Pantomime

Speaking of sociology and its clown school connotations:

I will gladly sow gender confusion in kids. It’s my duty to.

So says Colin Cremin, a sociology lecturer who uses the workplace - and his colleagues and students - in order to indulge his transvestite kink:  

While I’m delighted to contribute to the breaking down of hetero-fascist biases, this was not the principal reason I started dressing to work as a woman. No doubt to the disappointment of colleagues in sociology, I never suffered from being born into the wrong gender… I dress as a woman because I like wearing women’s clothes. I like the look of the westernised feminine aesthetic. I like the feel of the silky fabrics on my body. I like the process of selecting outfits, matching up jewellery and shoes and putting on makeup.

And apparently all that fetishistic cosplay really needs an audience, preferably an involuntary one, during office hours. How terribly selfless.

Via Theophrastus.

Comments

[David]

“Good morning, class.”

[Pogonip]

Attention whores are the bane of modern life.

[Triumphant Ape]

I guess he missed the fact that the "westernized feminine aesthetic" was geared to please hetero-fascist (men I assume).

[WTP]

Nothing new. I recall Thanksgiving some 10-15 years ago, the Macy's parade had Mrs. Clause played by the absolutely fabulous Harvey Firestein. No one was disturbed by this. With one exception...

[R. Sherman]

#Appropriaton

[David]

Attention whores are the bane of modern life.

Dr Cremin doesn’t seem to grasp, or isn’t willing to admit, that the issue needn’t be transvestism per se. It could, for instance, be more about his apparent need for public transgression – to, as he puts it, “sow gender confusion in kids” - and what that desire reveals about his character. I hate to sound prim, but if I were – God help me – a sociology student, I’m not sure I’d be reassured by the fact that my lecturer felt entitled to use the classroom as a venue for his transvestite fetish. It does rather suggest a pathological level of self-involvement, and raises a suspicion that the students may find themselves playing captive audience to some personal psychodrama.

It reminds me of the militant nudists mentioned here a few years ago.

[Monty James]

Opening paragraph from the article:

"When I hear stories of enraged parents like Nigel Rowe, 44, and his wife Sally, 42, who removed their six-year-old son from an unnamed school after a male classmate was allowed to attend the primary school in a dress, it makes me wonder what some parents must think about me."

They think you're mentally ill, and would rather the children they carefully raised had nothing to do with you. They think about the good old days when it was possible to get a creature like you removed from a position of influence upon the young.

Did you really need that explained to you, or were you simply gloating, Dr. Cremin?

[David]

or were you simply gloating, Dr. Cremin?

That.

[David]

Dr Cremin is interviewed, rather fawningly, here. He now claims to be “gender fluid.” Which I suppose is edgier than middle-aged transvestite.

[Farnsworth M Muldoon]

However, while 7 per cent agreed with the statement ‘What a clever way to sow gender confusion in hundreds of children at once’, nobody agreed with the statement ‘It’s good to break down hetero-fascist biases.’

A normal person would have taken a clue from that, and "hetero-fascist", seriously ? I am sure I have said it before, these buffoons are so predictably trite.

[Sporkatus]

Too much to ask that a teacher indulging in fetishistic cosplay would be the fit and female S&M sort, I suppose. French maids also Right Out.

[Spiny Norman]

“Good morning, class.”

I don't think this Mr Garrison character is "confusing" anyone.

[Sporkatus]

He now claims to be “gender fluid.”

Is the gender sort of a mineral kind, compatible with Dexron/Mercon? It's a right bastard to take the tranny to the shop for not knowing what to top them up with.

[Spiny Norman]

From the militant nudists post:

Re Mr. Tim Redmond and his unconcern for his daughter's psychic welfare: as a former child who grew up in a previous Age of Aquarius, I can tell you now that a lot of stuff that adults did really grossed me out, but as I knew my opinion was not welcome, I too retreated from possible parental disapprobation behind my books, the door to my bedroom, and a carefully fostered air of "whatever." And that was in the Seventies, which now seem from this distance to be a time of innocence and respectability. Children are marvelously adaptable indeed, but that doesn't mean they'll adapt in a way you like.

Posted by: Andrea Harris

Like I said, the kids aren't "confused", they're grossed out and annoyed.

(Whatever happened to Andrea? Her Spleenville blog went dark almost 5 years ago, and her Twitter page seems to be gone. I miss her snark. When she was the Admin/Mod at the old TimBlair.net blog, she was hilarious.)

