David Thompson
Subscribe
Blog powered by Typepad

« Friday Ephemera | Main | Reheated (47) »

August 20, 2016

Comments

David

Via Damian Counsell and somewhat related: On feminism as humblebrag.

Or, “I hate it when men keep telling me that my hair is awesome and that I’m incredibly pretty. Curse the Patriarchy.”

Fred the Fourth

june (shoe) can write my rants anytime. and she ends it

so here's my message:
people, don't stop complimenting people. compliments brighten people's days, even LIVES. who knows how shit that persons day or life is. who knows if they're going to go home and put a gun in their mouth that night. jesus christ. DO NOT STOP BEING NICE.

Pretty awesome.

Anna

“I hate it when men keep telling me that my hair is awesome and that I’m incredibly pretty. Curse the Patriarchy.”

Stop RAPING ME with your compliments!

David

Remember, Laurie tells us, quite emphatically, that she “fights constantly” for her “looks not to matter.” And she does this while taking and sharing endless selfies and publicity shots, which, apparently, are terribly political. In Laurie’s mind, your attempts to look pleasing merely signal your “submission” to capitalism and a “slavish adherence” to patriarchal control. But Laurie’s own grooming, with co-ordinated nails and hair colouring, piercings, tattoos, jaunty hat collection, etc., – all of that signals her liberation from such things.

But this is someone who rails against how some ladies choose to adorn their bodies - on grounds that pubic glitter betrays all womanhood – while also insisting that not judging other women’s genital decoration is a radical feminist statement.

Theophrastus

How, I wonder, do you become "accidentally" more attractive? Break your wrists so that you can't pick your nose, perhaps? In any event, I wonder if this tweet is an indication that Laurie is having some patriarchal problems in one of her polyamorous relationships.

David

How, I wonder, do you become “accidentally” more attractive?

I think she’s letting us know that she isn’t trying to look more attractive. Because that would be bad. What with the Patriarchy and all.

Ten

It's a business. Because the whole thing is a construct to earn one's living using the tools of social media and a low level road show circuit, such as it may be. The narcissistic part included, or rather, enabled by the narcissistic part because that sells if you make it entertaining.

No rule says you can't lack evident wonder or awe, tenderness or affection, humility or light - lack connection to what a Rumi was on about, for example - and not make the money for costumes, fares, coffee, and selfie-sticks.

What an dead-boring irony. Penny is a businesswoman. She's a capitalist.

Hal

. . . and not make the money for costumes, fares, coffee, and . . . . .

. . . and there's a reason the more correct term is . . . narcisstick.

Ten

Then comes this:

You're not supposed to talk about it- just wait for men to decide how attractive, and therefore how worthy of human dignity, you are.

...a code for feminism has empowered me to not have the stamina to appreciate the sorts of casual appreciations even a Las Vegas waitress could appreciate from a random normal person. Because I'm so fragile that in my world all positive attention from a guy is an attack, my world being about stridently not seeing the vagaries of sex and gender.

Well, I'll give her the fact that by now culture is pretty damned depraved, but even seeing everything as depraved is more a mark of enormous fragility and defensive snobbery than it is the wholesome maturity of our waitress, for example, who has the courage and self regard to go out there every day, work for tips, still find a way to like people, and thusly, appreciate herself and her femininity and those she encounters who do too.

We call these friends.

Jimmy

Because I'm so fragile that in my world all positive attention from a guy is an attack, my world being about stridently not seeing the vagaries of sex and gender.

Just imagine living a life where every utterance, glance, image, sign, sound and/or film are all forms of encoded power that structure all of society in terms of dominance and submission. That's what it's like to live in penny's head (assuming she's sincere about even half of what she says). Or perhaps she's just a quintessentially shallow, narcissistic, dishonest, money grubbing "btw buy my book" poseur.

NielsR

...yet it's a game she insists on playing, rather than getting on with meaningful things. how very strange.

