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June 21, 2016

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Hedgehog

And therefore,

I will be voting for Remain on 23 June and so should you.

Heh. I sometimes have political discussions with friends who happen to be on the other side of the aisle, so to speak. Not very often, for there's no surer way to destroy a friendship nowadays than to discuss politics. The thing that always strikes me is that everybody pretty much agrees on the symptoms - too much corruption in government, too much waste, too much cronyism, too many laws that favor wealthy interests and that reduce opportunities for middle and lower income people, etc. And then, presto, my leftist friends invariably conclude that we need to give more power to government so they will fix it. The non sequitur is breath-taking and always astounds me.

On Laurie, as with lots of young-ish lefties, the problem is "Principals, not principles".

I think that is definitely part of the explanation. Leftists, more than anybody else, identify themselves by the company they keep, hence all the virtue-signalling. I lean more toward the Groucho Marx end of things, when it comes to that, and I certainly don't have any problems espousing opinions that are also held by people whom I may find unattractive or even repulsive if I think the opinions are correct. As it has been observed, you can't blame Wagner for the fact that Hitler liked his music.

Lest I give the wrong impression, I will note here that, when it comes to Wagner, I don't like his music. Too Teutonic. Especially the singing. Aargh. Large women with wide open mouths. I think that's where they got the expression "It's not over until the fat lady sings."

Fred the Fourth

You know, I think Bulwer-Lytton gets a bad rap. A few years ago, at my brother in law's, I found a set of his books. (No, I wasn't snooping.why would you think that?) Of course there was the famous opening paragraph, but as I browsed further I was actually impressed by his style. Not at all what I was expecting.
My BIL also had books on acoustics, hobbiest knife-making, Scientology "scriptures", contract law, and early jazz. A man after my own heart.

WTP

Not very often, for there's no surer way to destroy a friendship nowadays than to discuss politics.

While I do detest bringing such subjects up out of context, I firmly believe this is how we've gotten to this point. At least in the US, my very superficial observation based on limited experience is that such is not so bad in the UK, OZ, etc. When the social edict came down in the 70's that politics and religion were verboten to discuss in polite company, the subjects only came up in "safe" environments where the ideas just reinforced each other, inbreeding as it were. Keeping up such over a generation or two and is it any wonder we have the special snowflake reactions we are seeing at our religious academic institutions.

And I say this after temporarily losing a long time friendship when I insisted over beer and wings en leiu of a rained-out baseball outing that we NOT discuss politics as he insisted on doing.

David

the social edict… that politics and religion were verboten to discuss in polite company,

I was at a party over the weekend and a woman I’d just been introduced to, the mother of a friend, promptly asked me whether I was “in or out.” It was the second thing she said to me. I’m so unaccustomed to talking about politics at social gatherings, especially with strangers, that for a second I wasn’t entirely sure what she meant.

Hedgehog

...whether I was “in or out.”

I think she was referring to your belly-button. Although why she would ask you this on your first meeting is beyond me, too.

Or, well, alternatively, she might have been trying to find out whether you had acknowledged your sexual orientation...

WTP

woman I’d just been introduced to, the mother of a friend, promptly asked me whether I was “in or out.”

Maybe it's just me and my social circle of mostly business and software oriented people, people somewhat slanted to the introvert side, but I would be quite surprised if something like that were to casually come up over here these days. In my parents' day, less so.

for a second I wasn’t entirely sure what she meant

I live for situations like that. I so enjoy answering such questions in a context furthest from what the inquisitor was thinking. But then I find people who ask personal questions, especially right off the bat, deserving of deception and discomfort.

David

I live for situations like that.

We had a brief chat about sovereignty and laughed about the social indecency of talking politics with strangers. Then we drank wine. So all things considered it went surprisingly well.

Hedgehog

In my parents' day, less so.

One of the things I found truly surprising about the US when I first visited in the '80s was the casual way in which people were willing to display their political allegiances, with bumper stickers, signs in their front lawn, things like that. In France nobody would have done this. A bumper sticker touting a political candidate would have been an invitation to getting your car vandalized or worse, and a sign on the lawn... Oh my!