[Monty James]

Agree with you about Andrea Harris, Norman. I enjoyed what she wrote, Spleenville was a regular read of mine. I went to the militant nudist post to see if she had posted anything else, and realized that it was one which I had posted the link in a comment on Rachel Lucas' old blog. I don't know if you remember Rachel, she was amusing.

Anyway, I hadn't been commenting on blog posts for very long, and was a little ignorant of the etiquette involved. Several people were a bit peeved with me for not including 'NSFW'. I know better now, but that embarrassment was how I learned.

[Lisboeta]

Pah. He's not even doing dresses stylishly. "Men wore silk dresses at Vivienne Westwood’s show, puff-sleeved gowns at Charles Jeffrey Loverboy, and hooped floor-length skirts at Edward Crutchley’s". If it's makeup, lipstick and tights that he wants, there's always the corps de ballet -- although that requires a damn sight more hard work than being a sociology lecturer.

[Jon]

Rachel still posts on Facebook, but it's exclusively dog posts. Her dog is adorable, so I don't mind.

[Spiny Norman]

Monty,

I know better now, but that embarrassment was how I learned.

Oh, it's happened to all of us, I imagine. I had a bit of a "trial by fire": the first place I posted regularly was Fark.com around 2001 (when I first adopted this handle because someone else had "Dinsdale"). The regulars were pretty ruthless in their abuse of naïve newbies (like me). It used to be pretty free-wheeling and mostly non-political, but around 2004 it veered heavily left (as did a lot of other old-school user-generated humor sites). Blame George W Bush, I suppose...

[Jamie MacMaster]

Damned if you do, and damned if you don't, eh?

I mean, just by leaving this comment, I'm contributing in a small way to the attention this pathetic creature seeks.

[Richard Cranium]

Why, it's practically Creminal!

The door's over there? Why are you telling me that?

[David]

The door’s over there? Why are you telling me that?

Don’t worry about your coat. We’ll mail it to you.

[David]

I don’t think this Mr Garrison character is “confusing” anyone.

Dr Cremin, who is “partnered with a woman,” doesn’t “think there is any intrinsic gender.”

[Spiny Norman]

...doesn’t “think there is any intrinsic gender.”

Ah! I take it back. There IS someone confused... Dr Cremin.

[David]

“You’re looking at my legs, aren’t you? My silky, stockinged legs.”

[sH2]

LOL

[Adam]

Gender fluid. Ugh! I just had lunch.

[Fred the Fourth]

Rachel and Andrea. Good times.
Btw if you haven't read Rachel's description of her visit to Auschwitz, you should make time for it. Sorry, I have no link.

[David]

LOL

We do seem to have ventured into League of Gentlemen territory.

Which, on refection, happens quite a lot.

[Spiny Norman]

o_O

The self-absorbed and pretentious twit has earned mockery, but do we deserve this? Have we been naughty?

[Monty James]

We must have done something. David is stern, but just. He wouldn't trip the tranny trigger without cause.

[Pst314]

"the breaking down of hetero-fascist biases"

Once again, someone using "fascist" in a way that strips it of all meaning.

[Pst314]

He now claims to be “gender fluid.”

Incontinent?

[PiperPaul]

"Once again, someone using "fascist" in a way that strips it of all meaning."

Prog mission accomplished.

[Pogonip]

That picture made me think of Halloween (can't imagine why). Is Halloween observed across the pond? Do you have trick-or-treating?

[Farnsworth M. Muldoon]

“You’re looking at my legs, aren’t you? My silky, stockinged legs.”

Yes, that and the early onset male pattern baldness which just screams "feminine".

[Pogonip]

Actually, females can suffer from male pattern baldness. Ask me how I know. Fortunately it's just thinning of the hair rather than naked scalp (usually) but enough cases are bad enough that we keep the wig companies in business.

[Farnsworth M. Muldoon]

Actually, females can suffer from male pattern baldness.

Not to get too pedantic, but the pattern of female hair loss is midline extending laterally and, as you describe, usually just thinning, whereas male is anterior to posterior with or without separate crown or posterior involvement, and the loss is generally total. Treatment success rate for women using minoxidil is less than 25%, regardless of silky stockings.

[QuintAmpersandJessel]

That guy just oozes smugness.

