David Thompson
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June 24, 2016

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Hal

Has the EU evolved into something more intrusive than a Common Market since then? Did the voters in the UK ratify that evolution? Perhaps what they thought they bought in 1975 is not what they got instead in 2016.

. . . and thus when one is a participant in the ongoing occurrence . . . .

The EU parliament, to address an issue in general, is indeed continuing with All Sorts Of Rules. Of those rules, there are two responses. One is to get the hell out and proclaim to all that We are better because we don't do that sort of nit picking crap. The other is to stay in and proclaim to all that That nit picking crap is bullshit and we all can and bloody well will do better together.

Oh, why together? That would be an entire Uni course of discussion---Actual, genuinely elite Uni, of course, some place with a majority of mathematicians---, but what keeps coming to mind is a comment by historian Shelby Foote on the US Civil War.

Before the war, it was said “the United States are.” Grammatically, it was spoken that way and thought of as a collection of independent states. And after the war, it was always “the United States is,” as we say to day without being self-conscious at all. And that’s sums up what the war accomplished. It made us an “is.”

No, I'm not going to project what that match for the US Civil War would be, that's what the Uni course is for.

David

From the Guardian website:

I wonder if the young woman on the right considers how her banner, and the attitude it implies, may fail to impress a large part of the British electorate?

Geezer

. . . and thus when one is a participant in the ongoing occurrence . . . .

Does being a participant in an ongoing occurrence mean consenting to a bait-and-switch?

Farnsworth M. Muldoon

Or something that only happened in Laurie’s head?

Most likely, given that if she wasn't waving a sign like the one above, and I may be wrong here, but what are the odds that the average Nigel wearing a flag of St George is going to recognize her as the fabled (in her own mind) Miss Penny ?

OTOH, if one did, would he have been essentially wrong ? Over here in the USandA there are plenty of leftists, many in Congress, alas, who are geographic Americans, yet believe in no traditional American values, and are hence American In Name Only (AINO). From what I have gleaned from these august pages, Miss Penny seems to fit that mold from an English perspective.

wtp

Regarding ties, damned ties, and statistics...Since we've begun to split hairs regarding an ongoing occurrence or filling a void or wtf all that is about...Simple google research (yes, I know) turns up considerable consternation among statisticians regarding use of the term. However, the understanding seems to be, and this is how I've understood the term so long as I have studied statistics and maths and such, that a statistical tie is a tie in regard to polling or some other sort of approximation of a proper measurement. Such approximation comes with an accompanying margin of error. Thus say a 53% vs. 47% poll (poll here being exclusive of an actual vote where all concerned parties have had their position recorded) with a margin of error of +-4% would be a statistical tie because the margin of error exceeds the difference between the majority number and the minority number.

This Brexit event is not a poll in the statistical sense, however. This wasn't a random sampling of people, it was an opportunity for all concerned to express their conscious (well, disregarding dear "Mandy" anyway) decision. Now one might argue that in a 52-48 decision there were a significant number of eligible voters restricted from voting such that they could make up the difference.

Alice

I am not British I am European

Where does she live?
Where does she vote?
Where does she pay her taxes?

David

Where does she live?
Where does she vote?
Where does she pay her taxes?

I think what irks is the air of condescension. It looks like an attempt to signal superiority, and it implies a certain dismissiveness of national identity or affiliation, as if such attachment were parochial and unsophisticated, as if a country were little more than a glorified hotel. Which is to say, an attitude that a large chunk of the electorate has seen quite a lot of lately, generally from people in positions of unusual influence and comfort, and who are immune to the broader consequences of their pronouncements.

An attitude that much of the electorate has apparently grown to dislike.

dicentra

Lord knows Godfrey Elfwick did his best to convince people to Remain, all to no avail.

What this world's come to I'll never know...

David

Because they want to build a better world.

prm

Good article from Suzanne Moore, who gets it (I recall a pre-referendum article of hers that was also good, and understood the anger of the peasants as well as the snobbery of the righteous).

"I spent my entire adolescence trying to get to London, I have brought up my children here. But my God – the arrogance right now of my chosen home is unbelievable to me."

