David Thompson
Subscribe

Categories

Blog powered by Typepad

« Friday Ephemeraren’t | Main | Impossible To Satisfy, By Design »

September 22, 2018

Comments

Bill Peschel

When I worked for a newspaper in Rock Hill, South Carolina, I worked with black pressmen who shifted their speech depending on whether they were talking to the other pressmen and whities like me.

Karen M

Professor John Rickford says, “Black Vernacular English” is viewed as less “trustworthy, intelligent and well-educated” than so-called standard “white” English,

And so we'll encourage black students to sound uneducated and untrustworthy. What could go wrong?

David

I scarcely need to point out that the proponents of this policy, quoted above, have chosen not to follow their own advice.

[+]

A sociolinguist from Stanford University claims the way African-Americans speak leads to discrimination across the board

None of the black Americans I know (all successful, middle class) talk like ghetto kids. Must be a coincidence.

Pogonip

Hi Bill,

Yes, I worked in an office with a lot of black people, and they too switched dialects at need. The ability to do so may have helped them get into that office.

R. Sherman

From where originates the conceit that "black English" is the only dialect which elicits disapproval? My extended family hail from deep in the Ozarks and I noticed as a young child, my dad would shift his speech patterns at family gatherings. At home he practiced a very precise, grammatically correct and nondescript Midwestern dialect. I asked him about it once, and he said, for better or worse, people will judge you by the way you speak and write. "If you go to college speaking like a hillbilly, no one will take you seriously." It's not about skin color, it's about class.

David

It’s not about skin color, it’s about class.

And expecting the rest of the world to not make judgements about you based on what you say and write is pointless, indeed bizarre. Again, it’s like shouting at the rain.

Sam Duncan

"If you go to college speaking like a hillbilly, no one will take you seriously.”

Funny you should say that. The earliest instance of the use of “axe” for “ask” I'm aware of is by Charles Farrar Browne's character Artemus Ward, a (white) showman dealing in “feroshus wild beasts and moral wax figgers” from “Baldinsville, Injianny”, starting some time in the 1850s. So it's not inherently black, but it's been used to indicate poor education for over 150 years.

Also, that switch of accent and dialect depending on company is being used by nationalists here in Scotland to claim that there's a distinct “Scots” language (which they can elevate to official status, teach in schools, and drive a wedge between us and our compatriots to the south). Members of the Holyrood assembly stand and speak as if they were addressing a football crowd (and wonder why the place isn't taken seriously). The arguments are very similar, but lent spurious credence by the fact they're not only claiming to speak for a minority, but for all of us. There are asshats the world over.

(I highly recommend Artemus Ward, by the way. The complete works are on Project Gutenberg, and there's not much of them. Browne died in his 30s. He was a contemporary of, and knew, Mark Twain, who considered him his superior. Had he lived as long, I'm convinced he'd have been at least as well known.)

David

used by nationalists here in Scotland

Sam is so well-spoken that I sometimes forget he’s from the Barren, Godless North.

Sam Duncan

Perhaps I should throw in a “Hoots, mon!” from time to time. Whatever that means.

Rob Crawford

Ya know, I suspect the insistence on blacks NOT using proper English has deeper roots in slavery than insistence on proper English does. Easy way to mark the slave class, when there are free (and slave-owning) blacks around...

R. Sherman

Stand to! Insta-lanche!.

JosiahBartlet10

I worked with black pressmen who shifted their speech depending on whether they were talking to the other pressmen and whities like me.

I think a lot of people do that. Former President Obama, certainly. I do, depending. Trick is, to never talk down to someone.

Kzen

So basically language is racist...

Bill Peschel

Pogonip;

Thanks. There was one particular moment that impressed this point on me. There was an open window between the newsroom and the composition room. I needed to talk to a pressman and stuck my head through the window. The black guys were talking to each other (imagine the jive guys in "Airplane!", only far easier to understand and with a Southern accent).

One of them noticed me, and he and I hashed out the problem before he returned to his friends to finish telling his story back in his original dialect.

Amusing, but very educational at the same time.

Sort-Of-Mad Max

Frank Zappa wrestled with the concept in a way that would certainly be considered totally racist today and he should be banned and I probably should go to Hell and hang out with Hitler for posting this (NSFW):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=152&v=ugFTcRh0Q6I

George

A few random sentences from Joel Chandler Harris could have the professor scratching his head.