[dicentra]

Random question for those on the east side of the pond:

Why did moving The Great British Bake-Off from the Beeb to Channel 4 cause Mary, Mel & Sue to decline to renew? Is there something about Channel 4 that makes it less worthy of such talent?

[pst314]

"That guy just oozes smugness."

Better put down some protective covers for the furniture.

[Pogonip]

Minoxidil didn't work for me.

[champ]

Doesn't he/she/zir know that white women are evil?

https://thebodyisnotanapology.com/magazine/the-cowardice-of-white-women/

[Theophrastus]

Dr Cremin is spoilt for choice when he needs to relieve himself of his gender fluids:

https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/on-campus/student-support/personal-support/lgbti-students/unisex-toilets-on-campus.html

[David]

Another interview with Dr Cremin here:

He doesn’t even want to “pass as a woman” when he dresses like one. He wants to be seen as obviously a man in a dress, in a deliberate challenge to the social norm. “By not ‘passing’, I draw attention to the fact that gender is a fluid concept,” he said.

Again, note the need to attract attention. And the conceit that a bit of unconvincing drag will somehow shake the world.

[David]

And another. In which we learn that the occasional “sideways look” is why Dr Cremin “needs to do it,” i.e., needs to continue his unconvincing drag act, thereby attracting more of those occasional sideways looks. The plan seems to be that fetishistic frock-wearing will eventually topple the Patriarchy. And capitalism, presumably.

[David]

One more:

I had to make do with a costume-making book that recommended borrowing a pair of tights from your mother to wear as part of a superhero costume. My eight-year-old male friend and I had no interest in superheroes, but the book gave us the excuse to ask his mother for some tights and to wear them openly – instead of in secret as we had previously done.

So again, it’s basically the rationalisation of a fetish, an excuse for being slightly broken. And that sound you hear is the Patriarchy creaking under the pressure of it all.

[Clam]

I draw attention to the fact that gender is a fluid concept,” he said.

Not for most of us.

[David]

Not for most of us.

Yes, it’s quite a bold claim. But despite being told, endlessly, that gender is fluid, I can’t offhand think of a single friend or family member who displays any obvious fluidity in their gender identity. They all seem quite content in their respective maleness and femaleness.

Last year, at a big family barbecue, I was introduced to a young man, a friend of my niece, who was wearing a loud dress and claimed to be gender fluid. He seemed keen to shock the rubes and attract those sideways glances mentioned upthread, and did attract some, briefly. Then people just got on with having a good time. And the fact that he was the only person in a gathering of about fifty who displayed any alienation from his biological sex hardly proves that gender fluidity is some kind of universal default state.

[Hippogryph]

He's no Ed Wood.

[David]

“I want to wear a ballgown and a tiara to work.”
“But Derek, you’re a dental hygienist. People will think it odd and distracting.”
“I don’t care. I want to wear a ballgown and a tiara. I need to feel sensuous while I’m working.”

[Fen Tiger]

Why did moving The Great British Bake-Off from the Beeb to Channel 4 cause Mary, Mel & Sue to decline to renew?

The most likely cause is the inability of the BBC to play well with others. Mel & Sue have careers (largely BBC-based so far) to sustain.

[David]

He’s no Ed Wood.

Dr Cremin also overlooks, or deliberately avoids, an obvious problem for many transgender people, or, as in his case, people who like to cross-dress in incongruous locations. Which is, that unless you’re young and attractive – and attractively androgynous – a combination that’s quite rare – gender-bending has an inherent absurdity, and easily veers into the grotesque. A plain, balding, middle-aged man in a frock and court shoes is unlikely to attract the kinds of attention he may want and instead may have to make do with polite bewilderment. And I don’t think this bewilderment, this perception of absurdity, is a result of The All-Powerful Patriarchy; I suspect it’s hard-wired.

[Pogonip]

Our dentist wears ballgowns but feels the tiaras are a bit ostentatious for a professional man.

[Wh00ps]

And I don’t think this bewilderment, this perception of absurdity, is a result of The All-Powerful Patriarchy; I suspect it’s hard-wired.

I believe it's called the "Uncanny Valley."

[Tom]

Our dentist wears ballgowns but feels the tiaras are a bit ostentatious for a professional man.

I would imagine the tiaras keep snagging on that blinding white light of torture they use. If only I could find a combination priest\dentist I could kill two birds with one stone. I'd confess to anything to get that thing out of my eyes.