"All that contempt has now handed back a broken plate to the entire establishment. The only question is why it took so long. This is not a revolution. It is a revolt. Those who thought sovereignty was a ridiculous fantasy cannot seriously want to cut themselves off more, can they? London. Check your privilege."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/london-separate-city-state-leave-voters-class

dicentra

as if such attachment were parochial and unsophisticated

Being British = Living with your parents
Being European = Living in the university dorms

Although it is psychologically necessary for teens to emotionally break from their parents via disdain and rebellion, youngsters don't have the judgment to see that they're taking the analogy way too far, that a national identity compared to "international identity" ain't the same thing.

"Citizen of the World" will mean something only when people start living off-planet -- or we meet beings from other worlds. Otherwise, as David says, it's just a conceit.

dicentra

In the meantime, I discuss how it's a problem for conservative pundit George Will to be condescending, and Ian Tuttle observes the left's reaction at their worldview being shattered.

David

This may be the longest ‘ephemera’ thread we’ve ever had. Another first.

A glass of wine, I think.

David

Otherwise, as David says, it’s just a conceit.

It’s something that tends to be said by well-heeled pseudo-egalitarian poseurs. Working-class people who save up for a week holidaying in Spain or Greece, or in Scarborough or Blackpool, they tend not to describe themselves as citizens of the world.

Spiny Norman

i don not feel bad for saying this, but old white ppl need to die

RENEW! RENEW!

Another dystopian novel becomes an instruction manual for the Left.

And this insufferable little twit is hardly alone. When did youthful rebelliousness become so genocidal?

Sam Duncan

Actually, although I voted Leave, I tend to agree that a simple majority shouldn't be enough for major constitutional change. The United Kingdom could have been broken up after 300 years by one solitary vote back in 2014, which is absurd. (The reason the nationalists did it that way was that a vote on the establishment of a Scottish Assembly back in 1979 which did have threshold requirements was lost by the “Yes” side despite gaining a simple majority, so they now claim that any such requirements are “gerrymandering”.)

But look: A) Those were the rules, and B) It's only a referendum, not a binding plebiscite. We don't have those in Britain. As of today, nothing has changed. The UK is still a full member state of the European Union. Article 50 of the consolidated Treaties has not been invoked, and probably won't be for several months, despite the Colleagues' agitation. No doubt the closeness of the vote will be taken into account during negotiations; it's quite clear that there's no mandate for the Remainers' “doomsday scenario” of complete isolation (not that there was ever a realistic chance of that, but still). So EFTA and the EEA seem highly likely, probably still with a modified form of Freedom of Movement. This vote doesn't concern our membership of the Council of Europe at all, so appeal to the ECHR will still be possible (as it was before we joined the EEC). I expect (sadly, because it's an absolute bloody fustercluck right now) we'll remain with the European Patent Office too, which isn't an EU institution either.

Everyone - especially the Remainers - needs to calm down a bit.

Chester Draws

You have to be either in or out. There are no halfway measures.

You cannot rewrite the rules to be half in because you don't like the victory margin.

It is a gamble, but then so is staying. To stay merely on the basis that it is less disruptive however is pathetic. Any polity that is guided by a policy of doing the things that are the least fuss is going to be sclerotic pretty fast.

"Nothing must change! is not much of a rallying cry. "I don't like change!" is the politics of seven year olds.

Jeff Wood

On this matter of convincing majorities:

OK, the vote came out as 52:48.

A narrower margin in 2008 was hailed as the Second Coming, and a mandate to Transform America.

I have read estimates that the murder of Jo Cox MP moved 5% in favour of Remain, though I guess some would be abstentions rather than positive votes.

I would expect voting fraud, especially in London (Brits on here know who I mean), worth perhaps 1-2%, all in favour of Remain.

Project Fear, the Remain campaign, probably moved another 5%. Does anyone remember any positive arguments for staying in?

I am told (I live in Italy and did not vote for that reason) that immigrants were given the vote. Few would opt to support their hosts in Leaving.

The back of my envelope suggests that among native Brits, the vote was 65:35 in favour of Leave. Also, in my native Scotland, the vote for Remain was lower than reported, because fraud.

Geezer

A glass of wine, I think.

I'll drink to that!

MikeG81

"We note that you seem to be extremely familiar with how to be Progressive. Certainly more than me, but then I'm conservative."

"We?" Since when do you speak for anyone but yourself?