"Go 'long, honey! Swaje 'er bag. W'en cows don' get milk't, der bag swells, en youk'n hear um a moanin' en a beller'n des like dey wuz gittin' hurtid."

joe

Democrats have always hated those people since before the Civil War. This is just their most recent attempts to keep the blacks down.

Joan

It's like when you see British kids write "I would of".

David

Stand to! Insta-lanche!.

We need fresh towels, stat.

David

It’s like when you see British kids write “I would of”.

I see that a lot. In fact, I see it so often I can only assume that it’s not being corrected in class. By the educators paid to do so.

Spiny Norman

Trick is, to never talk down to someone.

Hillary Clinton, and John Kerry before her, seemingly never figured that out.

(In both cases, though, I think they knew full well they were talking down to people, but assumed their audience was too ignorant (ig'nant?) to realize it.)

David

Easy way to mark the slave class,

Despite the “social justice” pieties mouthed by these people, you have to look at the likely outcomes of their policies and demands. In light of which, it’s hard to see them as good people doing good deeds. To the contrary, they seem more like saboteurs or self-flattering parasites, feeding their vanities at the expense of the very students they pretend to care about. And so Dr Strouse, mentioned above, advises students to say “fuck you” to potential employers during job interviews - because it makes him look edgy in front of his equally vain and fatuous peers.

And because, you know, saying “fuck you” to a potential employer is always a winning strategy for those seeking work. Say, students saddled with debt.

David

See also Dr Caprice Hollins.

Mike in Seattle

50 years ago, this bigotry would have been expressed as “well, its just not fair to expect hem to do better”. So the same sad sacks have found a new correct way to express the exact same bullshit; the lowers just can’t be expected to do all that much. The only difference is now we’re supposed to celebrate these “woke” bigots instead of condemn them.

That some serious propaganda skills right there.

Steve E

Hillary Clinton, and John Kerry before her, seemingly never figured that out.

Hillary had real street cred. She got hot sauce in her bag.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/hillary-clinton-pandering-radio/479004/

Steve E

By the way, hot sauce is just the thing to take Wild Camel Hump Fat to the next level.

Steve E

Oops wrong link on the Hump Fat. https://desertfarms.com/products/hump-fat-14oz

David

Do help yourselves.

David

If anyone has trouble with comments not appearing, email me and I’ll rattle the spam filter.

ZZMike

Bill Peschel: "... I worked with black pressmen who shifted their speech depending on whether they were talking to the other pressmen and whities like me."

Just like Hillary and Obama....

Pogonip

Speaking of food, David just offered me a free pickled “egg.”

I think that is a terrible way to treat me on my birthday.

David

Congratulations. Goodness, you look, er… ten years younger than whatever age you are.

Pogonip

59.

David

[ Swipes Spiny Norman’s drink, slides it along bar to Pogonip.]

On the house, madam.

Pogonip

Over Spiny Norman shouting indignantly, I say “Thank you, David! And Norman!”

I sneeze in threes

OT but,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/why_we_are_proud_of_our_fat_bodies

DevonChap

OT.

Woke Al Jazeera.

https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1042997097073725440?s=19

It is white women who maltreat Indian chambermaids in the Gulf States obvs.

David
Uh, man’s sole “jabringing” object disfigure religion trauma and nubs, uh, the, inside the trauma of representation that turns into the black child devouring and identifying with the stories and into the white culture brought up, uh, de de de de de, dink, and add subjectively like a white man, the black man!

Not entirely unrelated. Video here, and not a parody.

Daniel Ream

Over Spiny Norman shouting indignantly, I say “Thank you, David! And Norman!”

This place is starting to resemble alt.callahans.

R. Sherman

Uh, man’s sole “jabringing” . . .

The whole purpose of that sort of "debate"--I think I just threw up in my mouth dignifying that display as "debate," even with the scare quotes--is to reduce the process to "I am X. Therefore, I win" or "You are Y. Therefore you lose." That is, all reference to an objective reality must be purged, except for some set of characteristics which define the speaker's identity. Except, even those sets of characteristics don't constitute a "reality" if the speaker varies in the slightest from his/her identity's approved narrative.

Spiny Norman

Hey there! What happened to my drink? [indignantly]

I make a simple trip to the gents, and it's like I was never even here. Harumph.