[R. Sherman]

How convenient that he slaps a patina of heroic righteous struggle on his exhibitionism, which struggle occurs solely within the confines of the Clown Quarter and not, say, someplace like Riyadh.

[Farnsworth M Muldoon]

Our dentist wears ballgowns but feels the tiaras are a bit ostentatious for a professional man.

I don't want to hear it, just try getting a surgical gown over a proper hoop skirt.

I'd confess to anything to get that thing out of my eyes.

Get a pair of mirrored sunglasses, OTOH, if they have it aimed at your eyes, you might be at the ophthalmologist...

[Daniel Ream]

“I want to wear a ballgown and a tiara to work.”
“But Derek, you’re a dental hygienist. People will think it odd and distracting.”

"I'm supposed to be a dental hygienist......but I think I look more like the Chrysler Building."

[David]

More from the bewitching Mr Cremin:

Cremin said the book was a frank account of her desire to dress as a woman and the reality of doing so in the workplace and in public. She said the desire is a common one among men but few are in a position to act on it, except in parody. “It’s extremely rare to see... any male dressed in women’s clothes,” Cremin said. “I think that... tells us something about the kind of society we live in.”

The word ‘common’ seems to be doing a lot of heavy lifting there. And I’m not sure that the alleged shortage of transvestites tells us much of anything about society.

Cremin said the most common reaction she received when dressed as a woman, was: “People feign indifference... as if there is no change whatsoever... I think... that behaviour, that kind of appearance belies what goes on underneath because... people, they don’t think that you see them (but) they’re staring.”

So even if passers-by are polite enough to suppress any sign of registering the incongruity, they’re still going to be suspected of being quietly scandalised and transfixed. Of course, anomalies tend to attract attention, which is presumably the objective. Again, note the vaguely salacious air, as if Mr Cremin were almost titillated by it.

[R. Sherman]

...as if Mr Cremin were almost titillated by it.

I don't think there's any question about it. As you note above, the costume is a fetish and he has found a place where he can satisfy his exhibitionist urges behind the shield of transgressive (no pun intended) edginess. Simply put, he's a public onanist, whose fantasies and perversions are masquerading as heroism. The joys of being in the cocoon of academia, I suppose, but in the real world, he's just a dirty old man.

[Lancastrian Oik]

I was going to say "Eddie Izzard, only minus the jokes", but this last ten years or so all that gets you is.... Eddie Izzard.

[PiperPaul]

"attract(ing) attention"

Hasn't this behavior been recast as "raising awareness", thus giving a shiny, moral veneer to the narcissism that is usually underneath?

[David]

the costume is a fetish and he has found a place where he can satisfy his exhibitionist urges behind the shield of transgressive edginess

There is, I think, more than a whiff of opportunism and bad faith. It sounds like a patchwork of excuses, many of which jar with other excuses. And so, for instance, Dr Cremin tells us that gender is “fluid” and that he doesn’t “think there is any intrinsic gender.” And yet his, shall we say, appetite isn’t to wear clothes with no obviously gendered connotations, or some mix-and-match. Instead, he likes to play at being a woman by wearing stereotypically female clothing, those “silky fabrics,” and make-up, and female jewellery, and long painted nails, while moving about, even sitting at a desk, as he thinks a woman would. For someone who doesn’t believe in intrinsic gender, it’s very gendered role-play.

[PiperPaul]

"“I want to wear a ballgown and a tiara to work.”"

Before I got to the last word I thought David was repeating something a four year-old had said about pre-school.

[Charley's Aunt]

unless you’re young and attractive – and attractively androgynous – a combination that’s quite rare – gender-bending has an inherent absurdity, and easily veers into the grotesque.

Androgyny presents itself as egalitarian, as broadening the range of people who are able to feel beautiful. But it's really an elitist standard that only works for exceptional swanlike creatures like Charlotte Gainsbourg, or for people who are so conventionally beautiful that (like a billionaire who can afford to burn a few $50 bills) they can afford displays that would make ordinary people look uglier.

If you don't conform to the norms of your own sex, you have even less chance of conforming to the norms of the opposite sex. Your best chance of feeling presentable is to dress and groom yourself to get as close as reasonably possible to the norms of your own sex. Up to the 1950's, fashion gave plain men and women the tools to do this - shoulder-broadening suits for men, dresses for women that put curves and flowing lines where they were needed. Since the 1960's, the emphasis has been on "authenticity" and youth, so that the majority of people end up presenting themselves as authentically plain and oddly-shaped.

