David Thompson
Subscribe
Blog powered by Typepad

« Dressing Is Difficult | Main | Friday Ephemera »

February 07, 2018

Comments

Jen

I meant it to be a hopeful and positive observation

Worst. Excuse. Ever.

David

Worst. Excuse. Ever.

Somehow, incredibly, it’s not entirely convincing.

Laurie was educated at Oxford and Harvard, you know.

David

And of course the drama unfolds in the usual way.

Laurie says something stupid and insulting to at least half the planet’s population, and does it proudly. Several people reply with tweeted mockery. Laurie claims that her deep and radical wisdom has “frightened” her male critics. Someone asks Laurie if her statement means that her father was “trash” and “toxic” too. Laurie promptly shifts into victimhood mode, dismisses such questions as the work of “trolls” and “slimeballs,” and claims to be receiving a “huge amount of harassment,” “threats” and “horrific abuse,” evidence of which is not forthcoming.

Joan

And of course the drama unfolds in the usual way.

Alice

Because modern masculinity – whether yours or mine, or your husband’s or brother’s - “wounds everyone” and is “grounded in sexual violence.”

What kind of men does she hang out with?

David

What kind of men does she hang out with?

Well, quite. Lots of lefties and male feminists, presumably - people who are, as she puts it, struggling to “reclaim their full humanity.” Laurie’s cartoon of masculinity as something “toxic” and oppressive, and rooted in “sexual violence,” doesn’t remotely describe my brothers-in-law, nephews or male friends. And I doubt that the women I know would willingly associate with, let alone marry, the monsters of Laurie’s imaginings.

Ray

What "women and minorities" want is all the benefits of living in a civilization built and maintained by white men, but without the white men. You have to be a special kind of stupid not to to see the contradiction. Also, Zimbabwe.

Tom
Laurie was educated at Oxford and Harvard, you know.

If I was connected to either of those institutions I'd see about taking out an injunction to stop her from letting people know we were daft enough to accept and then matriculate her. On the other hand if I was actually connected to either institution my conservatarian ideas would have already seen me thrown out on my ear, so on second thought they're probably both quite proud of her.

Sigh.

Jonathan

" All men are trash." Says Laurie - " Except my dad."

#NotAllMen

Burnsie

Adam. I am a journalism fellow at Harvard.

...and an obnoxious braggart, too.

Jeez, what a toxic mess.

Hector Drummond, Vile Novelist

Somwhow reading The Guardian is still a sign that you belong to the ruling class, rather than that you're a nutter. I wonder how long that's going to last.

Turk Turkleton

What's it like being Laurie Penny? Is it like being a bug?

dw

What kind of men does she hang out with?

Lots of lefties and male feminists, presumably

That.

Jon Powers

Umm - Laurie uses the term "human". It has the word "man" in it, and this is problematic. We like to use the term "hu-people". She has much to learn from my Prime Minister. We can all learn from each other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z10goVbpLw0

David

That.

It’s not an entirely flip or trivial point. Judging by Laurie’s own tweets and articles, she actively avoids company that’s insufficiently leftwing, and her social circle seems to consist largely of far-left misfits and polyamorist suitors who presumably share her taste for disdaining bourgeois proprieties. If, as she claims, the men she associates with are so prone to obnoxious behaviour and neurotic dysfunction - more than chance alone would seem to allow - perhaps that’s less to do with men in general and more a feature of her chosen sub-group.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Laurie was educated at Oxford and Harvard, you know.

IOW, basically as dumb as a creosote post without the creosote.

Because modern masculinity...

Here, once again, we get into trouble because the left refuses to define terms. I suspect, as Tim Newman and others point out, just as the Prius driving lady who encountered the "redneck", that Miss Penny only has hands on (as it were) experience with modern "men" of the left who represent the actual "modern" masculinity i.e, the "soyboy" self professed male feminists, and not the traditional masculinity of male as the provider (except for the gathering of berries and making sammiches) and protector of the family unit.

