Snake Oil

For those who missed the update, the third part of Everyday Feminism’s “Healing from Toxic Whiteness” online seminar, relayed by the intrepid SJW Nonsense, is now available. This is the one in which Everyday Feminism founder Sandra Kim insists that “people of colour” can feel the emotions of their ancestors via “inter-generational trauma,” which is, we’re told, passed on “genetically” and “lives inside of your body.”

Comments

[jabrwok]

Lamarck smiles.

[V]

These people are messed up.

[David]

These people are messed up.

The participants do seem to be hopelessly credulous. Though I still can’t decide if Ms Kim is an incompetent hustler or genuinely unhinged. It’s such pernicious and stupefying claptrap – the point of which seems to be to displace responsibility among those deemed sufficiently brown, while inculcating pretentious guilt among pale-skinned saps.

I was faintly entertained by how Ms Kim says “right?” at the end of each bizarre and rambling pseudo-scientific assertion, as if to head off objection, or to excuse the number of sentences that meander and then crumble without getting anywhere. Just as she repeatedly says “And so,” as if it were an incantation – as if just saying those two words somehow made laughable and unrelated things add up to something persuasive.

[abacab]

... “inter-generational trauma,” which is, we’re told, passed on “genetically” and “lives inside of your body.”

An interesting variant of Lamarckism there...

And the effect is so strong that that it was not felt at all by that chap a while back who discovered that he had no slave blood at all, all his ancestors haviing immigrated to the USA in the 20th century.

[Jonathan]

Actually there may be some effect, the size and duration of which is currently unknown. I present this without comment.

A person's experience as a child or teenager can have a profound impact on their future children's lives, new work is showing. Rachel Yehuda, a researcher in the growing field of epigenetics and the intergenerational effects of trauma, and her colleagues have long studied mass trauma survivors and their offspring. Their latest results reveal that descendants of people who survived the Holocaust have different stress hormone profiles than their peers, perhaps predisposing them to anxiety disorders.

[David]

I present this without comment.

See around 3:50 onwards in the third video, which highlights larger and more recent studies that find either a slightly diminished incidence of anxiety disorders or no correlation at all.

[ac1]

Is this PeakStupid?

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2017/jan/30/tie-length-a-worrying-guide-to-trumps-state-of-mind?CMP=twt_gu

[Jonathan]

... larger and more recent studies that find either a slightly diminished incidence of anxiety disorders or no correlation at all.

Rats! As quite a few of my ancestors were slaughtered by Muslims in the Middle-East, I was hoping for some sweet, sweet victimhood points.

[David]

As quite a few of my ancestors were slaughtered by Muslims in the Middle-East, I was hoping for some sweet, sweet victimhood points.

And as noted in the video, the number of people who could, in theory, invoke some supposed effect (across several generations, even centuries, based on bugger all) is enormous, since any number of people could, in theory, appeal either to distant history or some more immediate relative’s horrific experience as a basis for special favours, in perpetuity. Though, obviously, if those doing the claiming happen to have pale skin, I doubt the ladies at Everyday Feminism would be terribly accommodating.

[David]

It’s perhaps worth noting that the people whose claims might seem among the strongest, assuming an effect exists – say, immediate descendants of Holocaust survivors – are not generally the ones demanding special accommodation for some ghostly but disabling “intergenerational trauma.” Such that their grades, behaviour and emotional incontinence should be excused and viewed deferentially, for as long as they find convenient. Instead, we hear from middle-class women with time and money to waste on Women’s Studies courses and fatuous New Age seminars on “toxic whiteness.”

[David]

Also via SJW Nonsense, this.

[WTP]

Kinda obvious question but has yet to be asked...Is it just emotions that can be passed on genetically or can things such as work ethic, propensity to violence, intelligence, etc. also be inherited? Asking for a friend. He seems terribly concerned by this. I told him to get his dumb ass back to work or I'd bop him one, so no rush on the answer...

[Rafi]

Related. https://twitter.com/CounterMoonbat/status/826120316627931137

[Jonathan]

Is it just emotions that can be passed on genetically or can things such as work ethic, propensity to violence, intelligence, etc. also be inherited? Asking for a friend.

Tell your friend not to worry: evolution doesn't operate above the neck.

[David]

Related.

And another vacuous bigot emerges from her egg. I keep having to check that these people are real.

[Burnsie]

Insofar as we are directly descended from 2,044 different people in a mere ten generations—if my quick addition is correct—that's quite a bit of intergenerational trauma for all of us to shoulder. How do we manage?

But soldier on we must.

[R.Sherman]

Intergenerational Trauma

I grew up in a neighborhood where most of the father's had spent time in various locales in Europe and the Pacific during the '40s. Off the top of my head, I recall one tank driver, a B-24 pilot, several Marines, one of whom left a limb on Saipan, an Army ranger who began his tour of Italy at Anzio, and my dad who was Navy aviator. I don't recall any of them doing much other than caring for their wives and kids, going to work, grilling on the weekends, attending church on Sundays interspersed with naps on the couch.

Did I miss out on the trauma?

[David]

Did I miss out on the trauma?