Some of these plain and oddly-shaped malcontents decide that they're gender-fluid, because that's the solution that's being pushed. As Chesterton said: He who is detached, disgruntled, non descript, intermediate is everywhere made the excuse for altering what is common, corporate, traditional and popular. And the alteration is always for the worse. The mermaid never becomes more womanly, but only more fishy. The centaur never becomes more manly, but only more horsy.

[Rob]

Sociology, again.

I reckon at least half of the ills of modern Western society have been caused by Sociologists.

[abacab]

"the breaking down of hetero-fascist biases"

Once again, someone using "fascist" in a way that strips it of all meaning.

A way which, indeed, renders every "actually existing socialist country" fascist. As they so often do. I love getting Twatter idiots to bring out the "USSR was actually right-wing" thing when you point out that they did something they deemed 2 minutes before to be "fascist" or "right-wing"...

[Pogonip]

But what about trick-or-treat? Do you have it?

[pst314]

"Instead, he likes to play at being a woman by wearing stereotypically female clothing..."

Women will sometimes point out that these trans men tend to behave like stereotypes or caricatures of women.

[pst314]

"As you note above, the costume is a fetish and he has found a place where he can satisfy his exhibitionist urges behind the shield of transgressive (no pun intended) edginess. Simply put, he's a public onanist, whose fantasies and perversions are masquerading as heroism."

Some people just like to offend, and even to desecrate or defile. Some of them look for an ideology to justify their antisocial tendencies.

[Lancastrian Oik]

But what about trick-or-treat? Do you have it?

Yes, unfortunately.

[Theophrastus]

Not unrelated:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4879694/Transgender-teacher-quit-job-exposed-porn-star.html

[Monty James]

Totting up what we have so far, this guy has:

•A mad scheme--destroying the Hetero-Fascist Patriarchy

•A kinky, sinister personal style

•A name with a professional title, conferring pseudo authority--Dr. Cremin

Add a private island and a nuclear pile and you've got yourself a Bond villain.

Oops, I almost forgot. He also has a minion:

[pst314]

Speaking of the desire to desecrate, this is on Drudge today:
"Nude model jailed for topless Egyptian temple shoot vows to keep stripping off at holy sites..."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4455938/nude-model-jailed-for-topless-egyptian-temple-shoot-vows-to-keep-stripping-off-holy-sites-as-a-yell-for-womens-freedom

I yield to none in my dislike of the oppressive and totalitarian nature of Islam, but am really tired of this sort of stunt. We have seen increasing numbers of invasions of churches and cathedrals by feminist creeps.

[Spiny Norman]

vows to keep stripping off holy sites as a yell for women's freedom

The Grand Mosque excluded, I'm quite certain.

really tired of this sort of stunt

More infantile than "transgressive".

[pst314]

More infantile than "transgressive".

"Freaking the mundanes".

[Darleen]

Instead, he likes to play at being a woman by wearing stereotypically female clothing,

This here's the thing whenever the whole 'trans' fad is being argued. I have had a few knock-down arguments with people who keep telling me trans women ARE women. Period. No difference.

Yet real women don't wear makeup 24/7 (some don't at all). We can dress with great casualness - jeans, flip flops, shorts, sweats and torn/worn t-shirts to work in the garden. We are women even when we aren't dressed like Holly Golightly.

OTOH I see trans dressed as if they were going clubbing at all hours of the day or night.

They aren't comfortable in their skin as the women they claim to be. They go full cosplay in order to reinforce "yes, I'm a woman, a Woman, A WOMAN!!!"... the costume is the thing.

[Horace Dunn]

But despite being told, endlessly, that gender is fluid, I can’t offhand think of a single friend or family member who displays any obvious fluidity in their gender identity.

I’d imagine that most people would concur with that statement. But I’ve known three men who felt that they were women born into the wrong – that is male – body. I didn’t seek them out, and I certainly don’t move in particularly rakish or bohemian circles, yet it just happens to be so that I’ve known not one but three such people – two quite well, and one only slightly.

I have no doubt that these men were sincere. They were not inclined to be flamboyant about their predicament. They were not overtly political, far less were they proselytising. They weren’t seeking public funds to indulge their desires. The one I knew only slightly I can’t speak of, but the other two are people for whom I have respect and admiration.