The concept of the never defined "toxic masculinity", OTOH, is really nothing more than an excuse for the likes of Miss Penny to refuse actually to engage with any traditional males as their concept of them is just like that of Little Miss Busted-Prius who have a cartoon image of any male outside their circle of jerks as being a Budweiser swilling, gap-toothed, mullet wearing, 6th grade dropout, (or metric equivalent) who is at first chance going to bend them over the hood of their sparky cars and kick them to the curb after they have had their way - and then to go invade a "brown" country to steal all the natural resources.

MC

Miss Penny only has hands on (as it were) experience with modern "men" of the left who represent the actual "modern" masculinity i.e, the "soyboy" self professed male feminists

I suspect there are lots of these in her circles and I'm sure she only has contempt for weasels who'll endure four hours of lecturing and self-abasement in exchange for two minutes of joyless coupling.

But the lefty scene also has a lot of predators who find fucked-up feminists easy to manipulate. I'd bet Penny has woken up after more than a few nights, where she's been exhorted to break boundaries and put aside bourgeois notions, feeling degraded and used.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

@MC

You are correct, but the two groups are not always mutually exclusive.

R. Sherman

IIRC, Penny spent an evening in the company of Milo Yiannopoulos and others of the *cough* "facist, alt-right" and was actually enjoying the experience until she was shamed for wrong-think by her leftist peers. Thus, Tim Newman's observation is undoubtedly spot-on. Undoubtedly, though she revels in tossing about epithets at men, like the Prius-driving, Trump-hating bint of recent discussion, she'd be the first to avail herself of the "toxic masculinity" which deploys zip-ties to fix a car problem and does so without engaging in gratuitous "sexual violence."

R. Sherman

Whoops. Should've read Farnsworth's comment before posting. Well, as they say, Original Thought is like Original Sin. They both happened a long time ago to people you most likely never met.

Rafi

"Women are trash" = misogyny.
"Men are trash" = feminism!

David

It’s adorable feminism.

Hopp Singg

One hot summer’s day a feminist was strolling along till she came to a bunch of strong and capable men just hanging out. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth she. She preened and she pranced, but the men were uninterested and at last she had to give up, and walked away with her nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”

WTP

Budweiser swilling, gap-toothed, mullet wearing, 6th grade dropout, (or metric equivalent) who is at first chance going to bend them over the hood of their sparky cars and kick them to the curb after they have had their way - and then to go invade a "brown" country to steal all the natural resources.

And I was getting anxious and bored, wondering what I could possibly do with my afternoon! Thanks! BTW, is France now considered a "brown country"? Asking for a friend.

R. Sherman

And I was getting anxious and bored, wondering what I could possibly do with my afternoon!

Or, as we call it here in the Ozarks: "Wednesday."

aelfheld

Have any of these bien pensants ever defined what they mean by 'toxic masculinity'?

As best I can tell, it seems to consist in the main of not being ashamed to be male.

bilbaoboy

We need to talk about #toxicfeminism

Adam

I take my toxic masculinity with a white whine chaser.

Hippogryph

I think we're all familiar with it, but it's good to break down how this works.

"Toxic masculinity" is evil, we are told. Further, being male is prima facie evidence of being "toxic". So, what counter-evidence might a male offer that he has been recycled and no longer a toxic piece of trash?

The only evidence acceptable is a carte blanche endorsement of the radical feminists' ideological whims, as they mutate from day to day. And best keep up to date on such matters, lest one fall prey to the heretic hunting which necessary to all this.

Observe that it is at no point necessary in the process above to define "toxic masculinity" in any cognizable way.

It's all a power play, of course. And no different in essence than any of the other "do as you're told, or you're a bigot" gambits by the Left.

Mags

Someone asks Laurie if her statement means that her father was “trash” and “toxic” too. Laurie promptly shifts into victimhood mode

You're not supposed to talk back.

Theophrastus

I suspect that L.P. unconsciously desires a rather dominant man to ravish her. Though, after her mind-blowing orgasm, she'd probably join #metoo.

David

You’re not supposed to talk back.