William of Ockham

So, in summary;

1. A minority group chooses to speak in a certain way which is deemed imprecise and unintelligent by the majority.
2. This results in negativity be outcomes for the minority group.
3. Rather than the minority group choosing an alternative way of speaking, the solution is for the entire population of the majority group to change their perception.

Is there an historical precedent or example we could examine to determine how feasible this solution is?

William of Ockham

Muphry’s Law there on point 2.

Squires

“If you go to college speaking like a hillbilly, no one will take you seriously."

My father was born in the holler and has less discernible accent than I do. It’s no mystery why, considering the career he chose.

I somehow doubt these enlightened academics would raise my white hide to Special Victim Status were I to use crik or yins in conversation with them. They wouldn't stand to gain anything.

Just like Hillary and Obama....

More painful than listening to Obama attempt to speak as if he were not a rich white kid from Hawaii was watching the suckers who lapped it up.

It is white women who maltreat Indian chambermaids in the Gulf States obvs.

Useful idiots never want to see themselves as used idiots. That is what makes them useful idiots.

Alec Rawls

If black parents were able to choose their children's education Black English would have disappeared seventy years ago, making this the small "r" republican ideal, where the PEOPLE are sovereign, where the people are master and government is the slave, but this was fundamental republican relationship inverted by the advent of America's socialist monopoly on education which stripped black parents of their choice with the result that their children got stuck with a separate black form of English that their parents would never have chosen for them.

Monopoly is formed by barriers to entry. For Americans to send their children to private school, to schools of their choice, they have to pay twice for their children's education: once through taxes for the public school system and then a second time for private tuition. That double payment is an extraordinarily high barrier to entry, a full double price. Socialist education IS a monopoly, an EXTREME monopoly, to be precise.

"A republic if you can keep it," said Benjamin Franklin. In education we are not keeping it. We compromised our republic in the most fundamental of ways. Who parents choose to be the educators of their children is the moral reproductive system of society. We unplugged that choice with socialized education, we unplugged our moral reproductive system and handed our children over to the corruption of politicized government propagandists.

Democrats have few children but through our socialist monopoly on education they have succeeded in grabbing control of the minds of most of our nation's children. Conservative parents can try to offset this influence but it is not an influence that should ever exist in the first place. It's a fundamental violation of the fundamental principle of republicanism. It is government assuming the role of master, making our children it's slaves.

Black English is just one pernicious consequence, establishing a separatism for blacks starting with the very way black children learn to talk that keeps blacks on the Democratic Party plantation, but the evil goes far beyond this and afflicts all races, indoctrinating ALL children into radically illiberal and un-American ideologies based on group identity instead of our nation's founding principles of liberty and natural right.

Pogonip

Hi Squires, my dad was from Pennsyltucky, a holler-like region. He never learned how to accent-switch, possibly because there was no need. The Army was always wanting him to go to OCS and every civilian job he had wanted him to go into mgmt or at least be foreman. If the professor is trying to make the point that a heavy blackcent will make these things less likely to happen to you, he may be correct, but encouraging that same heavy blackcent seems like a terribly destructive way to make that point.

The smartest person I’ve ever known had a blackcent, and had to leave her organization to get promoted. But women with much heavier accents were far above her in that organization, so maybe, as always, it’s not how you speak but who you know.

As long as we’re discussing accents, I’d much, much rather hear ANY other accent than the nasal drone of the UMC politically correct white American female. Travel writer Fred Reed says these women sound like they’re talking through a kazoo, so now I think of them as the Kazoo Girls. You don’t hear this in the upper-upper class, it seems confined to women of the courtier class. Let’s pray it doesn’t spread.

JuliaM

I'll just leave this here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/21/oxford-english-dictionary-young-people-slang

JuliaM

"How I speak, as a non-white woman from a working-class background, has been regularly policed throughout my life. To take just one example: the university tutor who marked me down on a poetry assignment because I “miscounted the syllables required”. The word hour is two syllables in my accent, but one syllable in the Queen’s English."

Oh, the injustice!