Jonathan

I'm a man. A woman once said something nice to me. It was about 30 years ago.

Get over yourselves feminists.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

...yet it's a game she insists on playing, rather than getting on with meaningful things. how very strange.

Not really, undertaking meaningful things requires both effort and risk, whereas she exists comfortably simply spouting the boilerplate to her mutual congratulation society and pretending that makes her a "revolutionary".

WTP

Does anyone else here have past life experience living or schooling among the extremely religious? The virtue signaling, the holier-than-thou, the Puritanism. Whenever these virtue signaling events occur among SJW's and such I'm reminded of the people I used to know who prided themselves on the ability to quote scripture chapter and verse for any occasion that presented itself, making much of their own piety and purity. And then even more so when they themselves fell to the level of the unwashed, like this guy and similar.

I also see a similar pattern in the True Conservative/#NEVERTRUMPers and True Libertarian types in the US political scene. A favorite HL Mencken quote of mine is "Puritanism is that nagging fear that someone, somewhere might be happy."

R. Sherman

On the Feminist Humblebrag, I recall something my mother told me when I was a little kid: "If someone compliments you, the proper response is 'Thank you'...But don't let it go to your head."

Theophrastus

"I think she’s letting us know that she isn’t trying to look more attractive. Because that would be bad."

Quite so. And she doesn't understand the difference between 'accidentally' and 'unintentionally'.

Ten

The virtue signaling, the holier-than-thou, the Puritanism.

Three paragraphs from the wiki:

“Religion is a collection of belief systems, cultural systems, and worldviews that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values. Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe. They tend to derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle from their ideas about the cosmos and human nature. According to some estimates, there are roughly 4,200 religions in the world.

“Many religions may have organized behaviors, clergy, a definition of what constitutes adherence or membership, holy places, and scriptures. The practice of a religion may also include rituals, sermons, commemoration or veneration a god or gods, sacrifices, festivals, feasts, trance, initiations, funerary services, matrimonial services, meditation, prayer, music, art, dance, public service or other aspects of human culture. Religions may also contain mythology.

“The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system; however, in the words of Émile Durkheim, religion differs from private belief in that it is “something eminently social”. A global 2012 poll reports that 59% of the world’s population is religious, 23% are not religious, and 13% are atheists.”

Similar text substituting “progressivism” for each instance of religion and editing for continuity:

Progressivism is a collection of belief systems, cultural systems, and a worldview that relate humanity to an ersatz spirituality and, frequently, to approved, collective moral values. Progressivism has narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred revised histories that are intended to give meaning to life and to explain the origin of life or the universe. It tends to derive morality, ethics, political laws and a preferred lifestyle from its ideas about the cosmos and human nature. According to its own efforts and definitions, there is one predominant progressive school of Progressivism in the world. It has infiltrated both of the two major political classes in the United States.

Progressivism has organized behaviors, an academic ‘clergy’, a definition of what constitutes adherence or membership, sacred values, and political scriptures. The practice of Progressivism may also include social rituals, political sermons, commemoration or veneration of Jesus figures, social sacrifice, race or gender studies and accreditation, central education, retirement and medical programs, festivals, parades and demonstrations, initiations, matrimonial services, environmental meditation or prayer, music, art, dance, public service or other aspects of human culture. Progressivism may also contain mythology.

The word Progressivism is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system; however, in the view of many, Progressivism differs from private belief in that it is eminently socialistic, which is to say collective and statist, intolerant and forceful, judgemental and hypocritical. Polls report that roughly 20% of the nation’s population self-identifies as Progressive, 40% as moderate, and 40% as conservative.