Laurie seems unable to construct load-bearing arguments. However sweeping and bizarre her claims may be, and they generally are, you mustn’t actually test them. They’re only for display purposes.

Trevor

BTW, is France now considered a "brown country"?

Don't 'they' begin at Calais? (Caveat: I failed Geography O-level.)

Tim Newman

I'd bet Penny has woken up after more than a few nights, where she's been exhorted to break boundaries and put aside bourgeois notions, feeling degraded and used.

That’s a bet you’d win: http://www.desertsun.co.uk/blog/?p=4801

PiperPaul

"The women’s website Bustle banned the word “flattering” because it implies there’s an ideal shape for a woman, and we all know women aren’t interested in looks."

Bustle 2. n. a framework worn at the back below the waist for giving fullness to a woman's skirt.

Pogonip

Tim, you’re supposed to be skiing! Take off those bullshit waders, put on your snow boots, and get out there and have FUN!

Farnsworth M Muldoon

I take my toxic masculinity with a white whine chaser.

Yes, because you are a racist misogynist, otherwise you would have pinot noir whine.

Squires

wastes so much human potential

Translation: I see myself gaining more (money, status, emotional satisfaction) only if we continue to grind them down.

WTP

I take my toxic masculinity with a white whine chaser.

Yes, because you are a racist misogynist, otherwise you would have pinot noir whine.

See, that's the problem with whinge. Not a homophone of wine...or is it? Might explain that odd dining experience in Manchester.

Megaera

Remember plumber-fearing Ned Resnikoff of ThinkProgress? the (presumptively) male counterpart of Little Miss Busted-Prius? There has to be a match to be made there, with endless hours of comedy gold resulting...

David

Remember plumber-fearing Ned Resnikoff of ThinkProgress?

Oh yes, we mustn’t forget him.

Tim Newman

Tim, you’re supposed to be skiing! Take off those bullshit waders, put on your snow boots, and get out there and have FUN!

Good point!

Pogonip

Have fun and that’s an order!

Splotchy

I’ve spent several years concluding Penny is immature, unintelligent, petulant and incapable of forming relationships - that’s always been the only explanation of the utter warpedness and hatred in her witterings. The only inexplicable thing is that anyone publishes her.

However there’s another explanation, just a tad more cunning and devious. And that is that even someone as risibly daft as her cannot truly believe: ‘men are trash’ - and that what we’re seeing is the result of her not having had adequate recent attention and her equivalent of hurling out a Lynton-Crosby-Dead-Cat in order to get some. This generates heat, clicks on her twitter feed with its promotion of her books, gets a dollop of attention from her sheep-like adulators, plus enables her to play the victim card. To a nigh-deranged narcissist like her that probably feels fantastic.

Of course any normal person would just feel ashamed.

Turk Turkleton

Oooh, the commies are getting soooo steamed over Jordan Peterson...

Pogonip

That Ned guy is probably the only person in the world with plumberphobia.

Pogonip

Granted, most people’s grandmas probably didn’t talk much about lobster battles, Grandma Peterson evidently having been an exception. But, aside from the lobsters, I still maintain that nothing this guy says wasn’t already said by mom and grandma, so what’s all the fuss about? Do liberals think he’s the first person ever to say “clean your room” or “stand up straight”? Do his fans think that? I don’t get it.

Darleen

Oooh, the commies are getting soooo steamed over Jordan Peterson...

Subhead on first link: Jordan Peterson's thought is filled with pseudo-science, bad pop psychology, and deep irrationalism. In other words, he’s full of shit.

FTA, 1st paragraph: "In response to Newman’s statistics about the wage gap, Peterson argued that this inequality was a necessary part of the capitalist dynamic."

As far as I'm concerned, when an author starts with ad hominem and lies, I'm just not going to waste my time reading the rest of the mendoucheous twatwafflery.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Do liberals think he’s the first person ever to say “clean your room” or “stand up straight”?