David

50 years ago, this bigotry would have been expressed as “well, it’s just not fair to expect hem to do better”… The only difference is now we’re supposed to celebrate these “woke” bigots…

As noted in the Bad Medicine thread, it’s almost grimly comical. The students are encouraged to be hyper-critical, indeed delusional, regarding the motives of white people, even to the point of dismissing the correction of spelling and grammar as some egregious, racially motivated act of oppression. And yet the motives of their educators, the ones who tell them these things, and whose status and careers depend on cultivating tribalism and paranoid resentment, and a kind of pernicious flattery, are spared any similar questioning, or, so far as I can see, any questioning at all.

So much for “critical thinking.”

And so, students who leave university saddled with debt and a worthless pseudo-qualification, and who subsequently repel employers with their chippy attitude and grammatical incompetence, will presumably rationalise any rejection, any hardship, as proof of the evils of “whiteness” and the “racist society” that their lecturers banged on about. Because the more obvious explanation – that they were dupes, taken for a ride by race-hustling parasites - would be much too bruising to their egos.

Chester Draws

It doesn't even work on its own terms.

If black ways of speaking become accepted, then everyone will use them. And that will become standard, and then there will still be wrong dialects. This is a game the uneducated *cannot* win.

Unless you are mental enough to believe that there can be two "established" dialects, based on your race, with everyone having to understand both. Apartheid used to be considered the worst system, now it's encouraged?

It's not like we all speak the established English of a 100 years ago either. It's moved quite a long way down towards common speech.

Geoffrey

"How I speak, as a non-white woman from a working-class background, has been regularly policed throughout my life. To take just one example: the university tutor who marked me down on a poetry assignment because I “miscounted the syllables required”. The word hour is two syllables in my accent, but one syllable in the Queen’s English."

As a non-working class white man who speaks the Freedom's English, it's a two-syllable pronunciation here too. Also a name spelled like that is pronounced "thaymes" and there is absolutely, positively no 'f' in lieutenant. It seems pretty clear to me that the reason the British lost their empire is because they don't know how to pronounce their own words.

Ten

The word hour is two syllables in my accent, but one syllable in the Queen’s English."

Here in Flyover US we hear on the car radio, "...this is the BBC News ARHHHHH" and always feel compelled to repeat it at least a few times with emphasis...

David

It seems pretty clear to me that the reason the British lost their empire is because they don’t know how to pronounce their own words.

Heh. Any minute now the whole al-oo-min-um debate will flare up again.

Ted S., Catskill Mtns., NY, USA

Speaking of food, David just offered me a free pickled “egg.”

I think that is a terrible way to treat me on my birthday.

No refunds; credit note only.

Custard Cream

Geoffrey, 'lieutenant' was originally 'levee tenant', hence its English pronunciation.

Pogonip

David has Ted well trained.

Everyone else continues incorrigible.

Pst314

Thomas Sowell wrote, in Black Rednecks and White Liberals, that “Black English” does not have its origins in Africa:

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/1997/0127/5902048a.html

Words and phrases like “ain’t” or “I be” and “you be” do not come from any African language. They came from the parts of England from which many white Southerners originated. The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Languagepinpoints the regions of the British Isles from which words like “chitterlings” or “chittlin’s” came or where people said “ain’t” and used other terms now thought to be “black English.” ;

In short, what is called “black English” is just as white as any other English. It is a dialect that died out as education and standardization of the language proceeded over the generations.
(End quote)

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Geoffrey, 'lieutenant' was originally 'levee tenant', hence its English pronunciation.

Not really.

Pst314

“Why can't the English teach their children how to speak?
Norwegians learn Norwegian; the Greeks are taught their
Greek....”

billdehaan

It's not about skin color, it's about class.

Also familiarity, aka the dreaded "tribalism".

In other words, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do".

When I was younger, I was bounced between two of the colonies: South Africa, and Canada. While both are English-speaking (yes, yes, both have other official languages, I am aware), an English-speaking Boer and an English-speaking Canuck sound completely foreign to one another.

As a result, I was always the outsider at school, because I sounded "funny". I quickly adapted, so as to not sound like I just got off the boat, and the number of schoolyard fights decreased significantly. And then I'd swap countries again, and there was usually a two week period in the airlock during which I had to switch back to the "correct" accent, so as not to be mocked.

To this day, I can still do it, though very rarely. But put me in a room of Afrikaaners, and within ten minutes my accent will be back, and I'll be saying "ag man" and "hey bro, howzit" without thinking. And when I do, the Boers in the room become a lot more accommodating than when I speak as a Canuck.

