David Thompson
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September 20, 2018

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Alice

Readers may also wish to imagine a room full of feminists in which no arguments occur.

Triggered.

The Sage

an action-packed superhero film in which every female character agrees wholeheartedly with every other female character

Not yet a film, but there is this comic, whose adaptation we are all awaiting with bated breath.

Clam

So she's only allowed to punch men?

Frank

By the looks of her she is a stern old trout.

Joan

a complete stitch-up, a hollowing out of the sisterhood.

Feminists arguing is men's fault because everything is men's fault. :-)

[+]

the titular heroine

ISWYDT

Squires

What exactly is this Male Gaze I keep hearing of supposed to be?

A death-ray, like the eye of Balor?

An estrogen suppression field emitter?

A price scanner that refuses to acknowledge that a cute top is on sale?

R. Sherman

Every time I think we've reached "Peak Problematic," lo does some Guardian columnist prove me wrong.

David

Every time I think we’ve reached “Peak Problematic,”

The woe of the feminist is eternal and inconsolable.

RNB

The Male Gaze that crushes the self-esteem of women is akin to the Women's Hair Rays that drive Muslim men mad with lust.

David

Heh.

Sharon

But it’s ok when a man who claims to be a woman hits a real woman.
https://www.feministcurrent.com/2018/04/27/trans-identified-male-tara-wolf-charged-assault-hyde-park-attack/

David

But it’s ok when a man who claims to be a woman hits a real woman.

Ah, Feminist Current, “Canada’s leading feminist website.” I thought that rang a bell.

dw

an otherwise unremarkable trailer,

Good music though.

David

Good music though.

Yes, though the music licensed for the trailers rarely has anything to do with the score used in the actual film. I think the problem is that the trailer, at least this first one, is a bit unfocused - it doesn’t have a ‘wow’ shot and doesn’t convey much about the story, or give much reason to care about the main character. But I am looking forward to seeing the Skrulls in action.

NielsR

Right, so....

Female Nazi's get a pass, because it's problematic for anyone to punch them?
Women punching men is presumably an unacceptable demand for women to endanger themselves, therefore all fighting will be men vs men. As usual. But this will select for more combative personalities in men, because reasons.

I'm over thinking this, aren't I?

David

I’m over thinking this, aren’t I?

It’s a Zoe Williams article. It’s hard not to.

ComputerLabRat

Readers may also wish to imagine a room full of feminists in which no arguments occur. Perhaps a more fanciful proposition.

Verily. We will have mastered the intricacies of cold fusion before that ever happens.

Probably a more realistic imagining would be the number of nanoseconds elapsed before the first argument breaks out.

But it’s ok when a man who claims to be a woman hits a real woman.

None of those 'woke' feminists have the balls to criticize that. Nothing problematic there, nosirree.

Adam

Late breaking news from Laurie Penny:

https://longreads.com/2018/09/18/no-i-will-not-debate-you/

Laurie Penny is an award-winning journalist, essayist, public speaker, writer, activist, internet nanocelebrity and author of six books. Her most recent book, Bitch Doctrine, was published by Bloomsbury in 2017.

R. Sherman

Laurie Penny: "No, I will not debate you, because I'm self-evidently correct in all things."

I guess that settles it then.

Steve E

From the Laurie Penny piece:

"Too many well-meaning liberals are clinging with ten fingernails to the idea that their institutions are robust enough to withstand fascism."

There are far more, like Penny, clinging to the idea that communism will work if properly implemented. This despite the body count.

David

There are far more, like Penny, clinging to the idea that communism will work if properly implemented.

But her motives are so lofty and pure.

Squires

15 minutes (3,795 words)

I made it maybe two minutes in before whirring on down to see if there was a comments section. No dice. Did catch her spitting venom at Milo right towards the end there, which is funny. I recall how unusually civil she was towards him when they were actually face to face. Well, face to face and her without a mob of “allies” to sweep her along.

Who would have thought the denouncement targeting her after word got out would be so effective at putting this brave butterfly of the revolution back into her permitted place?

The Male Gaze that crushes the self-esteem of women is akin to the Women's Hair Rays that drive Muslim men mad with lust.

So Disappointed Father Vision it is then.

MC

Apart from… some obligatory superhero amnesia and a bit of kinetic energy, the main thing we see is the Captain punching an old lady.