For a generation who, as has often been shown in these pages, has never been told "NO", and/or that their bodily waste smelled like roses and warm muffins, yes, he is the first to have said this.

champ

Oh, nooos....

https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2018/02/07/algorithmic-bias-software-recommendations-000631

Turk Turkleton

As far as I'm concerned, when an author starts with ad hominem and lies, I'm just not going to waste my time reading the rest of the mendoucheous twatwafflery.

Well, sure, if you think of the article as an attempt to impart accurate information, you'll be appalled. But if you view it as a man twisting words and basic facts into grotesque balloon animals, there's a certain morbid amusement to it.

dicentra

In other news, Tribbles are real, only they're not cute and fuzzy, they're crayfish, and they're all female (Hey Laurie!), and they're going to take over the world.

WKrebs

In other news, Tribbles are real, only they're not cute and fuzzy, they're crayfish, and they're all female (Hey Laurie!), and they're going to take over the world.

Maybe this would help: http://www.everintransit.com/louisiana-crawfish-boil-recipe/

David

Well, sure, if you think of the article as an attempt to impart accurate information, you’ll be appalled. But if you view it as a man twisting words and basic facts into grotesque balloon animals, there’s a certain morbid amusement to it.

Heh. The Guardian piece by Dorian Lynskey is tagged “far right,” is selectively obtuse, regurgitates dishonest and discredited articles, and repeatedly smears Peterson as trading in “pseudo-facts” without actually providing an example to share with readers. Apparently, we should just agree that this is so, without knowing that it is. It’s the Guardian way. And apparently, the Clown Quarter of academia and its culture of censoriousness and identitarian victimhood are in no way ideological, or dysfunctional or a cause for concern. Finally, we’re told, “There is no need to caricature [Peterson’s] ideas in order to challenge them,” by a writer who indulges in caricature and shies from substantive challenge.

Mr Lynskey, by the way, is a former flatmate of one Laurie Penny.

I sneeze in threes

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0023/91625/OfcomQRG-AOC.pdf

O/T Ofcom’s helpful list of swear words. Roger Mellie would be proud.

David

so what’s all the fuss about?

I think it’s a measure of just how narrow and intolerant “social justice” posturing has become, and of the degree to which being woke relies on pretending. Peterson came to fame by saying, firmly and at some personal risk, that he isn’t prepared to pretend certain things. Whatever his shortcomings, Peterson is a reminder that there’s land beyond the plantation, as it were. That one doesn’t have to pretend.

Jonathan

Oooh, the commies are getting soooo steamed over Jordan Peterson...

Two articles which claim the Dr Jordan misuses statistics and indulges in conspiracy theories but which fail to provide any examples.

Here's author Harrison Fluss's page on ratemyprofessors:

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=1830052

"Not a lot of work, and no big assignments."

"Expect Star Wars references and youtube videos."

Sounds like Richard Feynman re-incarnate.

And author number two Dorian Lynskey:

"Dorian Lynskey is a music writer for the Guardian and Observer."

I always get my science from music writers.

Pogonip

Didn’t know he was famous for refusing to say up is down. NOW I understand.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

http://www.everintransit.com/louisiana-crawfish-boil-recipe/

No, just no, you do not put carrots in a crawfish boil, only some barbarian from north of The Line of Mason and Dixon would do that, you put in onions and andouille sausage. I am surprised they didn't put in avocado.

O/T Ofcom’s helpful list of swear words

I believe they got most of them from Clarkson, May, and Hammond's writers.

"Dorian Lynskey is a music writer for the Guardian and Observer."

Meh, Dorian Lynskey is a minor writer, but his brother Mixolydian is the major writer in the family.

Meanwhile, speaking of science, take a break from Miss Penny, and enjoy sciency art, this time "curated" by the fetching Miss Sandrine Shaefer. This piece is by one talented Mr. Joseph Ravens, and is titled "Mastication".

I'm curious about organs or behaviors that have lost their original function through evolution. I'm particularly interested in the vestigial tail. When struggling to find meaning and purpose in this random universe, I find myself wondering how much behavior is instinctual – coming from a primordial place – a place of survival and propagation. It's a simple question: where do we come from? What are we, really? Animals at the core, what would have happened if we had not lost the vestigial tail? Imagine it served some vital purpose and became part of our anatomy. What would that look like? I wanted to know.