Yes, Hal, I do have have some experience with progs. I'm surrounded by them where I am. Know thine enemy and all that. They are trying to change how voting works over here so things like 52 to 48 don't mean winning. Maybe if you worried more about how 'they' work instead of pretty pop culture pictures in your post, you might get somewhere.

I am aware of what you are trying to say about 'margins'. I'm saying it doesn't matter. 52 to 48 is a majority. No matter how you, yourself, 'weasel' out of it.

Ted S., Catskill Mtns., NY, USA

A glass of wine, I think.

I had a nice moderately priced Argentine Malbec with dinner.

Jeff Wood:

Obama actually won by better than 52-48 in 2008. It was under four points in 2012, however.

WTP

Getting back to the more traditional ephemera...Texas woman wakes up from surgery with British accent.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/06/24/instant-accent-change-moos-pkg.cnn

Hal

It's time to break up into smaller countries. In too many countries right now the populations are split almost 50/50 as to whom they prefer to rule over them, resulting in constant and acrimonious bickering.

We've always been told the more choice the better. Wouldn't the same apply to countries? Instead of slowly marching in lockstep to a New World Order that leaves no room for dissent, we should be moving to greater freedom of choice. Now that would be true diversity! :)

Well, with the Brexit vote, there are already the comments from Scotland amounting to Oh, Cool, so we're leaving, Y'all can flounder on without us!!---while noting that Yes, there could be that further exit, but that further exit would be just as convoluted and utterly all around disruptive as the UK proposing to pull out of the EU . . . And then there are also now the observations of which way the assorted Irish will jump . . .

Soooo . . . with all the histrionics of Hooray for England!!!---Oh, wait, others are involved along with the English, aren't they, oh, bugger, Russtovich does present an interesting idea . . . So, Yes, what if a basically national entity wants to rather split off and rather definitely have its own constitution, and its own parliament, government and courts.---Why yes, I was quoting something there . . .

So what if;

RESOLVED: The European Union shall indeed include the assorted nations of England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, something involving Northern Ireland, and all the rest, where each such individual nation shall indeed be basically rather independent in that overall framework, so that each nation has its own constitution, and its own parliament, government and courts, where thus each such nation operates exactly as does a canton of Switzerland within the overall federal directorial republic of The European Union . . . . .

Discuss.

Hal

Because they want to build a better world.

One week of every year is designated National Brotherhood Week. This is just one of many such weeks honoring various worthy causes. One of my favorites is National Make-fun-of-the-handicapped Week which Frank Fontaine and Jerry Lewis are in charge of as you know. During National Brotherhood Week various special events are arranged to drive home the message of brotherhood. This year, for example, on the first day of the week Malcolm X was killed which gives you an idea of how effective the whole thing is. I'm sure we all agree that we ought to love one another and I know there are people in the world that do not love their fellow human beings and I hate people like that. Here's a song about National Brotherhood Week.

Oh, the white folks hate the black folks,
And the black folks hate the white folks.
To hate all but the right folks
Is an old established rule.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
Lena Horne and Sheriff Clarke are dancing cheek to cheek.
It's fun to eulogize
The people you despise,
As long as you don't let 'em in your school.

Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks,
And the rich folks hate the poor folks.
All of my folks hate all of your folks,
It's American as apple pie.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans 'cause it's very chic.
Step up and shake the hand
Of someone you can't stand.
You can tolerate him if you try.

Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Moslems,
And everybody hates the Jews.

But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
It's National Everyone-smile-at-one-another-hood Week.
Be nice to people who
Are inferior to you.
It's only for a week, so have no fear.
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!
---Tom Lehrer

Joan

Vote now, vote often!

https://twitter.com/cbfortescue/status/746721789011722240

J.M. Heinrichs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_1995

Changing the rules after the event is the bailiwick of the niggardly informed.

Cheers

Nikw211

She has “feminist” in her profile. Imagine my shock.”

Crying with laughter over here right now.

svh

"Most cited reason to #VoteLeave was democracy. Not immigration."

https://twitter.com/jamieamartin1/status/746707798721990656

But we're all racists apparently.

Henry

wtp

I wonder if there was an "Andy" who voted Remain and later had second thoughts. Ah, but that would be Faux News

Actually, in Thursday's Times there was a piece by a chap who'd been eurosceptic all his life and who'd "bottled it" at the last moment and voted Remain - moved by the irresponsible scare-mongering of the Remain campaign (when they weren't crying racist or using the death of a mother to encourage people to vote their way)

Henry

Ah sorry. '/' in the wrong place. Heh

David

Avalanche of italics fixed.

james

Avalanche of italics

Was that another of the predicted events if people voted to Leave?