The problem with "black vernacular English" isn't that it's different, it's that it's ignorant. Much of the vernacular is the result of the language not being taught, or learned, completely, and so phonetic pronunciations work their way back into the language.

It does mark the speaker, not as stupid or inferior, but as un- or under-educated. When a 22 year old talks at the same linguistic level as a 5 year old in kindergarten, it's may be accepted and tolerated, but it should not be celebrated, let alone promoted as being the way forward.

billdehaan

“Why can't the English teach their children how to speak?

As the saying goes, the British are a people divided by a common tongue.

David

The problem with “black vernacular English” isn’t that it’s different, it’s that it’s ignorant. Much of the vernacular is the result of the language not being taught, or learned, completely,

And yet, our woke professors insist that standard English shouldn’t be “privileged” in class, or in academic writing, or during job interviews. But as noted before, if you’re an employer and trying to thin a pile of job applications, repeated errors of even simple grammar and spelling are, inevitably, going to be a big help in deciding which ones to ignore. Whether the professors like it or not, “alternative types of English” tend to send a message – of ignorance, carelessness and intellectual imprecision. And if someone is apparently too distracted to proofread their own job application, that’s unlikely to inspire great confidence.

And remember, we’re talking about university students. Our brightest and best.

Squires

Hi Squires, my dad was from Pennsyltucky, a holler-like region. He never learned how to accent-switch, possibly because there was no need. The Army was always wanting him to go to OCS and every civilian job he had wanted him to go into mgmt or at least be foreman.

He was born in Nowhere, WV, moved to the rural parts outside of Youngstown at the age of ten (where my mother’s side is from, and they speak Yinzer). His second go at college after Vietnam led to a career as a big deal project manager for AT&T and a transfer to NJ in the 1980s. Leading teams in a high tech, white collar industry on the East Coast, I expect he wouldn’t have done himself any favors retaining the speech of my extended family.

It is worth noting that most people I’ve known who spoke a “white” country dialect could and would reign it in as the situation called for it. And if you spoke with them using a more educated or formal vocabulary they still understood you. One of the problems with “ebonics” is that too many who learn to speak that way learn only to speak that way, and to think only in it too; not a promising development considering how often it acts as a sort of parroting pidgin, wherein phonetic imitation untethered from a literary understanding of words and phrases can run amok. Thus bon appetit can become bone apple tea.

...I’d much, much rather hear ANY other accent than the nasal drone of the UMC politically correct white American female.

The only nasal drone I find pleasing to hear is French Woman, and even that I blame squarely on my gonads.

The bigger problem with UMC PC WAF is that the speakers of it show just as little moral capacity or willingness for critical thought or honest self examination as your most ghetto of hoochies.

Sam Duncan

“The word hour is two syllables in my accent, but one syllable in the Queen’s English.”

Yes, and “film” is two syllables in Irish and western Scottish accents. (“Fillum/im”. It's a Gaelic influence, apparently.) But we accept that, for most people, it isn't. How hard is it to understand that standardization of language - a method of communication, let's not forget - isn't oppression?

“So much for 'critical thinking.'”

It all goes back to Marx. “The working class cannot believe anything anyone of the middle class says to them. Except, y'know... me, obviously. Everything I tell 'em is absolute gospel.”

“Not really.”

Yeah, nobody really knows where “leftenant” came from. “Lettenant” is common, although as far as I can make out not universal, in the Royal Navy.

“They came from the parts of England from which many white Southerners originated.”

Oh, yes. I'm fascinated by that sort of thing. The Southern American - and by extension, black American - dialect has a very West Country feel to it with all those “ain't”s and “be”s. The intonation and vowel sounds have changed down the years, of course, but I always find it hilarious when some rapper bloke thinks he's being all “street” and “gangsta” by, basically, talking like Worzel Gummidge.

Spiny Norman

As the saying goes, the British are a people divided by a common tongue.

Bill, I believe you missed the literary reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAYUuspQ6BY

Sam L.

Spiney, I believe the word you wanted is "ignernt".

Spiny Norman

Squires,

...not a promising development considering how often it acts as a sort of parroting pidgin, wherein phonetic imitation untethered from a literary understanding of words and phrases can run amok.