Hedgehog

I think you are all unfair to PennyRed. Not that she doesn't richly deserve it. But I see her as an insecure young woman (Note to David: there is insecure and insecure; PennyRed's case is the bad kind), deeply starved for attention, resentful of her perceived lack of attractiveness and determined to reinforce it through such things as self-mutilation in an utterly conventional teenage protest at the demands that she thinks are being placed on her. She probably had (or still has) an overbearing mother whom she deems to be more attractive than she is and a father who she feels neglected her as a child, and now she tries to compensate by denigrating everything that she would like to have and cannot attain because of her own perceived shortcomings. Hence the polyamory, the ostentatious rejection of bourgeois values such as marriage and stability, the professed hatred of everything and everybody outside of her small circle of like-minded "rebels" against society. And now she somehow is subjected to a compliment or maybe just an appreciative gaze from a normal-looking man and she feels at the same time flattered and unsure how to deal with the pleasure that she feels since it goes against everything she has tried so hard to tell herself that she is immune to.

I just think that she is stuck in adolescence, unfortunately way past the sell-by date for this type of behavior.

On second thought, you're not unfair to her.

Hedgehog

Ten: Brilliant.

L

But this is someone who rails against how some ladies choose to adorn their bodies - on grounds that pubic glitter betrays all womanhood – while also insisting that not judging other women’s genital decoration is a radical feminist statement.

You're going to sprain something parsing LP's contradictions.

Tim Newman

In any event, I wonder if this tweet is an indication that Laurie is having some patriarchal problems in one of her polyamorous relationships.

I expect some poor sap has fallen for her and asked her for exclusivity. At a guess, he'll make pyjama boy look like Victor Matfield.

David

You’re going to sprain something parsing LP’s contradictions.

But Laurie has so much to teach us.

dearieme

She'll miss it when she finds that no one gives her the glad eye again.

Patrick Brown

WTP: "Does anyone else here have past life experience living or schooling among the extremely religious? The virtue signaling, the holier-than-thou, the Puritanism. Whenever these virtue signaling events occur among SJW's and such I'm reminded of the people I used to know who prided themselves on the ability to quote scripture chapter and verse for any occasion that presented itself, making much of their own piety and purity."

The phrase "whited sepulchres" keeps coming irresistably to mind.

The Guardian's problem page yesterday was from a 22 year old girl who's just finished university and finds her family "casually sexist" and keeps scolding them, but her mother tells her to give over because she preaches too much. She sounds exactly like a born-again Christian who can't understand why everybody she knows isn't as excited by Jesus as she is, and thinks they're all going to hell.

Ten

The phrase "whited sepulchres" keeps coming irresistably to mind.

The late M. Scott Peck drew a memorable and incontrovertable parallel between mental dysfunction and phariseeism, and conversely, between mental health and its relentless pursuit of truth no matter the cost, as he rightly put it. Which tends to diminish - or even abolish - ego.

Ergo, narcissism is dishonest, obviously, where eventually dishonesty can't but logically out itself.

Being separated into two distinct eras doesn't separate ancient nutjobism from contemporary nutjobism, or in the present case, bad religion from Progressivism. Nor do the semantics of how they were or are labeled.

Farnsworth M. Muldoon

Meanwhile in the land of the perpetually aggrieved, the hashtag, firstsevenjobs is a way to disguise your privilege.

But what really bothers me about #firstsevenjobs is the ideology it reflects. #Firstsevenjobs promotes the ideal, as old as America, of the self-made man who creates his own destiny through hard work.

Those bastards. Ah, I remember fondly those halcyon days of my privilege tarring driveways and being a valet parking attendant.

Allow me to illustrate by listing my first seven jobs: babysitter, tutor, prep cook, library assistant, print syndication assistant, cookbook author assistant, and editorial assistant (at Slate)...But this list doesn’t tell you that I went to an Ivy League school [that rather explains a lot about her main malfunction] and graduated without debt, since my parents were able and willing to pay for my tuition.

OK, got it, white girl feel guilty for an easy ride, wants you to feel guilty too, regardless of your circumstances. The politics of envy and spite.