WTP

Henry, but did he then regret doing so or was this a case of a xenophobic racist taking advantage of the opportunity to was his sins away?

WTP

was wash his sins away

Jonathan

Suzanne Evans of UKIP on the non-Apocalypse:

https://imgur.com/JovrlTS

Morpork

Re: Beehives. How could a story about beehives not mention Dusty Springfield? Or did I miss it?

Mark

All those demanding an immediate referendum etc to get the "correct" result...

http://i.imgur.com/7zhnPaQ.png

Just hope Article 50 gets activated sooner rather than later.

Geezer

RESOLVED: .... Discuss.

Points of information:
RESOLVED by whom?
What is a quorum?
What margin is required for the resolution to be adopted?
Where might I find the rules that answer those questions?

Geezer

Mark: The picture you linked to is clearly phony. No tattoos.

Fen Tiger

Actually Hal, your comments about this might be more cogent and less insulting if you knew a little more (or anything at all, really) about this issue as it has developed over the last 60 years.

I cast my first vote ever in the 1975 referendum: I voted "yes." My vote was driven by a combination of naive youthful idealism (all my own) and the outright and repeated lies of the pro-EEC establishment, who knew very well that the direction of movement of the EEC (as it was then) was set inexorably towards "ever closer union." Strangely, they failed to mention this in that campaign; more than that, they specifically denied it.

Had they admitted the truth, there is very little doubt that that vote would have been a defeat for them: many of my grandparents' generation (alive while Victoria was still on the throne) were still voting. You'll have to take it from me that there was little appetite in that generation (who fought both world wars) for throwing away their national identity, of which they were exceptionally proud. And still less for ending their national sovereignty, for which they had sacrificed so much, in favour of a system specifically designed to insulate political leaders from the popular will and make them almost entirely unaccountable.

I know that I would have voted "no" had I known where this was headed, and so would all of those of my friends with whom I've since discussed it.

Since 1975 the establishment of the UK has continued to deny that the EU has a pre-set, hard-wired destination, when the truth was becoming inescapably obvious (even for the most obtuse). Indeed, you will find that they were still denying it in the last few weeks.

Given the lack of basic truthfulness and the enormous propaganda resources of the Remain campaign, I am still astonished that Leave won a majority of any size.

I live opposite a polling station, and I knew early on Thursday that we were heading for a huge turnout. The street has never - and I mean never - been so busy on a polling day. It was a privilege to see such commitment expressed so peacefully.

We all knew - even your smug colleague knew - that the result would be binding if it were Remain, even if the margin was a single vote on a tiny turnout. That was the rule before the day, and that's the rule now.

Lancastrian Oik

Discuss.

There is nothing to discuss- any proposal for such a constitutional arrangement would be anathema to the technocrats who pull the levers within the EU and absolutely antithetical to key EU treaties such as those of Maastricht and Lisbon.

Trevor

Fen Tiger.

Well said.

Spiny Norman

By the way, the petition for a Referendum do-over with 2 million (3 million!) "signatures"? Those numbers might be 4Chan's most successful prank to date.

I saw a early thread at the /pol/ board where they were encouraging readers to spam the poll almost immediately after it was created, but that was before someone posted a bot script that's been reposted almost continuously since.

Farnsworth M. Muldoon

Mark: The picture you linked to is clearly phony. No tattoos.

Look again, major neck tattoo.

WTP

M R Tats
M R Not
O S A R
C @ Ink
L I B
M R Tats

Theophrastus

I wonder if the young woman on the right considers how her banner, and the attitude it implies, may fail to impress a large part of the British electorate?

Young woman? She's behaving like a child. And she's been educated far beyond the level of her intelligence, because she conflates the EU and Europe and she clearly cannot grasp that being British and European are not incompatible.

Geezer

Look again, major neck tattoo.

I stand corrected. I thought it was a scarf. (I'm old.)

fnord

And she's been educated far beyond the level of her intelligence, because she conflates the EU and Europe

I take issue with your choice of verb. 'Schooled' , in the same sense as schooling a show jumper would be much nearer the mark. This has been my preferred descriptor for the products of the 'education' system for the past several decades but I'm coming to the conclusion that this is also too generous, so I'm coming down on the side of 'processed'.