All I can do is shake my head at what I see on the tee-vee, when urban black "persons of interest" are interviewed by police. They throw "legalese" terms about freely, not knowing at all what any of it means. That the cops don't burst out laughing is a level of professionalism I don't posses.

Spiny Norman

Sam L.

Probably, yes, but also I know I've heard the "er" dropped, or at least virtually silent.

Pst314

They throw "legalese" terms about freely, not knowing at all what any of it means.

See “Booked On Phonics”. For instance:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Oswald%20Bates&=true

Oswald Bates

The character protrayed by Damon Wayans in the sketch comedy In Living Color who talks nonsense using a lot of big words and has no idea what he's talking. He usually talks to himself with gestures and facial expressions as if he is arguing with someone else.

"First of all, we must internalize the 'flatulation' of the matter by transmitting the effervescence of the 'Indianisian' proximity in order to further segregate the crux of my venereal infection. Now, if I may retain my liquids here for one moment. I'd like to continue the 'redundance' of my quote, unquote 'intestinal tract', you see because to preclude on the issue of world domination would only circumvent - excuse me, circumcise the revelation that reflects the 'Afro-disiatic' symptoms which now perpetrates the Jheri Curis activation. Allow me to expose my colon once again. The ramification inflicted on the incision placed within the Fallopian cavities serves to be holistic taken from the Latin word 'jalapeno'."

-- Oswald Bates, In Living Color season 1 ep 3
by Oswald Bates November 29, 2011

Diver Down

I grew up in rural Kentucky. I learned early on to switch accents. Now people here in the Northeast are surprised to learn I’m from fried chicken land. I don’t think people who speak as I do when I’m back home are ignorant. Quite the contrary in fact. However, I do know that you have to overcome certain prejudices if you speak like that in other places.

Funnily enough, my great uncle had to face the exact opposite problem. He grew up in New Jersey but moved to a farm in rural Kentucky. All his life he heard snide remarks about his accent.

Sam Duncan

Pst314, that's very similar to the sort of thing you'd hear on the old Amos & Andy show back in the '30s and '40s. Of course, they were really white guys so it was racist.

Black Ball

Some examples of Aboriginal Kriol here. Now being black myself, can't really see how this will help the job prospects of those who communicate this way, indeed if they ever get through school. It actually hurt my eyes trying to read it.
https://www.2m.com.au/blog-kimberley-kriol/

Daniel Ream

The word hour is two syllables in my accent, but one syllable in the Queen’s English.

It is one syllable. Otherwise all the filthy puns in Shakespeare's plays don't work.

Squires

He grew up in New Jersey but moved to a farm in rural Kentucky.

North or South? After I left Jersey the main thing was just teaching myself not to say fuck so much.

...can't really see how this will help the job prospects of those who communicate this way...

In the beginning I was doubtful, what with eggshell-striding insistence on the cromulence of Kriol as a language. When I got to the part where we are told it is a telecommunications company behind efforts that will only encourage people not to learn intelligible English...

I realize there may be times in life when you may need to supply Claymore mines to those who justify the “EXPLOSIVE IS POISONOUS IF EATEN” warnings, but it isn’t an ideal situation you should go out of your way to maintain.

Unfortunately we can likely predict with reasonable accuracy the screeching that would ensue if the telecom instead had spent its money sending English teachers into these communities. Also the palor of the loudest.

Harvardr

But a southern accent in a white person is still an indicator of intellectual and moral retardation...

fnord

So basically language is racist

========
Now you're catching on, so is this blog with its white background, and this spoon, and days ending in 'y'.

All hail The Holy Melanin™

Adam

"speaking like a hillbilly, no one will take you seriously"

It can work both ways. I knew an arson investigator who used his home-grown southern "good ol' boy" accent and demeanor to coax confessions from suspects by convincing them he was brainless and harmless.

Spiny Norman

Pst314,

The character protrayed by Damon Wayans in the sketch comedy In Living Color who talks nonsense using a lot of big words and has no idea what he's talking.

Oh gawd, I remember that one!

[+]

"Related"... https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/tori-45599862

Clam

Apparently, these are the intellectual fruits of “hacking traditional college debate’s white privilege problem.”

At first I thought the 'debate' video had to be a joke or one of your performance art things. What the f*ck has happened to universities?