I understand, of course, that what is being highlighted here is the aggressive pretension and unfounded assumptions of Mr Cremin (and here and elsewhere on these pages, the endless twaddle about gender fluidity and other modish but highly-questionable notions) but I thought I should just weigh in with my bit of anecdotal evidence on the matter to balance David’s bit of anecdotal evidence. My personal experience makes me tend to feel sympathetically towards what is now referred to as gender dysphoria. But it makes me very unsympathetic towards the idiots seeking attention and status on those grounds.

[dicentra]

One of my coworkers is FtM trans. I refer to him using male pronouns out of courtesy, because I reckon that no one transitions except in response to an unrelenting hell.

That said, the flamboyant professor is definitely more interested in epatering the boo-zhwa-zee than in harmonizing his internal and external selves. IOW, the unrelenting hell is imposed on those who surround him rather than raging inside him.

[Pogonip]

Look at me. Look at me! LOOOK AAAAT MEEEEEE!!!
--Why are you looking at me like that, you bigot?

There's a whole lot of difference between someone playing the above stupid game (Zinnia Whatshisnamethisweek, I'm, er, looking at you) and someone who honestly feels trapped in the wrong sex.

[David]

I thought I should just weigh in with my bit of anecdotal evidence on the matter to balance David’s bit of anecdotal evidence.

Glad you did.

[Richard Cranium]

I have no doubt that these men were sincere.

Being sincere is not the same as being correct.

I've talked to people who had experienced extended periods of little to no sleep (US Army Ranger School, as it so happens). One of the most memorable stories were from one man who told me that he saw a high-rise building in the middle of the Florida swamps. He was sincere when he told me that he saw such a thing, even though he knew afterwards that could not have possibly been true.

The other memorable story was from someone who was supposed to go to a rally point and coordinate with several people to move the patrol from one point to another in trucks. When walking away from the rally point, he asked his instructor how well he did. The instructor told him that he covered all the points but there was nobody back where they were other than themselves. That person told me that he sincerely believed that he had been talking to actual human beings versus trees or God knows what.

I'll mention from my own experience that after an extended period of ~1 month of 2 hours of sleep a night while staring at topological maps for several hours, I started to see topological contour lines on everything I looked at. Walls, people's faces, you name it.

I would have sincerely told you at the time that I saw that. I intellectually knew that what I saw was not true.

I'll admit that I was temporarily insane when I saw contour lines on every surface I looked upon. I suspect that the two individuals mentioned above would have admitted to be temporarily insane when they saw the things they did, but I cannot claim that to be true.

I believe that those men who honestly believed that they were women born into male bodies are insane. They may be functionally insane (as I and the two others mentioned in my stories were), but insane nonetheless.

My belief, of course, is not the same thing as reality.

[Theophrastus]

What evidence could men who believe they are women-in-male-bodies have for their belief? They can't know what it is to be a woman - the hormonal fluctuations, the menstrual cramps, the different priorities and emotional architecture, etc. Surely, they are beguiled by their fantasy, their illusion, of what it is to be a woman.

[David]

What evidence could men who believe they are women-in-male-bodies have for their belief?

There is, it seems, some evidence that, in some cases at least, transgender people have small but discernible variations in white matter brain structure – with features approximating those typically found in the gender they identify with. So the subjective experience of being a gender at odds with one’s appearance may, sometimes, be rooted in a physical, developmental anomaly. And as the sexing of the foetus apparently occurs in stages, with genitals and neural wiring being developed separately, at different stages of the pregnancy, an anomaly or error in one process may not be reflected in the other.

[Pogonip]

Sort of a new topic--I give you the ultimate Everyday Feminism headline!

https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/07/assumptions-non-binary-folks/

[Farnsworth M Muldoon]

...the sexing of the foetus apparently occurs in stages...

Always take review articles with a salt lick if all you have is the abstract, particularly when the authors repeatedly end the abstract with statements such as, "There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.", or "There is no proof that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation." One would almost suspect they had an agenda.

Further, the authors ignore the effects of puberty, and as always when one goes searching the papers, one finds a counter argument:

The corresponding effects of fetal hormones on childhood behaviour have been found both in subhuman primates and in man, while the evidence concerning later behaviour, including sexual orientation, is not yet clear. The development of gender identity in humans is a cognitive process that has no counterpart in animal behaviour and is unlikely to be based on a specific hormone-sensitive brain system. It appears that the hormone-dependent variations of sex-dimorphic behaviour in childhood can be accommodated within either gender identity, provided that the child's physical appearance is gender adequate and the parental (or other caregivers') rearing style does not interfere with typical gender role development.

