba doing her best to make sure the former sex-predator-in-chief doesn't miss her assets.

Stuck-Record

One of my Internet rules makes online life very simple and easy to understand.

I do not read any site that does not allow BTL comments. Period. No exceptions.

If your argument cannot stand the test of people – who may very well know more than you – it is automatically suspect, and not worth reading. Ignorance is a terrible thing. Those of us with enquiring minds are DELIGHTED to be corrected. It pains me to find out that I had the wrong facts, or misunderstood something. I'm thrilled to get the correct info.

For instance. My 'Friends' on Facebook are constantly posting bullshit urban myths. Each time I simply paste a link to Snopes that shows them to be false. I always check every 'too good to be true' post. It takes 30 seconds.

Most people are angry at me. Most passively. Some overtly. They are ANGRY to find out that something they believed to be true is false. But they're angry at me – not at the person who shared it with them, or created the meme.

I'm done with people like that.

David

I do not read any site that does not allow BTL comments.

Someone recently said they found it charming that I interact with you lot, the heathen rabble. But it’s always struck me as an important part of blogging - it’s entertaining and quite often I learn something new. There’s also the fact that by interacting, debating, you get to bring your own thoughts into focus. Which is why the threads are often much more interesting than the posts, which I think of as starting points, not full stops.

dan

I can't believe this hasn't surfaced in the English-speaking blog world:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/12/world/europe/jan-bohmermann-erdogan-neo-magazin-royale.html?smid=pl-share

The original, "milder" offensive video about Erdogan is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYfDSh09x9M

Erdogan wants Merkel to prosecute a German comedian for insulting him.

dan

The video is in German though!

pst314

"Imagine going to work every day and walking through a gauntlet of 100 people saying 'You’re stupid,' 'You’re terrible,' 'You suck,'..."

Wasn't it Guardian writer Cory Doctorow who defended leftist protest tactics that included violence, harassment and intimidation of all those "bourgeois" people who are so unenlightened that they persist in going to work every day?

dan

Imagine going to work every day and walking through a gauntlet of 100 people saying 'You’re stupid,' 'You’re terrible,' 'You suck,'.

If it was me and it was happening every day -maybe I'm just insecure- but I would start wondering whether I should listen to them.

R. Sherman

@Dan et al.

I was thinking the same thing. Name another occupation--other than Democrat Party Office Holder--where the consumers constantly tell you your product or service sucks, but you are nonetheless able to keep your job. What is it about a byline that makes someone's opinions so much more noteworthy than anyone else's?

R. Sherman

I always picture David writing with a cruel smile. And stroking a white cat. . .

. . .while sitting on a throne of skulls.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Name another occupation--other than Democrat Party Office Holder--where the consumers constantly tell you your product or service sucks, but you are nonetheless able to keep your job.

Republican Party Office Holder, not to be confused with a genuine conservative office holder.

David

If it was me and it was happening every day -maybe I’m just insecure- but I would start wondering whether I should listen to them.

Well, when the readers’ feedback includes quite detailed rebuttals and corrections of basic fact, you’d think so. But airy dismissal of any dissent is another Guardian staple, especially when the subject involves the Holy Trinity of race, class and gender.

In 2007, the paper’s then-deputy comment editor Joseph Harker famously accused his own readers of being ignorant and racist because some of them dared to disagree with his assertion that “all white people are racist” and his belief that “as a black man… I cannot be racist.” Such was his indignation at not being deferred to unanimously, he wrote, rather tetchily: “If we want to have a sensible discussion about race, or racism… do we need to find a new corner of cyberspace, and boldly go where no stupid white man has gone before?”

And so Mr Harker’s solution to encountering unexpected disagreement was to yearn for a different venue and a more sympathetic audience, one ideally all brown, rather than attempting to present a more convincing argument.