Darleen

The politics of envy and spite

Add to that, the deep and abiding sense that The Other cannot make it on his/her own, so, in order to be virtuous, one must become The Other's champion, because, the poor dears, are incapable of taking care of themselves.

David Davis

Oh dear. What are all those things all over that boy's head, including the blackish furry stuff??

Ten

The inimitable one D. Burge on privilege-disguising.

And on the parentals.

BackwardsBoy

"Attractive?" That's what that is?
I really should get out more. Oh wait, on second thought, perhaps not.

sk60

What's the betting this didn't happen?

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/766716436165365760

David

What’s the betting this didn’t happen?

If we were to take Laurie’s statements at face value, as true, you’d have to assume that she associates with an uncommon concentration of inexplicably rude and obnoxious men, to a degree that’s rather implausible. But as we’ve seen many times, when someone says to Laurie, “You’ve said something stupid,” she generally – almost always – construes this as that person actually meaning, “All woman are stupid.” Which isn’t the same thing at all.

Though the latter offers more scope for further arch pronouncements and, not incidentally, is a little more flattering. And so Laurie would have us believe that she’s treated dismissively simply because she’s a woman, or an outspoken woman, rather than because she’s someone who says an extraordinary number of stupid things.

Spiny Norman

Ten,

The followup:

David Burge ‏@iowahawkblog

Serious question, @Slate: have you ever employed anyone who didn't attend a prep school or tony suburban HS?

Anonymous Anonymizer @JonathanLingo

of course not...why do you think they feel so guilty about their lives and privilege?

David Burge @iowahawkblog

That's just it. Slate's staff looks at each other & sees dim overprivileged rich white kids, and assume this is everywhere.

This last one seems to be frequent topic of discussion in these pages. Dear Penny's daily travails, especially.

Spiny Norman

Dear Ms Penny's, I should say.

>_<

Hal

The virtue signaling, the holier-than-thou, the Puritanism.

Three paragraphs from the wiki:

What I've been noticing is the absolute gulf between faith and religion.

The religious will and do operate from I Know That . . . but also will have the awareness that someone else may not have that certainty, so the most generally useful way of operation will then involve seeing what someone else thinks, seeing what may work when proposing to do something, Etc.

It's those who Have Faith who launch into demanding that All Must Be Ideologically Pure . . . and thus the assorted branches of Xtianity that started entire wars, the assorted branches of Islam that do start entire wars, and for a well documented as equal variety of faith, the assorted branches of Marxism . . . .

---Oh, my, Hoxhaism does seem to be modeled after the the People's Front Of Judea . . . .

dicentra

It's those who Have Faith who launch into demanding that All Must Be Ideologically Pure . . . and thus the assorted branches of Xtianity that started entire wars

All war is waged to settle one question and one question only. Who is in charge of this land: Us or Them?

The US/THEM dividing line can be religious belief, but it can also be language, ethnicity, geography, loyalty to a claimant to the throne, theory of governance, or any issue over which Who's in charge? can be fought.

The European wars between Catholic and Protestant were NOT over doctrinal points but over who should rule: the Pope or the local Protestant monarch? People were motivated to wage war because a Catholic monarch made sure Protestants were excluded, persecuted, and powerless, and the reverse was also true.

How many religious sects are in the United States? Hundreds? And yet we have NEVER had a religious war, for the simple reason that political power is not tied up with churches or religions: a Methodist in the White House cannot dictate how Catholics or Mormons perform baptisms nor, do non-Methodists find themselves ineligible for elected office, discriminated against in hiring or housing, or at risk of imprisonment for heresy (read: being a political enemy of the ruler).

That silly little tale about people fighting over which end of the egg to crack first is absolutely fallacious: people may argue—heatedly—over such things but war never starts until one side attempts to exercise power over the other. Missing from the story is the moment the narrow-enders attempt to ban cracking the egg at the broad end.

Saying that religious fervor causes war is as nonsensical as asserting that language or geography or skin color causes it.