David

Captures something, I think:


Trevor

Captures something ...

Quite, although it's been going on rather longer than a decade. I want to live in a nation where it is implicitly understood that everything is lawful unless there is good reason for it to be explicitly forbidden, rather than a State that assumes the right to supervise and regulate every aspect of human activity.

Geezer

M R Tats ...
M R Tats

I confess: M R indeed.

Hal

There is nothing to discuss- any proposal for such a constitutional arrangement would be anathema to the technocrats who pull the levers within the EU and absolutely antithetical to key EU treaties such as those of Maastricht and Lisbon.

Actually, that is an excellent example of exactly what I was looking for . . . and definitely not fishing for, had absolutely zero preconceived ideas of responses . . . Well delivered.

And, no, not not being posted as attempted arguments, but simply for the sheer amusement when I spotted 'em:

and then the Telegraph had commented with

and

. . . . .

Chester Draws

The idea that the EU is best represented by a sturdy, steady jet plane and that the UK has no parachute is somewhat contrary to the actual state.

The jet should be made up of parts of 27 different plane and be heading at a cliff. Then jumping might look sensible.

Theophrastus

fnord

"I take issue with your choice of verb."

Good point. I should have used scare quotes - 'educated'. Other options could include 'instructed', 'indoctrinated', or 'trained'.

David

Further to my earlier comment about so-called ‘citizens of the world’ and nations not being hotels, Megan McArdle has more:

Journalists and academics seemed to feel that they had not made it sufficiently clear that people who oppose open borders are a bunch of racist rubes who couldn’t count to 20 while putting their shoes on. Given how badly this strategy had just failed, this seemed a strange time to be doubling down… Perhaps they were unable to grasp that nationalism and place still matter… A lot people do not view their country the way some elites do: as though the nation were something like a rental apartment…

When asked “Where are you from?” almost no one would answer “Europe,” because after 50 years of assiduous labour by the eurocrats, Europe remains a continent, not an identity… These sorts of tribal affiliations cause problems, obviously, which is why elites were so eager to tamp them down. Unfortunately, they are also what glues polities together, and makes people willing to sacrifice for them. Trying to build the state without the nation has led to the mess that is the current EU. And to Thursday’s election results.

Also, Christopher Snowdon:

Many of the arguments made by the Remain camp were fundamentally anti-democratic; they prefer to have an elite in charge with whom they agree than have a demos in charge with whom they do not…. If it wasn’t already obvious that self-proclaimed liberals hate the working class, it is vividly clear now. The left has claimed for generations that it wants a working class revolution. Now they’ve got one.

By all means, rumble on.

Lancastrian Oik

Rumble on.

Chester Draws' point about the Carlson cartoon above is spot-on, because I just cannot for the life of me understand why those on the Left were in favour of the EU, which has been an unmitigated disaster for the PIIGS (especially Greece- massive unemployment, soup kitchens keeping starvation at bay for many and parts of the capital starting to resemble the set of Escape From New York). Replace that aeroplane with a rattly old tramp steamer fatally holed below the waterline and as Chester says, jumping ship looks like the smart thing to do.

Many of the arguments made by the Remain camp were fundamentally anti-democratic; they prefer to have an elite in charge with whom they agree than have a demos in charge with whom they do not…. If it wasn’t already obvious that self-proclaimed liberals hate the working class, it is vividly clear now. The left has claimed for generations that it wants a working class revolution. Now they’ve got one.

Absolutely- my FB feed is full of so-disant Lefties having conniptions. It's hilarious to behold, especially when one considers that they have just missed the biggest open goal in British political history; unfortunately, because they can't square the circle of Half-Arsed Internationalism™ being in direct conflict with the genuine interests of the working class, they plumped for HAI™. This forced the "man of principle" to try and make it look like he too thought that the EU was A Terribly Good Thing when for the last 32 years he done everything apart from wear a clothes-peg on his nose at the mere mention of the EU such is his visceral dislike. He failed miserably, mainly because he isn't actually all that good at the practical side of politics and always looks like he is never more than thirty seconds away from a temper tantrum. It does not seem to have occurred to the droves of SJWs who voted for Corbyn as leader to have paused for thought as to why their Chosen One was so anti-EU (as are their other heroes on the Parliamentary Left- McDonnell and Skinner).