I am sure you, as well as all evolutionary biologists, will find that this burning question has been answered.

David

one talented Mr. Joseph Ravens

That name rings a bell. Ah yes. Here we go.

pst314

I am surprised they didn't put in avocado.

How about kale? :-D

R. Sherman

...you put in onions and andouille sausage.

For jambalaya, sure. Not in a pure boil. Just water and spice/seasonings.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Not in a pure boil.

Yeah, but they were talking about the crawfish variant of a low country boil, and only a heathen would put carrots in that too.

Meanwhile, more science (not to be confused with Morse Science), we learn of the Gender Master List, which is "...an ongoing list...".

Condigender: a gender that is only felt during certain circumstances

Odd, I would have thought that was if one identified as ketchup, mustard, or pickle relish.

Feel free to message to add your own.

Pogonip

I identify as hoisin sauce; that also gets me points for being non-white.

jabrwok

re: "...gender"

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

Pogonip

Official Person, who, being official, presumably Has A Degree, while Taking My Information: And what is your gender?

Me: Don’t have one.

OP: So you identify as asexual?

Me: No.

OP: So what is your gender?

Me: I don’t have one. I am not a noun.

OP: [Blank stare]

Me: Nouns have gender. People are of one sex or the other.

OP: [Blanker stare, long pause]. What’s a noun?

All this College Education is wrecking our society and I don’t know what to do about it.

PiperPaul

"which is to be master — that's all"

Ha! I just saw the quote again in 'The Vacuity of Mostmodernist Methodology' by Shackel. I think it was linked here recently.

"'Truth' is to be understood as a system of ordered procedures for the production, regulation, distribution, circulation and operation of statements." - Foucault 1972
.

WTP

All this College Education is wrecking our society and I don’t know what to do about it.

Actual exchange I and a few others recently had with an actual college professor, context of comparing a running competition to capitalism. Shortened for brevity:

CP: But, the main question I am concerned with is the division of the goods based on performance in a competition

Person 1: And I am pointing out that the division of rewards cannot be separated from the methods by which the rewards are generated, when those methods determine the amount of the rewards.

Person 2: In both cases, you imagine some higher power – either a person (like a race director) or a committee (like Congress or our government) deciding what should be of value to people, creating this valuable commodity, and distributing it based on some arbitrary methodology.

Person 3: In both cases, you imagine some higher power

As Milton Friedman famously asked, where will you find all these angels?

Quoting CP from elsewhere: I don’t argue that capitalism does not work or that it is not the best of all plausible worlds. Rather, I focus on the distribution strategies.

he’s not arguing against capitalism. No, no, no, no, no. He likes capitalism. Really. He just thinks that the very thing that makes capitalism work is something he, or those very, very much like him, can appropriate.To not understand (or to pretend not to understand) that such an act undermines the very incentives that create the wealth he/they plan to distribute in the first place, at this point well into the 21st century, well after the fall of the Berlin Wall, etc., is stunningly dense

CP: Well, we do make those decisions via laws, policies and so on as to how the goods are distributed. Examples include tax law, government subsidies, the sale of public resources, and so on.

Pogonip

Our society is falling apart because we have ceded it to educated fools and evil men, and I’m not sure which group is worse.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

I identify as hoisin sauce; that also gets me points for being non-white.

Sorry, that is Chinese, all that means on the Great Pyramid of Grievance is that you have better MCAT/LCAT/GRE scores and make more money on average.

Try being pico de gallo for a while and staying away from ICE.

Pogonip

Soy pico de gallo. 😄

That’s a statement, not a recipe.

WTP

Question for Oz folks, as this was raised in a previous thread, this Harry Windsor aboriginal figure skater...Given that he looks as aboriginal as one would expect a Windsor to look...can anyone hazard a guess as to what percent? I've tried to google this and funny as it may be, it's kinda hard to tell from the search results returned. A few stories mention what I presume are tribes but being a Yank and seeing as John Wayne and John Ford made no effort to "document" the cultural conflict down under, I lack a context for certain terms.