Readers may also recall Mike Power, a Guardian contributor who rails heroically against the Great Barbecue Patriarchy and who finds men’s grill-side chat “oppressively penetrating.” When readers made fun of his implausible delicacy, his wild assertions and feeble grasp of history, Mr Power chose not to reply to any of the many rebuttals, even the very detailed and civil ones. Instead, he retreated to Twitter, where he announced, again triumphantly, “Anyone would think I touched a nerve.” And so, in his mind, the avalanche of correction was somehow a validation of his own daring and brilliance.

This is not an everyday level of vanity.

WTP

What Farnsworth said. While the bulk of this problem is on the left, there has always been an element of such on the right. From the patrician Such-Things-Are-Simply-Not-Done George Will to certain pockets in what is often pejoratively referred to as fly over country. I blame the cultural taboo that started in the late 60's/early 70's (US anyway) of never discussing politics or religion. Consequently when people did discuss such, they only did so in their own balkanized echo chambers. People simply don't know how to handle differences of opinion without going full Godwin by the third volley. Jack Welch had a great article on LinkedIn about this:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/go-ahead-talk-politics-work-jack-welch

What amuses me most, as usual, are the pearl-clutching comments from many, mostly HR types. Such thoughts are simply not to be thought.

WTP

Damn, that's stupid...meant to say "such thoughts are simply not to be spoken." Broke something there between brain and keyboard.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Such thoughts are simply not to be thought.

These days, that is equally correct.

Twisted Root

Damn, that's stupid...meant to say "such thoughts are simply not to be spoken."

Quite unnecessary self-flagellation.

R. Sherman

@ Farnsworth & WTP

I stand humbly corrected, consent to and second the amendment.

Sam Duncan

“Imagine going to work every day and walking through a gauntlet of 100 people saying “You’re stupid,” “You’re terrible,” “You suck,” “I can’t believe you get paid for this.” It’s a terrible way to go to work.”

Okay. Let's do that. If a plumber or an accountant has 100 people outside his place of work yelling criticism at him, he's probably going to be out of work pretty sharpish. Because if you've got a hundred of your customers telling you your work is no good, there's a pretty good chance that your work is no good.

But, as David says, if your business is thought and words, why not talk to them? It's hard to escape the impression that Guardian writers are scared they might be persuaded to abandon their beliefs.

mojo

Mixing with the hoi-polloi, David? Tsk tsk.

"Out here on the perimeter there are no stars
Out here we is stoned, immaculate."

David

It’s hard to escape the impression that Guardian writers are scared they might be persuaded to abandon their beliefs.

Which makes me wonder whether some of them actually believe their beliefs, as it were. I mean, does Mr Power really believe that the amiable chat of a summer barbecue is oppressively penetrating and that the sight of men gathered around a grill - cooking for friends and neighbours, people they care about - that this sight is “ugly” and “really drains the joy from the summer breeze”? Is that a real conviction, something a sane person might hold as self-evident, or is it just a bit of posturing to signal his leftist piety?

And if it’s all affectation, all this uptight disapproval, to signal his elevation above the likes of thee and me, then how sane is that?

Lancastrian Oik

More Graun, in which Paul Mason argues the case for recolonisation of British dependencies, and offers Florence under the Medicis as a prototype for a socially just society. He does, honest.

PiperPaul

"makes me wonder whether some of them actually believe their beliefs"

"The followers of a mass movement see themselves on the march with drums beating and colors flying. They are participators in a soul-stirring drama played to a vast audience--generations gone and generations yet to come. They are made to feel they are not their real selves but actors playing a role, and they're doing a "performance", rather than as the real thing."
The True Believer
Eric Hoffer
1951

sk60

This...

https://twitter.com/thirdwavefem/status/720208881599647744

Click through the screengrabs. :-)

David

This...

Heh. Well, quite.

Ooh. Must dash. In-laws coming for dinner.