Meanwhile, approaching the issue as a mental health problem, I give you the Edingburgh Trans Health Manifesto.

There will be no clinics, and no authorities. We will conduct our own research, and experiment with our own bodies. We will heal and grow together. We will accumulate knowledge and share it freely and accessibly. We demand nothing less than the total abolition of the clinic, of psychiatry, and of the medical-industrial complex. We demand an end to capitalist & colonialist “medicine”.

We demand hormones & blockers are made available over-the-counter and by free prescription upon request. We need free, universal access to safe hormones & blockers at any age, the opportunity to decide our own doses, and universally accessible information on the safety & efficacy of different regimens.

Yeah, nothing will go wrong there with their non-capitalist medicine (ignoring that they are already on the remarkably non-capitalist NHS).

Read the whole thing, as the kids say, they also want reproductive justice (although how that squares with body mutilation and hormone ingestion is not made clear) and no borders, prisons or police, but free hair removal.

[WTP]

There is, it seems, some evidence that, in some cases at least, transgender people have small but discernible variations in white matter brain structure

I have done some cursory searches on chimerism and gender dysphoria. Unfortunately most of what I find, both positive and negative, has a tone of certainty or hyperbole that I lack the time, patience, nor biological/genetics knowledge to wade through. One scholarly sounding article bled into homosexuality, which I kinda doubted based on other factors I'd rather not sidetrack into. I'm curious if anyone here with serious medical training or a professional understanding of genetics, and possibly chimerism, could shed some light?

[David]

Always take review articles with a salt lick

Well, I don’t follow the technical literature, and I don’t care enough to start. But it always struck me as possible, even probable, that acute gender dysphoria, at least in some cases, might have some physical, developmental basis, as opposed to being mere bonkersness. It’s hard to imagine that kind of alienation from one’s physical self, but if it should be, to some degree, a kind of birth defect, a copying error, then responding to such people as merely insane doesn’t seem adequate. And although dogmatic or demented activists certainly exist, and now enjoy a certain limelight, they don’t speak for everyone with the condition.

[PiperPaul]

Or it's like Phantom Limb Syndrome, but with the Naughty Bits.

[Hal]

Or it's like Phantom Limb Syndrome, but with the Naughty Bits.

. . . . that actually may be an extremely simplified but utterly dead on summary . . .

Of those I've run into who are the actual occurrence of There Must Be Change, the quite standard and recurring attitude, practice, whatnot, is the very emphatic overall Hi, I'm [name], and now we return to totally ignoring you and I and whatever we do personally, and continue discussing the shared current event that we are here for, because the current event is what we are here for, rather than you or I . . .

I just don't see the Me! Me! Me! types having anything do do with such an actual change, given such a change being too bloody personal---i.e. never mind when others are around to be that audience, what about all that time when one is and will remain totally alone by one's self, even when among others---I know genuine drag queens, where the costume is put on, and the costume is taken off. Quite the opposite of I dress as a woman because I like wearing women’s clothes. I like the look of the westernised feminine aesthetic. I like the feel of the silky fabrics on my body. . . . with the reality instead of the poser, I've had the recurring occurrence of some guy turning up in blue jeans and a t-shirt and commenting that Oh, yeah, this is my boy face.

And thus both instances of being the individual, rather than the costume, rather point to the basic reality of never mind a posturing idiot who's merely in a dress---or an over contrived suit, for that matter---, actually doing that actual transition is all that bloody effort and time and there is only that individual who is indeed going to do all that work completely alone and with zero audience---oh, and then also get some surgery done. . .

[Darleen]

Crab Bucket

[David]

Crab Bucket

Ugh. Maybe it’s just me, but I struggle to think of a political viewpoint that offends me to such an extent that punching and kicking a 60-year-old woman is the obvious and imperative thing to do.

[Farnsworth M Muldoon]

Well, I don’t follow the technical literature, and I don’t care enough to start.

Unfortunately, I have to wade through a lot of this sort of thing, but not this particular topic. With any subject any review article or meta-analysis should be suspect until proven otherwise as one never knows what the authors left out, as in the case above, that might have contradicted a preconceived notion.