David

At first I thought the ‘debate’ video had to be a joke

It’s an extraordinary thing. And for anyone with an expectation of standards, probably dismaying. But this is concentrated wokeness. Or as Professor Rickford puts it, “racial justice.”

And so the black students who participate in this farce are allowed to completely ignore the topic that they’re supposed to be debating, in favour of ludicrous and incoherent claims of victimhood, and are allowed to ignore time limits, and to ignore any semblance of logic or evidence or formal argument, any structure at all, and to spout what is for minutes on end actual gibberish, a kind of Dadaist jive. Because disregarding the rules for reciprocation, and shouting profanities at the moderators, is so daring and innovative. And so terribly authentic. The incoherent jabbering and screeching is what the organisers want to believe, and want us to believe, is some pure black essence.

So no racism there, obviously.

Grim comedy aside, you have to wonder what message is being sent to minority students by the rewarding of this half-witted claptrap. As I said in the earlier thread, the message seems to be that all rules can be broken with impunity, and all standards and proprieties dispensed with as and when convenient, provided you’re sufficiently black and pretend to be oppressed, while actually being cossetted and flattered at every turn. Or, “If you can’t actually structure a rational argument, never mind. Just keep shouting ‘racist!’ and flap your arms about.” Which is not, I suspect, a recipe for success outside of the Clown Quarter.

Oh, and it goes without saying the president of the Cross-Examination Debate Association, Paul Mabrey, dismissed criticism of the lack of standards as “thinly-veiled racism” and “the worst of our human bigotry… motivated by racism and fear.”

This is who they are, and this is how readily they will lie.

Lancastrian Oik

For some unfathomable reason, trying to post links with an iPad results in a sort of HTML Chernobyl.

So, to avoid upsetting our host, the Oik suggests giving a listen to “Ign’ant And Shit” by the very wonderful Screamin’ Jay Hawkins, who has some very salient points to make regarding patois.

Trevor

Damon Wayans.

Mention of his comedy creation reminded me of this parody of one of Jordan Peterson's recent gibberglot debate opponents:
https://youtu.be/999QkUU_ZU4

David

trying to post links with an iPad results in a sort of HTML Chernobyl.

Here’s the link.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

...who talks nonsense using a lot of big words and has no idea what he's talking.

Odd, I remember him being in prison in those sketches, not a politician.

R. Sherman

Sort of Related. Ben Shapiro interviews Jason Whitlock, American sports journalist. Very much worth your time. An example of people reasoning together.

Hal

...who talks nonsense using a lot of big words and has no idea what he's talking.

Odd, I remember him being in prison in those sketches, not a politician.

First of all . . .

Daniel Ream

I knew an arson investigator who used his home-grown southern "good ol' boy" accent and demeanor to coax confessions from suspects by convincing them he was brainless and harmless.

"Say, that's a really nice pair of shoes. Where did you get those? I'd love a pair myself, but I have get them made special."

Governor Squid

Y'know, I've seen My Fair Lady a few times, and I can't recall a single version in which Professor Higgins was tarred and feathered by the Woke Intelligentsia for trying to drive out Miss Dolittle's "authentic voice." Which isn't to say that such a version isn't in production right now.

Do you suppose that at this very moment, there's an Angry Studies professor excoriating Rex Harrison and Audrey Hepburn for their participation in such a thinly-veiled racist production? (That the Academy awarded them 8 Oscars for this blasphemy just proves how terrible White Hollywood is and always has been.)

pst314

Y'know, I've seen My Fair Lady a few times, and I can't recall a single version in which Professor Higgins was tarred and feathered by the Woke Intelligentsia for trying to drive out Miss Dolittle's "authentic voice." Which isn't to say that such a version isn't in production right now.

If the Left is not stopped that movie and many others will likely eventually be banned.

rxc

Now, I have to admit that many professional people (think doctors and lawyers and engineers(me)) speak their own languages that the vast majority of the population does not understand at all. I happen to think that the SJ movement, and the social "sciences" are attempting to emulate these professional languages with one of their own. They can't just use ordinary words which everyone understands, because then the great unwashed would see thru the fog and call BS on them. So they veil everything in obscure words and studies (LOTS of "studies", in "peer reviewed journals", just like the real scientists do), and then they use these credentials and "evidence" to re-make society, because they have nothing else to use to remake society the way that they think it should be.