Fuel Filter

I do love it so when you pile on Valenti.

bgates

Imagine going to work every day and walking through a gauntlet of 100 people saying “You’re stupid,” “You’re terrible,” “You suck,”

Sounds awful. I wouldn't like hearing such things either. Fortunately, since I'm a straight white classical liberal American man, as long as I avoid tv, most of the internet, universities, movies made within my parents' lifetime, the occasional Social Justice Warrior tech talk, and conversations with the majority of my coworkers and a small but vocal contingent among my family and friends, I'm all set.

banner

Amusing that one of the reasons given for deletion of comments is ad hominem attacks on the article authors. Yet this wretched 'interview' of Maajid Nawaz by former Comment is Free editor David Shariatmadari is still on the site:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/02/maajid-nawaz-how-a-former-islamist-became-david-camerons-anti-extremism-adviser

The more experienced staff at the Grauniad have pulled Shariatmadari up on it:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/09/anonymous-pejorative-quotes-should-be-used-only-in-exceptional-cases

But still no correction on the original article.

The vile Connie St. Louis piece demanding that people stop defending Tim Hunt is still live:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/23/stop-defending-tim-hunt-brian-cox-richard-dawkins

So much for a less abusive internet, the shitbags.

Henry

The Guardian is of course famous for its moderators deleting perfectly civil comments that happen to disprove or throw into doubt the premise of an article. If you’ve ever watched them being purged in real time, as it happens, it’s quite extraordinary

Alas I have watched CiF "moderation" as it happens. It was a puzzling and infuriating experience - & then you can read their glib, meaningless assurances when asked how they define "trolling", "off-topic", "derailing", or "abuse" for the purposes of moderation.

I think it would be well worth people taking screenshots of their CiF comments - in context - especially if said comments happen to be mildly critical of feminists, or of the Guardian itself. If for/after screenshots of the deletions were published, people could decide for themselves whether the offending comments were truly hate-speech (whatever that means) or just robust criticism or justified mockery

David Taylor

Unrelated, but something I was wondering about this morning. Why do both terms 'lesbian' and 'gay' get used? Why is there not a single term, say 'homosexual' used for this? Why do female (or female... identifying, is that the right term?) homosexuals distinguish themselves from male/male identifying homosexuals. Or is this a patriarchial distinction? Perhaps it allows cis white males to avoid homosexual porn involving homosexual males more easily?

I don't know if it is a patriarchal oppression, or a feminist freedom. Someone tell me!

rabbit

Actually moderation at The Guardian is pretty good. It generally keeps things passably civil.

Except for articles on feminism. Then any comment, no matter how polite, restrained, and factual, is in danger of being moderated if it disagrees with the article. This is in direct contravention of their written policies.

Do they have special moderators for feminists articles? Is the author allowed to make moderation decisions? How does it work?

rabbit

I notice that Jessica Valenti's articles are now often hidden away on The Guardian. They are no longer front and centre on the Opinion page for days at a time. It's as if she has been relegated.

Bill Elder

"sexist, racist, sundry other SJW epithets reflexively hurled - the great excuse for personal and intellectual failure

dan

Perhaps it allows cis white males to avoid homosexual porn involving homosexual males more easily?

Hey, it helps those on 'both sides of the fence' to get down to business more quickly. Quicker to type as well. I don't see it as a problem.

jones

it's going to be sheer bliss for her if the sharia merchants get their way.

Rafi

If a plumber or an accountant has 100 people outside his place of work yelling criticism at him, he's probably going to be out of work pretty sharpish. Because if you've got a hundred of your customers telling you your work is no good, there's a pretty good chance that your work is no good.

Being a better writer/thinker is hard. Being a 'victim' is easy.

David

They are participators in a soul-stirring drama played to a vast audience--generations gone and generations yet to come. They are made to feel they are not their real selves but actors playing a role, and they're doing a “performance”, rather than as the real thing.

Which may explain this example of leftist theatre, which combines Maoist psychodrama with amateur dramatics. The chunky woman near the front is visibly acting, and not terribly well. Which makes me think the alleged political mission is largely an excuse for an urge to be obnoxious and exert power over others, which I’m sure is quite real.

Patrick Brown

One of the many traditional gender roles that feminism has made little attempt at dismantling is the one that says gentlemen must watch what they say when there are ladies present. Criticising or contradicting a woman in public is still, after however many decades of feminism, an unforgivable social faux pas. Criticising or contradicting a man in public has never been, because men are expected to be able to take it.