The desire of one group to rule over another is what causes war: not differences of opinion over deity.

Ted S., Catskill Mtns., NY, USA

I find it hard to believe any man would even want to talk to Laurie.

A part of me thought about tweeting that in reply to her, but I don't feel like getting banned.

Ted S., Catskill Mtns., NY, USA
How many religious sects are in the United States? Hundreds? And yet we have NEVER had a religious war,

Well, the Mormons ended up in Utah because they were persecuted out of every place else, sometimes violently. And then they turned around and massacred non-Mormons.

Ted S., Catskill Mtns., NY, USA

And part of the drive for public education was to keep the Catholic immigrants from sending their kids to parochial schools.

Ten

What I've been noticing is the absolute gulf between faith and religion. [...] It's those who Have Faith who launch into demanding that All Must Be Ideologically Pure . . . and thus the assorted branches of Xtianity that started entire wars...

Ah, faith. Aside from what it really is and what it may constitute or mean, capital F Faith is also a religious construct, as in, by faith shall ye be saved, etc. It's become the most important noun in the canon and catechism but somehow nobody knows what it is.

FWIW, I doubt one person on earth can say what value faith has in the sense of Christian salvation - of God's ultimate rule - or how faith can avoid being a work if it's consciously wielded as the key to heaven, which it largely is. Nobody I know can answer that, and I know I can't.

This is a matter for theology, and theology is a battlefield, one of sects and splinters and schisms so that's got to be a clue and not a very positive one. We don't war for religion but we fight for theology and still there's no clarity.

R. Sherman

@Ted

And part of the drive for public education was to keep the Catholic immigrants from sending their kids to parochial schools.

Actually, parochial schools, existed long before the current, Horace Mann Prussian Model system took shape. It did so because those who were neither Catholic or Lutheran wanted a high school system for the rest of the populace. Of course, until the '50s, the public schools supported a sort of generic Protestantism. But nobody got shot for it.

Well, the Mormons ended up in Utah because they were persecuted out of every place else, sometimes violently.

True. However, the reason for the violence was that Joseph Smith advocated complete control over the geographical area populated by Mormons. In Missouri, especially, he was quite vocal about it.

Nate Whilk

David wrote,

But as we’ve seen many times, when someone says to Laurie, “You’ve said something stupid,” she generally – almost always – construes this as that person actually meaning, “All woman are stupid.”

Maybe that's because all the women she personally knows agree with what she said. I'm not sure what to think of that.

Gregoryno6

The phrase 'followed, quite promptly, by this' will trigger panic attacks forevermore. My psyche has been seared beyond repair.
And that's AFTER Person Penny became 'more conventionally attractive'?

Tim Newman

If we were to take Laurie’s statements at face value, as true, you’d have to assume that she associates with an uncommon concentration of inexplicably rude and obnoxious men, to a degree that’s rather implausible.

I dunno. I can imagine the circles in which she mixes contains just that: a concentration of rude and obnoxious people.

David

I dunno. I can imagine the circles in which she mixes contains just that: a concentration of rude and obnoxious people.

Heh. Well, yes, she does seem to value being needlessly obnoxious as a kind of credential.

But as so often, it’s a strange sequence of ideas. Laurie tells us that she’s quit smoking (because) and has apparently taken up exercise. As a result of this, she is, she says, “accidentally becoming more conventionally attractive.” Because that happens overnight. Not that she cares about such things, you understand. And apparently it turns out that this near-instantaneous and involuntary transformation into a conventionally attractive person has “unexpected downsides,” in that men now “always” talk over her as if she’s not there, which is further proof that the patriarchy is determined to crush her either way, pretty or not.

(Incidentally, this comment contained a typo, now corrected. I’d accidentally written, “Laurie tells us that she’s quite smoking.”)

Tim Newman

Laurie tells us that she’s quit smoking (because) and has apparently taken up exercise. As a result of this, she is, she says, “accidentally becoming more conventionally attractive.”