R. Sherman

...John Wayne and John Ford made no effort to "document" the cultural conflict down under...

But Hollywood was on the case.

Clam

I meant it to be a hopeful and positive observation

Dear Laurie,

(1) No you didn't.
(2) If you did you'd be off your meds.

David

(1) No you didn’t.

I’m still tickled by her claim that the tweet was merely “open to misreadings.”

Hal

. . . this Harry Windsor aboriginal figure skater...Given that he looks as aboriginal as one would expect a Windsor to look...can anyone hazard a guess as to what percent? I've tried to google this and funny as it may be, it's kinda hard to tell from the search results returned. . . .

Judging from the results you report, he's prolly Australian.

David

And speaking of polyamory.

Turk Turkleton

Mr Lynskey, by the way, is a former flatmate of one Laurie Penny.

Oh, come on. Is all left-wing media literally just one big polyamorous clusterf—waitdon'tanswerthat.

Romy

Toxic masculinity’ has its roots in Ancient Greece, and some of today’s most damaging myths around sexual norms can be traced back to early literature from the time, as Professor Mary Beard discusses in her latest book Women & power: a manifesto. 

http://www.cam.ac.uk/news/opinion-what-ancient-greece-can-teach-us-about-toxic-masculinity-today

Governor Squid

From Romy's link: "We use social norms theory to show that what is perceived as the dominant view may well not be. The ‘silent majority’ is strong. And it only takes one or two people to stop being silent to change what is perceived to be normal and acceptable."

One waits with bated breath for Tori McKee's article outlining the way in which Dr. Jordan Peterson's current celebrity and its attendant demands for a swift auto-da-fé perfectly illustrate this part of her thesis.

It's remarkable, really, how thoroughly and consistently the Masters of Nuance miss the analogous examples that pass right under their noses.

David

It's everywhere.
I'm using a government funded employment agency to help find work. Of course it's staffed almost entirely by women.

Yesterday I was chatting with the receptionist and mentioned Elon Musk's triumph with the Falcon Heavy test launch the day before. I said how happy the hundred or so launch operators and technicians looked in a group shot and what a bunch of lucky bro dudes in their 20's and 30's they are to be part of such an accomplishment.

Of course she had to put in that there were a few women there, too. I honestly have no idea if that's true or not and neither did she. We weren't actually looking at a picture but she just had to get that in there. Remember, she's a receptionist and older. That's the extent of her ambition.

So I told her I was an engineer and had worked on several projects and yes, there are usually woman engineers.

Then she brought up the École Polytechnique massacre, also known as the Montreal massacre, in 1989 where Marc Lépine killed 14 female engineering students.

It had nothing to do with anything we were talking about but she had to get that in there.

This is how they think. They are indoctrinated in this "men are evil" culture but bring nothing to the real world themselves.

I was grateful to her actually for reminding once again the wickedness that is woman.

Governor Squid

Also from the linked article: A recent study of London commuters shows that only 11% of women who were sexually harassed or assaulted on the Underground were helped by a bystander.

The linked study has no mention of the 11% figure. The PDF of summary results contains no mention of bystanders whatsoever. What it does show is that three-quarters of complaints involve non-contact harassment, which includes wolf-whistling, comments, and staring.

Now, I can see myself telling the lads to tone it down a bit if they've being crude, but how exactly does one intervene to help a poor girl who is being stared at? Are we to constantly surveil the other passengers to make sure their gaze is not fixed inappropriately?

Further, the group reporting the highest proportion of contact harassment is the 25-34 year group, while women 55+ reported no such harassment at all. What do women who came of age 30+ years ago know that our young women don't? It breaks my heart to think that women who attended school in the early part of this century were never taught about Grrl Power, and instead rely on the kindness of strangers for their safety.

Yea verily, we must redouble our efforts at teaching our neighbors' daughters how strong they are! That, or recruit an army of grannies to escort them on the Underground until they learn how to survive in the big city.