If a man writes something so idiotic it gets universally ridiculed below the line, like, say, Peter Jones' classic about the meerkats in the insurance ads being racist, he never writes for the Guardian again and nobody feels the slightest bit sorry for him, quite rightly. But treating women equally to men on the impeccably feminist Guardian will simply not be tolerated.

And it goes way beyond the Guardian. The sainted Anita Sarkeesian appeared before the UN to talk about "cyber-violence", and complained about being told "you're a liar" and "you suck". I very much doubt what was done to Tim Hunt was even mentioned.

Tim Newman

What amuses me most, as usual, are the pearl-clutching comments from many, mostly HR types.

Indeed, great link! I'd not seen that.

mojo

In case you haven't snorted and chuckled at it yet, Ace brings the quality snark:

It's time to restart the draft, whether we need these assholes or not. Of course we don't need them. They would be useless in the field. I'm not even suggesting giving them real weapons.

Just give them some fucking sticks and drop them into Syria.

Time to toughen up, Buttercups. Time to learn that the world is hard and has no room for the weak and stupid.

Ok, so maybe it's a little strong.

David

The spam filter is being jittery again. If anyone has trouble with comments not appearing, email me and I’ll shake them free.

PiperPaul

Hoffer's True Believers explains a lot of the nonsense that's going on today. And it was written over a decade before I was born!

Try this quote. There are more at the link above, but I recommend reading the book itself:

The quality of ideas seems to play a minor role in mass movement leadership. What counts is the arrogant gesture, the complete disregard of the opinion of others, the singlehanded defiance of the world.
― Eric Hoffer, The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements

SumDumGuy

"[1 of 6] To see if men and women were treated differently by commenters, we began by classifying the authors of the articles by gender."

Gigglesnort

I wonder how many of their authors fainted straight away when that decision was made.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Meanwhile back at the sanitarium, adultism rears its ugly head.

Adultism Defined

Woven into that employee’s warning to me was the belief that by virtue of my age, I couldn’t be trusted to know what was right or best for me.

This is adultism – the power and privileging of adulthood over youth – defined.

Later that same day...

No, the individuals working within these institutions [schools, etc.] aren’t all bad. Nor are the intentions of the institutions themselves.

The trouble is that they are built on the adultist assumption that a 14-year-old can’t inherently know their own developmental needs.

The bastards ! Someone with more experience and knowledge thinking they know more.

Meanwhile, down the hall...

Adults Just Don’t Understand: Checking Out Our Everyday Adultism...

Adultism can be a form of abuse against children, however accidental, unintentional, or well-intentioned...

Everyone of these nitwits generating solutions in search of a problem at Everyday Feminism needs to be in a home for the terminally confused, and their computers connected to nothing so that that cannot harm themselves or others.

David

To see if men and women were treated differently by commenters, we began by classifying the authors of the articles by gender.

Apparently it’s beyond the scope of their imaginations to consider the possibility that, as groups, male and female Guardian pundits may tend towards differing subject matter, as is in fact the case, with women (and minorities of either sex) being more likely to regurgitate fatuous identity politics, and thus attract ridicule.

Lancastrian Oik

From that EF link:

"I vividly remember the way the bookstore employee warily looked over her glasses at me.

Honey, you’re way too young for this book.

Seventeen years old and holding a copy of "She’s Come Undone" in my hands, I gave the employee a stony glare back.

What exactly is it you think you know about my life?

She knew that she was an adult, and I was a young person. And that was all she needed to know".

Now, I haven't read the book in question; however, I have just read the synopsis, noted that it was an Oprah Book Club choice and checked out some contemporaneous reviews, and that was all I needed to know.

And that's how I came to imagine what the bookshop assistant was really thinking:

Oh honey- don't waste your money on that pile of horseshit.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Apparently it’s beyond the scope of their imaginations to consider the possibility that, as groups, male and female Guardian pundits may tend towards differing subject matter...