And so the idiotic Left, spearheaded in the media by the likes of Owen Jones and Paul Mason, are pushing the case for a stitch-up between big corporations and governments that would have delighted Mussolini, and the pathologically stupid David Lammy (honestly- I reckon I've got shirts with a better IQ than him) is solemnly invoking the supreme and inviolable sovereignty of Parliament to overturn the result of the plebiscite.

There is indeed a revolution going on- it seems to me that society is now becoming divided with mercantilism, free trade and patriotism on one side and neoliberalism*, globalism and "open borders' advocates on the other, with the Left-leaning globalists failing to realise that they are unwittingly in league with some very nasty people.

*Not my favourite term, but here I use it in the sense of those who would have large corporations perform the functions of government- run the prisons, defence and security issues etc.

David

Absolutely- my FB feed is full of soi-disant Lefties having conniptions.

It has been quite strange to see a twisted class dynamic play out repeatedly over the weekend, with left-leaning students, generally middle-class, denouncing vast swathes of the working class, including a great many Labour voters, as monstrous, racist, too old, too stupid, unfit to vote, etc. I’ve seen dozens of Arts Council beneficiaries, all middle-class and ostentatiously leftwing, suddenly abandon the pretence that their publicly subsidised art is intended for the poor, or anyone but themselves, and spitting at the proles as unworthy of the franchise. It’s quite extraordinary.

Again, I think it’s rather captured by the young woman with the banner, whose pretensions are somewhat at odds with the sentiments of people who scrape together the cash for a week’s holiday in Spain, or maybe just Scarborough.

Hedgehog

Rather prescient, I should say.

Spiny Norman

Rather prescient, I should say.

Ah! Now it all makes sense. If only the US State Department were that clever. Well, Henry Kissinger was, but he was a bit too obvious about it, and is still reviled for it.

David

Mr Sixsmith wins cake.

Hal

When asked “Where are you from?” almost no one would answer “Europe,” because after 50 years of assiduous labour by the eurocrats, Europe remains a continent, not an identity… These sorts of tribal affiliations cause problems, obviously, which is why elites were so eager to tamp them down. Unfortunately, they are also what glues polities together, and makes people willing to sacrifice for them. Trying to build the state without the nation has led to the mess that is the current EU. And to Thursday’s election results.

A few years back, a cluster of effectively independent nations all decided---Unanimously, and kept it that way---that We are the United States . . . As noted by Shelby Foote, and definitely with the comparatively primitive communications methods of the time, the change from that to This is the United States took most of a century and a civil war.

Among today's very recent headlines . . .

Brexit: UK government shifts to damage control
CNN - ‎23 minutes ago‎
Go here to follow CNN's Brexit coverage live. London (CNN) [Breaking news update at 10:39 ET]. British Prime Minister David Cameron said: "The British government will not be triggering Article 50 at this stage.

Two plus centuries later, the speed in communications and making decisions has certainly changed. Of course, what would also help is to have sorted out all the available options as best as could be sorted out ahead of time before deciding to brave the storm in a skiff made of paper.

---Yes, I'm definitely noting the variables of all the available options as best as could be sorted out ahead of time . . .

---And, noting situations of Oh, right, we've seen this before, haven't we, the comment of the skiff made of paper turns out to have been an entirely attributed quote by John Hancock, not actually of him . . . The reported original, from John Dickinson;

John Dickinson: Gentlemen. The consequences involved in the motion now lying before us are of such magnitude that I tremble at the oppressive honor of sharing in its determination. My conduct this day, I expect, will give the finishing blow to my once great and now much-diminished popularity. Yet I had rather forfeit popularity forever than vote away the blood and happiness of my countrymen. Independence will not strengthen us by one man! Nor by the least supply. But it may expose our soldiers to additional cruelties and outrages. The full fury of British wrath will be unleashed. Indians will be loosed on the frontier. Negroes will rise up to slaughter us. New York may well be destroyed. By their own admission, the advocates of separation say foreign assistance will be necessary. At what cost? Let us imagine a war without victors. When the guns fall silent, many will have bled and sacrificed, only to have exchanged the light yoke of Great Britain for the heavy dominion of an alien power. Some have argued that America will become one great commonwealth. But what is to keep 13 unwieldy colonies from splitting asunder? I have a strong impression in my mind that this will take place. No, gentlemen. To escape the protection of Great Britain by declaring independence, unprepared as we are would be to brave a storm in a skiff made of paper.