Andy

Don't hate her too much, she is a psychologically broken creature of pain, who will probably kill herself one of these days.

Just ignore her.

David

Jordan Peterson’s current celebrity and its attendant demands for a swift auto-da-fé perfectly illustrate this part of her thesis.

I’d imagine that the possibility of a shift in culture and perception, even a small one, may be particularly alarming if what’s being threatened is to a large extent based on affectation and pretending - an activity to which “social justice” advocates seem to devote an awful lot of time. As noted upthread, I think that’s a big part of Peterson’s sudden popularity – he offered a reminder that one can choose not to pretend.

Governor Squid

Don't hate her too much, she is a psychologically broken creature of pain, who will probably kill herself one of these days.

More likely that the 'creature of pain' will cause ceaseless pain in those around her, causing them to take their own lives, or at least to consider whether it might be the better option.

If one cannot hate somebody who inflicts misery on others, then what's left?

dcardno

...in 1989 where Marc Lépine Gamil Rodrigue Liass Gharbi* killed 14 female engineering students.

FTFY

*as he was known for more than half his life

R. Sherman

It breaks my heart to think that women who attended school in the early part of this century were never taught about Grrl Power, and instead rely on the kindness of strangers for their safety.

Early this century, my now-adult daughter played defensive midfield for her co-ed middle school soccer team. At some point, she'd endured the "Mom Talk" upon reaching adolescence. I gave her the "Dad Talk" about protecting herself.

So, we're in the middle of a game, when she's confronting the opposing striker. There's some scuffling which I couldn't see, but the whistle blows, at which point, she squares up and gives the opponent a right jab to the face sending him sprawling to the grass. The referee comes up and pulls the red card. Shockingly, he gave it to the kid on the turf. Daughter was booked with a yellow and sent off for five minutes. (Fortunately, the ref had seen the whole thing and exacted punishments accordingly.)

As she was leaving the field, head held high, I asked what that was about. Quoth: "He grabbed one of my boobs."

The end.

WTP

co-ed middle school soccer team...."He grabbed one of my boobs."

Kinda curious why in this day and age there should be co-ed soccer? If it wasn't obvious that the boy had overtly grabbed her, I'd guess it was simply an accident of a semi-contact sport.

I worked as a volunteer student mentor a couple decades ago and one of my students was a small-for-his-age but sinewy and scrappy 14 year old wrestler. As there were no girls' wrestling at the time (don't know if there even is now but I do know of girls' weightlifting) and him being in the lightest weight class, he sometimes had to wrestle girls. He and I had a couple discussions about this. This is a bad idea. A very, very bad idea. And I believe some of the trouble this young man got into later in that school year was at least partly attributable to the psychological conflict they put this young man into.

WTP

Oh..and meant to be clear, I'm not blaming your daughter for over reacting, if even indeed she did so. I acknowledge I could be completely wrong about my guess. But that's the root of the problem, per the second half of my post. Why create such situations?

Pogonip

You get the girls inadvertently grabbed all the time in co-ed classes in the grappling arts such as ju-jutsu. Everyone survives. What’s REALLY embarrassing is those “martial farts” that pop out now and then while you’re bouncing about on the mat playing samurai Twister.

R. Sherman

@WTP

I asked the ref after the game. It was quite flagrant evidently. Also the opposing coach didn't complain and neither did the offender nor his parents, who dragged him to the car when he was sent off. So, I'm relatively confident it was not an accident.

As for the co-ed business, some of the schools need both boys and girls to field a team. (Ours won a championship, BTW. Our female striker set a record for goals scored.)

In my state, there is no girls' wrestling, so the girls wrestle with the boys. (I confess a bit of old-fogey-ness here. Wrestling girls should be done in the back seat of a Trans-Am as God intended. But I digress.) It doesn't seem to be an issue surprisingly. (Youngest is a H.S. wrestler.) The boys don't want to lose to a girl, so there's no mercy.

neal

When courtship rituals became rude stuff went sideways.