Even to consider that would be misogynistic mansplaining, or something. Thoughtcrime, regardless.

Patrick Brown

"Apparently it’s beyond the scope of their imaginations to consider the possibility that..."

... or that we are vastly more protective of women's feelings than men's, and so moderators will likely moderate responses to an article written by a woman more proactively than one written by a man. If you're using the number of comments moderated as an indicator of who's getting the most abuse, that's going to to skew it.

David

or that we are vastly more protective of women’s feelings than men’s

That too. The methodology is so flawed, and the conclusions to be arrived at so clearly predetermined, I doubt actual thinking played much part.

ac1

"Imagine going to work every day and walking through a gauntlet of 100 people saying 'You’re stupid,' 'You’re terrible,' 'You suck,'..."

I'm very glad she's agreed with Mrs Thatcher about Fly picketing.

ac1

"classifying the authors of the articles by gender"

How sexist!

rabbit

And here's the latest offering from Valenti

Valenti complains that she has the most moderated comments of any Guardian writer, and says she shouldn't have to put up with this sort of thing.

As I mentioned above, moderation on The Guardian is actually quite good... except for articles on feminism, where the moderation can be extraordinarily aggressive. Perfectly polite and well-thought-out comments get removed by the hundreds because they have the wrong viewpoint.

Valenti, or course, is oblivious to this. If comments were removed well then they just must have been abusive.

David

Valenti, or course, is oblivious to this.

And so much else.

Predictably, Ms Valenti makes no attempt to fathom whether the degree of reader hostility corresponds with any particular type of idiocy or identitarian obnoxiousness being published by the Guardian; she merely notes that the targets are often “women or people of colour.” (The assumption being that no female or minority Guardian contributor could possibly write such offensive bollocks that quite a few people feel obliged to reply in an equally insulting way. See, for example, Aisha Mirza and Joseph Harker, upthread.)

Also predictable is her repeated and rather sly blurring of “rape threats” with “snide remarks” and even – horror! - “disdain,” as if little distinction should be made between actionable behaviour and expressions of ridicule. In terms of her calibre as a thinker, it doesn’t bode well. Nor does her claim that unflattering reader feedback in general – including, presumably, those expressions of disdain – constitutes a “workplace harassment issue.” In fact, it helps explain why Ms Valenti is a common object of mockery.

[ Added: ]

It’s rather like how Laurie Penny repeatedly frames disdain for her personally - as a self-styled communist and radical feminist who says she wants to destroy the family unit and topple capitalism - with a hatred of womankind. As if she were the glorious embodiment of half the planet’s population and that therefore a reluctance to take her seriously were in and of itself proof of a seething misogyny. Maybe Laurie should ponder why it is that other, much more talented female writers – say, Heather Mac Donald – aren’t mocked on a daily basis for what they say and write.

Jason

"classifying the authors of the articles by gender"

How sexist!

Shouldn't that be "genderist"?

rabbit

David:

The striking thing about Valenti and other feminists at The Guardian is the trivialities that they wallow in. They will go on for ages about how stores sell basically the same razors for women as for men, just pink-coloured and 10% more expensive. This, apparently, is the very heart and soul of oppression.

It is particularly perverse given that feminism is desperately needed today. Women are treated like chattel in many Islamic countries. Rape and slavery are tactics of war in equatorial Africa. Honour killings are still customary in parts of India and Pakistan. Even in England, they uncovered a massive prostitution ring in Rochdale involving rape and underage girls.

But you will seldom hear from Valenti on these critical subjects. Her silence betrays the very people she professes to defend, choosing instead to write on inane first world problems. And when readers correctly criticize her for this, she claims she's the victims.

David

The striking thing about Valenti and other feminists at The Guardian is the trivialities that they wallow in… And when readers correctly criticize her for this, she claims she’s the victim.