But it always struck me as possible, even probable, that acute gender dysphoria, at least in some cases, might have some physical, development basis, as opposed to being mere bonkersness...then responding to such people as merely insane doesn’t seem adequate.

True, but the same could be said for any mental illness, and the response is not merely insane as in throw them into St. Bethlehem's and forget about them, but use the same practices as one would with a person with body dysmorphic or body integrity identity disorder, particularly given that there is scant evidence that not treating it as a mental health issue results in improved morbidity and mortality as measured by secondary mental health issues such as depression or suicide.

WTP,

Simplifying a bit, human chimerism is caused by stem cells from one of a pair of twins being absorbed by the other during gestation via a shared uterine blood supply. If the twins were monozygotic (one sperm, one ovum) either would be male or female and there would be no expected effect. If they were dizygotic (two sperm, two ovum, two placentas) either could be male or female. Regarding the fraternal twins there can either be "fusion" of the twins during gestation, or separate births. Depending on what you read the incidence of chimerism in fraternal twins is around 8%, but that is a SWAG, as nobody really has been looking until fairly recently, and one has to separate chimerism from mosaicism. Given that true tetragametic chimerism could result in an individual with mixed gonadal tissue, it is not impossible that there could be an effect on "gender identity", but again, no one knows the actual incidence, but given the dearth of discovered cases with all the recent attention, my SWAG would be that it is vanishingly small

Or it's like Phantom Limb Syndrome...

Not to be pedantic again, but you mean Body Integrity Identity Disorder. Phantom limb syndrome is very real and the result of an amputation wherein there is sensation that the limb is still there. Unfortunately for the sufferer this can include pain, itching, and other unpleasant sensations.

[Theophrastus]

"...the subjective experience of being a gender at odds with one’s appearance may, sometimes, be rooted in a physical, developmental anomaly."

It may well be; but, without a brain scan, all these women-in-male-bodies have to base their claims on is their feelz, which is surely less than sufficient to justify taking hormones or having surgery or demanding certain rights.

Some trans-sexuals -- Jan Morris and Deirdre McCloskey are examples - strike me as eminently sane, at least now. They made their strange (to me) decision to become simulacra of women after long and mature reflection. Their disorder was treated. However, many other trans-sexuals strike me as mentally ill (cf. someone who believes they are Napoleon or a fried egg) or neurotically eccentric (cf someone who maintains they are the reincarnation of Richard the Lionheart or Rameses II). We will never know which trans-sexuals are genuine until there is an objective diagnosis. Meanwhile, their feelz are an insufficient basis for claiming entitlements.

[Theophrastus]

"...I struggle to think of a political viewpoint that offends me to such an extent that punching and kicking anyone is the obvious and imperative thing to do."

FTFY

[pst314]

"(cf someone who maintains they are the reincarnation of Richard the Lionheart or Rameses II)"

Nobody ever claims to be the reincarnation of an unknown peasant.

[Pogonip]

Speaking of Zinnia...

http://theothermccain.com/2017/09/14/transgender-cult-update-woman-60-assaulted-by-activists-in-london/

[WTP]

Farnsworth...thx for the info and you've narrowed down the search for me a bit to where I see some different, interesting data. Now this is Wikipedia-level (literally) info but also fits with what I recall seeing a few years ago when I looked into this (or whatever article that I last read that I trusted). According to Wiki (many reasons to be wary, admittedly) as many as 1 in 8 pregnancies start out as multiple (Vanishing Twins). If 8% of 12.5% were chimera, that would approximate to 1% of the population...potentially. There is much uncertainty and the proper math might be a bit more complicated, but if we say 0.5% that would somewhat resemble my admittedly data-weak observation.

[WTP]

But hold on....Now I see more confusion. The Wiki article concerning twins that I started with stated "Researchers suspect that as many as 1 in 8 pregnancies start out as multiples", yet the Vanishing Twins article I linked above states "Vanishing twins occur in up to one out of every eight multifetus pregnancies and may not even be known in most case". Which I suppose could both be true...I dunno...there's lotsa eights there and I used to be good at math. I'm still good enough at math to be suspect of other people's math, and especially their use of numbers in statistics. But what I posted above meshes with what I recall of the article that I read years ago.

Also, now seeing that even my numbers above assume that ALL chimeras would be gender benders, which of course is kinda what you state above as being highly unlikely.

[pst314]

I guess this film is now on the To Be Burned list:
https://youtu.be/GS2fBo-Pb_4