For a moment there, I thought this might be a step up for the Marvel Cosmic Boreiverse. Then you go and spoil it all, David.

Steve E

But her motives are so lofty and pure

Watch one season of Big Brother or Survivor and all will be revealed.

Duke Magoo

I see a fair number of heroic women beating up men in movies and on TV lately. I do watch a lot of "B" class shows. They are easy on the head.

However, in real life, any man can beat the crap out of almost any women. Cage fighter women exempt. Huge weight disparity is exempt. So on average women cannot beat up men, especially the badass men they are portrayed to be beating in the movies and on TV.

There is no superman or super girl, that is just a comic fantasy.

Jeff Wood

I am old enough to remember that the British Army used to ban women, even uniformed women,from boxing tournaments.

The reason was that some got too carried away by the male on male violence.

Pogonip

Shorter Laurie: “That dude wiped the floor with me in our last debate and I’m not going within a hundred miles of him!”

H

"No, I will not debate you, because I'm self-evidently correct in all things."

Has Penny Dreadful ever replied to anything about her here?

Daniel Ream

So Disappointed Father Vision it is then.

Say it with me, kids: "I hate you Daaaaaad/Pay attention to meeeeee"

Superman would never be allowed to stoop so low

Well, she's absolutely right about that. The comics industry has such issues with an unambiguous moral paragon that they've been tarnishing, deconstructing and rebooting Superman for some twenty years now. Add that to the Annie Oakley syndrome and now you've got Marvel's half-assed Superman expy punching old ladies.

I'm going to disagree with our illustrious host (no, put the pickled eggs away, David, it's just comics) on the "oh well, if she'd just done the research she'd have known it was a Skrull" thing. For one, the vast majority of people going to see superhero movies don't know squat about the milieu or the back story or superheroes generally; they're just going to see a blockbuster movie because that's what they do of an evening. The trailer has to convince them to see this one, so the trailer has to stand alone.

For two, regardless of backstory or even genre, men generally don't like seeing women getting beaten up by anyone. It's a visceral reaction; it's why the girlfriend-in-the-fridge trope is a trope. Showing your Annie Oakley hero doing this in a trailer is staggeringly tone-deaf at best. That said, given the subtle undermining of the social justice pieties going on in the MCU, it wouldn't surprise me if the writers aren't halfway trying to make Captain Marvel unsympathetic.

Readers are invited to imagine the thrill of an action-packed superhero film in which every female character agrees wholeheartedly with every other female character, being sisterly and supportive at all times, purely to avoid giving pleasure to men.

As Richard Meyer on the YouTube channel Diversity & Comics has been pointing out for more than a year now, this is the absolute state of Marvel comics in 2018.

David

Has Penny Dreadful ever replied to anything about her here?

No, not to me. I can’t imagine why.

I’m going to disagree with our illustrious host

[ Faints with indignation. ]

Pst314

“This despite the body count.“

For many of them that truly is not a bug but a feature.

David

Showing your Annie Oakley hero doing this in a trailer is staggeringly tone-deaf at best… it wouldn't surprise me if the writers aren’t halfway trying to make Captain Marvel unsympathetic.

It’s an odd choice, especially for a first teaser, though I doubt it’s there to “stitch up” the sisterhood or bring pleasure to the all-powerful Patriarchy. And although the thing makes a fuss about our new hero being female, including a play on the words her and hero, as if I should care one way or the other, it didn’t actually make me warm to her, or feel intrigued, particularly. Marvel’s first trailers are often the bumpiest, so maybe the second one will do a better job.

[ Edited. ]

Killer Marmot

In college newspapers, movie reviews are often not about whether a movie was well made and entertaining, but whether aspects of it were politically problematic. I see The Guardian has adopted the same approach.

It's a reviewing style I find quite useful. If a movie is not problematic for these young Red Guard then there's likely no hope for it.

David

Meanwhile, on Twitter.

Pogonip

Hi Duke,

There’d be a lot less nuttiness if all feminists were required to attend light-contact martial arts classes. When you are holding the pad and your partner, who is holding back, staggers you when he hits it, that shows you that grrrrl power is strictly a fantasy. And I have no problem with grrrrl power fantasy; it’s when it infects real life, say, the military, that it becomes dangerous.

Daniel Ream

it didn’t actually make me warm to her, or feel intrigued, particularly

Movie trailers are a lost art, sadly.