I doubt it’s occurred to Ms Valenti that much of the animosity and ridicule she bemoans arises because she and her peers seem, for want of a better term, morally decadent. There’s an absurd, often grotesque failure of moral proportion, and with it a level of self-involvement that approaches narcissism. Set against real oppression, real patriarchy – easily found overseas – their preoccupation with trivial or entirely imaginary slights - from “sweat shaming” to the alleged politics of toddler excrement - arouse a kind of disgust.

Lovernios X

"They will go on for ages about how stores sell basically the same razors for women as for men, just pink-coloured and 10% more expensive"

If that were the case, smart women would merely buy the "men's razors" saving 10%. If enough women do this then the pink razors will not net a profit and won't stay in the market.

R. Sherman

@ Lovernios X

If that were the case, smart women would merely buy the "men's razors" saving 10%. If enough women do this then the pink razors will not net a profit and won't stay in the market.

Damn you and your logic and knowledge of economics. Damn you to hell!

[Smiley Thing]

rabbit
If that were the case, smart women would merely buy the "men's razors" saving 10%. If enough women do this then the pink razors will not net a profit and won't stay in the market.

Researchers have apparently shown that women are on average less price-sensitive than men, and in particular will pay more for reassuring brands and packaging.

The solution, you would think, would be to make women better and more informed consumers. Quit reading Cosmo and start reading Consumer Report.

Trevor

The Bubbafly Effect

banner

Actually moderation at The Guardian is pretty good. It generally keeps things passably civil.

Except for articles on feminism.

What about Islamism? The mods delete like crazy on threads about islamism. So critical of articles about islamism have many commenters become that the Guardian announced it would not be opening many to comments in the future.

rabbit

Banner:

They used to delete like crazy on threads about Islam. For example, you could not say something like "Islamic fundamentalism is the greatest threat to global security today." I know because I tried a few times.

But they've loosened up lately, perhaps because of the terrorist attacks in France and Belgium. That may have been enough to penetrate even The Guardian's thick noggin.

You may be right about having fewer Islamic articles allowing comments, but that's true for every kind of article. The Guardian is losing money at a ferocious rate, and I suspect they haven't the money to moderate too many articles at once.

Rob

Who bothers to read the articles? I just read the comments.

banner

Oh no rabbit, the mods are still very active on articles about islamism.

For instance try pointing out that the islamists in Iran turned their attention to leftists soon after they seized power.

But they have amended their strategy on islamism - as their desperate attempts to discredit "What British Muslims really Think" are proving.

Bobby

I urge you to read this article on the Guardian in GQ magazine, it is remarkable

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/guardian-editor-alan-rusbridger-rupert-murdoch

Basically, they are losing £50 million a year, the money they made from selling publishing titles expecting it to keep them afloat eternally is on its way to being wiped out due to their profligacy. Its a delightful read! The whole newspaper is loaded with hubris and arrogance unbounded. They live in a bubble disconnected from reality, they live a life of disdain for the masses, insulated by their money, but even that is not going to last long.

banner

They're not entirely out of touch with reality - hence why they're so desperate to reshape reality to suit their worldview.

Their attempts to discredit the Phillips documentary are quite bizarre.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/14/what-british-muslims-really-think-about-channel-4s-show

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/15/channel-4-islamophobic-bandwagon-british-muslims

The second link contains this gem:

When I agreed to be interviewed by Trevor Phillips and his team for this production, my aim was to refute the bizarre and divisive survey the documentary was built around.

So he agreed to be interviewed in order to discredit a survey despite presumably being unfamiliar with its findings.

BTL is revealing too - hordes of Guardianista dipshits seriously complaining that if the poll is supposed to be representative they should have been contacted.

I've noticed that a lot of people on Harry's Place have noted that the trend in BTL commenting has been towards increased criticism of the Guardian. Hardly surprising that the likes of idiots such as Valenti are trying to imply that the thousands upon of thousands of comments deleted from their mediocre articles are abusive and/or threatening.

bobby

I'm not sure when it happened but at a certain points the Guardian readers reached tipping point and became overwhelmingly hostile to them on issues around Islam. I believe this new policy for comments was created to snuff that out.

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