Forced shaming. Felt like a game that went too far. No bowing or pretense or blushing.

Flop sweat and clumsiness used to be glorious. Like learning to play the hurdygurdy.

To cackling old grandmas and such.

Trilby

@WTP

Given that he looks as aboriginal as one would expect a Windsor to look...can anyone hazard a guess as to what percent?

The cynical answer would be: just enough to access any special grants for indigenous athletes.

Fred the Fourth

"in 1989 where Marc Lépine / Gamil Rodrigue Liass Gharbi killed 14 female engineering students."

I was an engineer working in Silicon Valley when he did this. I was so shocked that I wore a black armband the next day, even though I am not the kind of person who ever went in for such displays.

It was only at the end of the day that I realized two things: 1) It was Dec. 7, i.e. Pearl Harbor Day, and 2) I was working at a US division of a Japanese company, full of Japanese nationals and ex-pats.

No one said anything, then or later, about the incident. I'm not even sure if any of them were aware of the Lepine massacre.

Richard Cranium

"You get the girls inadvertently grabbed all the time in co-ed classes in the grappling arts such as ju-jutsu. Everyone survives. What’s REALLY embarrassing is those “martial farts” that pop out now and then while you’re bouncing about on the mat playing samurai Twister."

Your mileage may vary.

During an unarmed combat class that I took at West Point back in the day, I had a female classmate laying on my back with her tits on both sides of my neck while I was in the intermediate step of throwing her over my shoulder (by the numbers, of course). After the throw was completed, it was her turn to throw me over her shoulder. Step one, as it so happens, is for the thrower to thrust the thrower's buttocks into the throwee's crotch to get leverage for the throw.

I doubt that she found it erotic when I did it to her, but the reverse definitely was. I didn't embarrass myself, but it was close.

WTP

Everyone survives.

Yes. My concern isn't so much an immediate one with the young women as it is with the young men. And not the young men's egos either. Young men, 13, 14, 15 year olds engaging in semi-violent contact with young women, tossing them about like rag dolls and then the young men expected to become perfect gentlemen with likely other girls an hour later is a lot to ask of the typical adult male. And then, at this much later time, the girls, most likely not the ones encountered on the field of "play", will have their share of the trouble. Yes, at 13 or 14 or so they are similar in size and maaaaybe strength. But changes are happening rapidly at that age. And again, I had long conversations with a young man who was, I thought, handling the situation OK in spite of some of the things he expressed to me. See, way back then I sort of bought into the Narrative a bit myself. This was one of the first things that opened my eyes to how wrong it was.

Y. Knott

" but the whistle blows, at which point, she squares up and gives the opponent a right jab to the face sending him sprawling to the grass "

- I don't even know your daughter, but I'm VERY proud of her (as I know you are; got daughters of my own), and I wish there were a whole lot more like her! You GO girl!

I come from a strange dynamic ( - though I admit, not nearly as strange as some of the Links on David's site! - ); at the time I lived near where Gamil Rodrigue Liass Gharbi perpetrated his outrage, and I've prayed ever since that if I'd been in that classroom, or found myself in its analogue today, I'd have more stones than to walk fearfully out with the rest of the 'men' and leave the girls to their fate; Victoria Soto was who I hope I'd emulate. It was an awful time, and Canada still suffers from it - it's always part of the ongoing rationale for "more gun-control" here: always.

It should be mentioned, he'd been serially-abused by his estranged father, and was a seriously fvcked-up individual all his life. The M.U.C. Police called his mother and sister to retrieve his body; they refused it, and he was buried in an unmarked grave at Montreal expense.

Daniel Ream

Don't hate her too much, she is a psychologically broken creature of pain, who will probably kill herself one of these days.

She doesn't trip my BPD-O-Meter. She's exactly what she seems to be: a child of too much privilege and not enough discipline, saying outrageous things in public for attention and secretly craving a strong-willed man who won't fall for her shit tests.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

For Amazon US use this link .

Your filthy consumerism supports this blog.

Blogroll