Captain Marvel is an odd duck. Feig has demonstrated that he isn't going to be a slave to the comic continuity, but here we have Earth's Mightiest Heroes taking a back bench to a C-list hero whose comic has been rebooted three times in the last year and a half because readers just don't like the book or the character. It seems an odd character to turn into your apex hero, especially since the entire point of the character Sentry was why Marvel Comics never had a Superman-equivalent.

David

Captain Marvel is an odd duck.

As a wee seedling, I did actually buy an issue of Ms Marvel, as she was, but only because there was nothing else on the rack that looked more intriguing and it was a long bus journey to my grandma’s, so a comic, any comic, was essential. I was never a huge fan, though I’ve not followed more recent iterations. Again, I’m more interested in what they’ll do with the Skrulls, whose appearance seems long overdue.

David

And speaking of feminism.

They know we can hear them, right?

R. Sherman

And speaking of feminism.

In fairness to the feminists, (I know, I know. Why?), the attitude is not unusual. The idea that due process is merely a way to protect the guilty tends to fly out the window the moment one's kids gets a speeding ticket and one's faced with increased insurance premiums. Suddenly, those pesky amendments to Constitution take on a significance second only to the fiery finger of God chiseling out The Pentateuch and handing it to Moses.

Hopp Singg

Apart from… some obligatory superhero amnesia and a bit of kinetic energy, the main thing we see is the Captain punching an old lady.

Hasn't David Hogg, amongst others, already made it clear by now that the elderly, with all their wrongthink and cogent arguments that support it, are to be hated and swept aside as trash?

Punching an old woman in the trailer was no accident. The skrull (I think, first time I've heard that term) could have looked like anyone, right? Or the trailer could have shown it change form when hit. Or whatever. But they wanted to hit an old woman; it's celebratory to them.

Daniel Ream

Again, I’m more interested in what they’ll do with the Skrulls, whose appearance seems long overdue.

Seems like a bit of a slam dunk, doesn't it, what with the shapeshifting meaning you don't have to spend quite so much money on CGI. IIRC, when the first behind-the-scenes photos from the set of The Avengers leaked, the presumption was that the green-bodysuited stuntmen were going to be Skrulls in post-production.

I wonder if some of it isn't the terrible hash of IP rights. Marvel has never had the "hey, that's my villain" compartmentalization that DC does. Do the Skrulls belong to the Fantastic Four or Captain Marvel (and more importantly, their respective IP holders)?

Punching an old woman in the trailer was no accident.

Somebody certainly made the choice to put it in there. But the MCU has been assiduously avoiding the usual virtue-signaling pieties, so I'm curious to see where they go with this.

Sam

Meh, is she really that stupid though? You spent, what, 30 minutes of your life giving her attention? How many Guardian articles' circulation relies entirely on hate reading?

If they paid her it'd be a great living relative to the work involved.

David

IIRC, when the first behind-the-scenes photos from the set of The Avengers leaked, the presumption was that the green-bodysuited stuntmen were going to be Skrulls in post-production.

Yes, at the time I was hoping they would be, though with hindsight it would’ve been too crammed - and would have under-used a good adversary. I presume what’s being set up now is a re-tooled version of the Secret Invasion story.

Do the Skrulls belong to the Fantastic Four or Captain Marvel (and more importantly, their respective IP holders)?

I presume the rights went to Fox along with the Fantastic Four, though I don’t know. Either way, I suspect Mr Feige can now buy back pretty much anything he wants.

Somebody certainly made the choice to put it in there.

It’s a little jarring without at least a clue as to the nature of the villains and their talents. Though I suppose the seeming randomness prompts the kind of discussion we’re having right now. And contrived articles in the Guardian.

How many Guardian articles’ circulation relies entirely on hate reading?

More, I should think, with every passing day.

The Phantom

How utterly typical of the SJWs.

I saw that trailer about an hour after it hit the web. I saw Captain Marvel -hammer- the smiling old lady with a full power punch, and I swear the very first thing that came to my mind was "Skrulls! Cool!"

Anybody who's read more than one comic book in their life already knows why she's pounding the old lady. That's a no-brainer for any nerd worth her salt. Zoe Williams is clearly not of the Nerd Clan. She does not ken The Lore.

"What the Williams has said is unimportant, and we do not hear her words."

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