Unfortunately, they do not realize that there are very good reason all the airline pilots and air traffic controllers in the world speak the same language (English), and speak it well enough to clearly communicate with one another. Same thing with the railroad conductors and engineers and ship captains and pilots. Same thing with the vast majority of the technical information around the world - it has settled on standard English as the means of communications. (There was a time when it appeared that German might fill that niche, but the unpleasantness of the 1930s and 40s put that thought to rest)

And the commercial field has similarly settled on English, so that we now have call centers in India who help computer owners in Iowa figure out MS Windows (not always successfully) And in Europe, all those Japanese and Chinese tourists get around by speaking English to the French and Germans and Italians and Spanish.

But now the SJWs say that we need to encourage all of these organizations (STEM, commercial, financial) to hire people who cannot even speak the language of their "home" country? Why can't they learn to speak standard English? Why don't they use this language in their university courses, exclusively?

One of my grandfathers could not read or write his own name in either English or Italian, but he raised 11 children who were completely American, and only spoke a small amount of Italian, including one scientist and two nurses. His grandchildren include many professional people (Doctors, lawyers, engineers). Many immigrants from Asia and Mexico and Africa go out of their way to ensure that their progeny learn to speak English well, so that they can have better lives. They do not teach them to resent the opportunities that they had, and demand reparations for imagined slights.

David

Somewhat related, this. Because setting fire to students’ hair and punching teachers in the face is how black students “engage in learning.” Apparently.

pst314

Wild Camel Hump Fat

Note the amusing "SUPERFOODS FROM THE DESERT". Superfoods. Heh.

Governor Squid

I happen to think that the SJ movement, and the social "sciences" are attempting to emulate these professional languages with one of their own. They can't just use ordinary words which everyone understands, because then the great unwashed would see thru the fog and call BS on them.

I think it's partly this, and partly a manifestation of the "cargo cult" mentality they carry. Physicians and physicists and engineers use inscrutable language, and people respond by giving these professionals a lot of respect. Therefore, if we SJWs speak in gibberish, we will similarly be granted respect.

Good luck explaining to them that there is a difference between using technical language to describe complex objects and ideas, versus using jargon as a means of disguising horseshit. Their egos require them to insist that you're just not bright enough to grasp the profound truths behind their made-up words.

Dr Evil

George Bernard Shaw summed up this class business nicely when saying "It is impossible for an Englishman to open his mouth without making some other Englishman hate or despise him,"

Tim Newman

It's like when you see British kids write "I would of".

This isn't helped by the likes of Oliver Kamm writing in The Times that this is not an error due to so many people making it. Kamm is also fond of telling people they should speak however they like and make no attempt to hide their accent (or adhere to what most normal people think are ordinary grammatical rules). However, it is telling that Kamm speaks roughly in the same manner as Prince Charles and, if he followed his own advice, would probably not have a job at The Times. For all his advice to the oiks, I wonder how he's encouraging his own children to speak and write?

David

This isn’t helped by the likes of Oliver Kamm writing in The Times that this is not an error due to so many people making it.

Thing is, not all changes in language are beneficial. Distinctions can be lost and meanings can be blunted. Saying “begs the question” when you mean “raises the question,” for instance. Or nemesis being reduced to meaning an enemy or arch-enemy, thereby losing it’s rather more precise and poetic meaning.

And so, you end up with Voldemort being described as the nemesis of Harry Potter, when the term only makes sense (in the poetic sense) the other way around. It’s not incidental that the great dark wizard is undone by a schoolboy; or that Miss Marple - the nemesis of countless plotters and poisoners - is generally assumed to be a harmless, slightly dotty old dear. And nemesis needn’t be a person at all. It could be humble bacteria, as in The War of the Worlds. The word implies a kind of cosmic comeuppance, some detail or consequence overlooked, often as a result of vanity and arrogance. Nemesis being the thing that follows hubris.

[ Edited. ]

Sam Duncan

Nemesis being the thing that follows hubris.”

It occurs to me that the failure to teach this might go some way towards explaining the vast quantities of the latter knocking around in certain quarters these days.

jabrwok

I'm amazed that with all this discussion of impenetrable jargon and fanciful linquistics, the Turbo Encabulator hasn't made an appearance. What's *wrong* with you people?

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

For Amazon US use this link .

Your filthy consumerism supports this blog.

Blogroll