I'm afraid that era of relative civility is over now, though.

WTP

the US when I first visited in the '80s was the casual way in which people were willing to display their political allegiances, with bumper stickers, signs in their front lawn, things like that.

Funny you mention that. Going just by my recollection, middle class Florida-based, political bumper stickers were becoming more prevalent in the 70's and the damn yard signs (hate those things) much more in the 80's and beyond. I think I'm seeing less of such now. Things are getting so polarized it's almost an invitation for trouble. I was never one for putting bumper stickers on my cars at all but when I bought a pick-em-up truck I decided it needed one. I was inspired by an old Archie Bunker poster from the 70's that I've been looking for but can't find, so I had a bumper sticker printed up with Archie on it and the phrase "Deep down, you know he's right". Some of my friends are afraid to ride in it with me.

Hedgehog

when I bought a pick-em-up truck I decided it needed one

Agreed. It would be interesting to do a comparative analysis of bumper stickers and the vehicles whose bumper they adorn. On one hand, the Coexist (Volvo or Subaru), Bernie (Toyota Tercel with a missing taillight), War Is Not the Answer (Toyota Prius), Hillary (Volvo or Subaru again); on the other, Trump (Ford F-150 or other pickup truck), NRA (ditto), and my personal favorite of the last 8 years: "Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing its idiot" (Ford F-150, of course).

Chester Draws

But the economic consequences of making a sharp break are too great for my liking - being long-term unemployed in my twenties has probably made me timid.

But not scared of youth unemployment in others? Because that's one of the EU's greatest issues, and something to be very scared of having to share if you Remain.

I understand why people are for Remain, but youth unemployment is a reason to Leave.

Theophrastus

Polly Toynbee, in the article linked to by Horace Dunn above, says:

"One oddity is that usually the old are national ballast, but this time they are the outers, and the anarchists and the young have the wisdom."

Anarchists like Laurie, perhaps.

Will

comparative analysis of bumper stickers and the vehicles whose bumper they adorn.
I enjoy the ones that play against type, like the Prius with a great deal of right-wing stickers on it or the big pickup truck with the "coexist" sticker on it.

Hal

I enjoy the ones that play against type, like the Prius with a great deal of right-wing stickers on it or the big pickup truck with the "coexist" sticker on it.

Even better in color . . . somewhere . . .

dicentra

Perhaps that too. What sayeth the lady?

Andrews Sisters.

It's catchy and also scandalous.

"Cumaná, Venezuela" is mentioned in the post, and it's probably the same etymology if not exactly the same place.

Spiny Norman

Hedgehog,

...a comparative analysis of bumper stickers and the vehicles whose bumper they adorn.

A pet theory of mine, one that has not been conclusively proven wrong in my personal experience, is that any vehicle with more than 3 political bumper stickers is saying "Stay away! A mentally unbalanced person is operating this vehicle!"

I've thought of printing up a bunch of stickers with the Intel swoosh logo, reading "Crazy Inside", and surreptitious applying them to said vehicles, then waiting to see how long before anyone notices.

dicentra

I've thought of printing up a bunch of stickers with the Intel swoosh logo, reading "Crazy Inside", and surreptitious applying them to said vehicles, then waiting to see how long before anyone notices.

And your GoFundMe page is…?

TAKE MY MONEY!

Fred the Fourth

I once remarked to a colleague about a car in the company lot with "Question Authority" on one end of the rear bumper and "Jesus is Lord" on the other. I speculate that maybe the owner was trolling (not that that word was current way back then). Then I noticed his expression,sighed, and said "It's yours, isn't it?"

Fred the Fourth

Wait. Polly thinks anarchists are in favor of the EU? Are these some of those rare Monarcho-Anarchists I've heard about? Do they pal around with ovo-lacto-beefo-porco-vegetarians?

Dr Cromarty

In other news, Snowflske student thinks Dominican friar in his habit (with rosary) is KKK member wandering around campus with a bullwhip.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/18/students-complain-about-ku-klux-klan-member-on-campus-turns-out/

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