I have a hard time believing this, too. Okay, if exercise has given her a better body than before this would be true, and she might find more men approaching her. But if you're meeting people in person, attractiveness becomes a combination of various factors, not least of which are personality and friendliness and not being batshit crazy or simply damned annoying. I am struggling to believe that Laurie has become noticeably more attractive for those interacting with her simply because she's shed a couple of kgs and firmed her ass up a bit.

David

I am struggling to believe that Laurie has become noticeably more attractive for those interacting with her simply because she’s shed a couple of kgs and firmed her ass up a bit.

Bear in mind this is a very recent development, a work in progress, so I’m not sure how much ass-firming could have taken place. And as you say, there’s still the issue of Laurie’s delightful, unpretentious, totally non-dogmatic personality.

comatus

Nose-picking may be a universal right, but doing it with the thumb is White Privilege personified.

R. Sherman

Am I to understand this the "before" photo then?

R. Sherman

And no, I did not image search Google for "Laurie Penny's bum" for purposes of this thread.

Spiny Norman

Laurie Penny's bum

{o_O}

She might very well have a shapely bum, but I frankly don't care. Her grotesquely obnoxious personality is so repellent, her physical appearance (as opposed to her juvenile and outlandish fashion sense) never crosses my mind.

Farnsworth M. Muldoon

Am I to understand this the "before" photo then?

"Speaking earlier on BBC Breakfast" - that was shown during breakfast - those BBC programmers are some cruel, cruel people.

brinster

Instead of complimenting, how about this: Your choices of makeup, fashion and the tonsorial arts make you look like a crack whore. Or this: Excuse me, you just stopped my watch; care to put a little distance between us? Maybe this: You just made me lose my lunch.
Make someone happy. Stop dishing out compliments.

dicentra

Well, the Mormons ended up in Utah because they were persecuted out of every place else, sometimes violently. And then they turned around and massacred non-Mormons.

(a) You're talking about my ancestors; (b) Your observation doesn't refute my point in the least.

The mobs chased the Mormons out of the country at gunpoint because my ancestors kept gathering in one place—Kirtland OH, Jackson County MO, Nauvoo, IL—and tended to all vote the same. The locals felt that their votes were being snuffed out by a bunch of heretical weirdos, and so the Mormons were harassed out of their homes over the question of who was to be in charge of the place.

As far as the Mountain Meadows massacre, that was ONE horrific incident, not a trend nor a practice nor a doctrine. The folks passing through had engaged in fighting words in Cedar City, threatening the local Mormons with official violence from the U.S. army (not an idle threat, given that they'd come after us before), and so the locals went off to the camp in Mountain Meadows a few days later to "settle things."

In other words, that incident isn't an example of a war over religious doctrine but Yet Another Attempt to settle the question of "who's in charge of this place," with the US and THEM breaking along religious lines.

Most of U.S. history in the West consists of wars over jurisdiction between Europeans and Natives. Does being a "redskin" or "paleface" cause war? Or does the desire to rule over THEM cause it?

Hal

Most of U.S. history in the West consists of wars over jurisdiction between Europeans and Natives.

Or, Natives and Europeans.

Or, . . . .

Fay

I don't understand how anyone can spend so much time out of their day obsessing about how they feel, how they feel men think they feel, how they think capitalists think they feel, how they feel the patriarchy think they feel. FFS, get a job. A real one. So much navel gazing...oy vey.

Could she be any more insignificant or boring.

Watcher in the dark

I like that there was a 'main thing' she discovered which suggests that there are 'minor things' too about this revelation. I know it's only twatter and limited, but she could tell us what the lesser revelations are.

Maybe it is using adverbs like 'accidentally'

Shiggz

Parsing error _ Penny, Laurie - line *

The comments to this entry are closed.

For Amazon US use this link .

Your filthy consumerism supports this blog.

Blogroll