Change a few names around, change a couple of circumstances, and I keep noticing that Oooooh, Yeah . . we've seen this before . . . .

But a waaay definite advantage with massively improved communications should rather manage the absolute gulf between the successes of unified Germany and the United States vs the results of the Soviet Union . . . .

Hal

Heh. Can't imagine why this came to mind, or possibly why it might have been posted today . . .

clazy8

Change a few names around, change a couple of circumstances, and I keep noticing that Oooooh, Yeah . . we've seen this before . . . .

If Germans, French, Greeks, Poles, etc. were all expat Brits and English-speakers inhabiting lands that were not crowded with the ghosts of their forefathers, the comparison might be apt.

dicentra

In other news, you might want to start writing your In Memoriam posts for Milo now.

David

In other news,

All hands, brace for dissonance.

Farnsworth M. Muldoon

...and now for something completely different...

Raycissism and organizational groveling at "outrage" at its finest.

Two Persons of Pallor get the shiplkes over "super rayciss" poster at swimming pool.

Hedgehog

Racine man faces drug charges for reportedly hiding crack in rear end

Willneal D. Cheeks, 33, of the 1000 block of Grand Ave., appeared in Racine County Circuit Court Wednesday...

The jokes, they write themselves.

Ted S., Catskill Mtns., NY, USA

At least England didn't go out on penalties.

David

Willneal D. Cheeks,

What an evening. A top-notch dinner, the season finale of ‘Thrones and a cracking bum joke.

svh

What an evening.

I don't think our host watches much football. :-)

Hugely Ceebs

Hal -

Hours after Britons voted for the United Kingdom to leave the European Union, they started Googling "What is the EU?" according to Google Trends.

Isn't it more likely that this was people too young to have voted, or even the twenty five-odd percent who could've voted but didn't?


wtp -

'quotes' from unnamed sources in the pro-EU media.

I see this trend in general in the media when things don't go their way. It's quite the tell as to what "their way" actually is.

Further on that here: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36634786
The avalanche of race hate has begun!

I note that the picture atop the article appears to be of a genuine National Front protest, which has attracted all of four people.

Sam Duncan -
Actually, although I voted Leave, I tend to agree that a simple majority shouldn't be enough for major constitutional change.

I agree, although as others have pointed out, major constitutional change has nonetheless been happening to Britain for forty years without a vote having been taken at all.

There's an article here about how parliament ought to just ignore the referendum: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/stop-brexit-mp-vote-referendum-members-parliament-act-europe?CMP=share_btn_fb

The fellow says: "In Australia, for example, a referendum proposal must pass in each of the six states (this would defeat Brexit, which failed in Scotland and Northern Ireland)." Ah, something I know about! What he fails to mention is that in Australia, referendums are only necessary to modify the constitution - and conversely, constitutional modification can't take place without a referendum. Perhaps the Brexit referendum wouldn't have been possible in Australia, or wouldn't have passed. But it wouldn't have been necessary either, because most of the powers ratcheted up by the EU over the years would've required their own referendum in the first place. In other words, it's apples and oranges.

sH2

"Will anyone join me in sending a petition to Parliament to insist on replaying last night’s match and refusing to accept any result where the winning team scores fewer than 4 goals and is not leading by at least 2 goals at the final whistle? According to the BBC and the Guardian the Icelanders are beginning to regret winning and, had they known the full facts before the match, would have given England a 2-goal start."

http://www.timworstall.com/2016/06/28/more-more-on-that-football/

The original Mr. X

To be honest, the left's reaction to Brexit puts me in mind of nothing so much as a bunch of French aristocrats c. 1789 wondering why the peasants are getting so bolshy all of a sudden. "Hey, all we did is treat them like a bunch of barely-human window-lickers whose concerns didn't deserve to be taken seriously! What do you mean, they're angry about it?"

Somewhat related: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/remain-revealed-hateful-prejudices/

FlynPigRanch

Hal, Nice gun analogies. But the bigger guns are 52% and the smaller ones are 48%. No tie there.

Hedgehog

a bunch of French aristocrats

Ah, ça ira

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