If you spend enough time poking through the twisted mental wreckage of Everyday Feminism, you’ll spot the implication that Brown People’s Feelings™ have magical properties and are more authentic, and therefore more important, than the emotions experienced by people of pallor.

[WTP]

Insofar as we are directly descended from 2,044 different people

Not necessarily different. Barring significant relocation by most of those generations, most people will find quite a few first, second, third once/twice/thrice removed cousins in their lineage such that the number of discrete (did I spell it right this time?) individuals is a bit less than 2044. Either way, though, quite a few.

[Hedgehog]

R.Sherman: I don't recall any of them doing much other than caring for their wives and kids, going to work, grilling on the weekends, attending church on Sundays interspersed with naps on the couch.

Yes, but what were they grilling?

Burnsie: descended from 2,044 different people

My quick check using excel (2^10) leads to 1,024. If you start the count from the parents' generation it would still have to be 2,048.

/pedantry

[R.Sherman]

@Hedge

Pork Steaks.

[Darleen]

ac1 -- I'll see your "Peak Stupid" and raise it.

The British Medical Association has said pregnant women should not be called "expectant mothers" as it could offend transgender people.

[...]

On pregnancy and maternity, it says: "Gender inequality is reflected in traditional ideas about the roles of women and men. Though they have shifted over time, the assumptions and stereotypes that underpin those ideas are often deeply-rooted."

It adds: "A large majority of people that have been pregnant or have given birth identify as women. We can include intersex men and transmen who may get pregnant by saying 'pregnant people' instead of 'expectant mothers'."

#Science? Too discriminatory.

[Theophrastus]

WTP
Your friend might find this helpful:
http://thosewhocansee.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/the-diversity-tax.html

[ac1]

British Medical Association
Not the British Monty Python Association?

[Burnsie]

My quick check using excel (2^10) leads to 1,024.

That would be the number of the 10th generation alone. I added all those who descended from them as well, generations 2-9. Can't ignore their trauma, now can we?

[Kerry]

My ancestors came to Australia chained in the hold of a convict ship. Somehow, my only emotional response to this is to wish I could say 'thank you'.

Where's my inter-generational trauma? I feel left out.

[Ted S., Catskill Mtns., NY, USA]

WTP:

Some people's family trees are straight as telephone poles.

[Ed Snack]

Actually although Lamarckism as originally framed is dead, there is evidence that some specific traits can be passed on epigenetically from various incidents in the life of a person. Example often quoted is that children born in Holland in the late 40's early 50's have some distinct genetic features that appear to originate from the fairly traumatic famine endured by many Dutch in 1945 before the war ended.

Gene expression can be altered by factors outside the the core DNA and that altered expression can apparently be passed on. A full understanding of this is yet to be achieved, but as far as I'm aware the effect is considered real and repeatable. An interesting field; which is utterly unlike Social Justice Studies.

[Hal]

For those who missed the update, . . .

Well, no, didn't miss it at all, had relevant issues to pay attention to instead.

Beyond that, one particular question does get raised by the description.

Regarding . . . “people of colour” can feel the emotions of their ancestors via “inter-generational trauma,” which is, we’re told, passed on “genetically” and “lives inside of your body.” . . .

There is a practice called a systemic constellation. However, what rather emphatically and immediately turns up in all constellations is that anyone can take part, personal DNA is irrelevant. And where usually there is a client who has a general or not so general question, sometimes an experiment where a set combination of factors gets looked at, anyone can be the focus of a constellation---European, African, Asian, inevitably mixed, purple, polka dotted, left handed, whatever.

How does it work? Aaaahhhh . . . the most I've ever encountered is immense and utter handwaving, where the one basic quite truthful assessment is, basically, we have no bloody idea how this works. What is known from absolute masses of repeat occurrences is what happens during a constellation.

Sooo, if what is being claimed by Sandra Kim is at all related to constellations, the closest description of any validity would be the emotions of their ancestors via “inter-generational trauma,” . . . beyond that, the rather established facts are that the rest remains rather unequivocal bullshit---particularly the passed on by DNA bit . . . Some constellation studies are of related concepts: One such that I sat in on involved assessing the several companies that the client might want to work at.

[WTP]

I'm confused again. So would it be rude to ask a fat transgendered person if they were pregnant?

[Q30]

I, too, am confused. As a person of pallor, would I be racist for eating a fajita? Or would I be racist for refusing to eat a fajita?

[Spiny Norman]

Q30,

Sorry, but as a person of pallor, you're racist no matter what you do or don't do. You were born that way.

/settled science

[dicentra]

I keep having to check that these people are real.

[dicentra]

As a person of pallor, would I be racist for eating a fajita? Or would I be racist for refusing to eat a fajita?

Here's the fun part: "Fajita" and "chimichanga" are not real words in Spanish. They're gringo inventions for Mexican-like food that is served at Mexican-like restaurants in the USA and elsewhere.

Untangle THAT.

[dicentra]

We can include intersex men and transmen who may get pregnant by saying 'pregnant people' instead of 'expectant mothers'.

Or we can just call them "seahorses."

[Hopp Singg]

Even Dr. Frankenstein knew better than to confuse xx with xy in his work.

[David]

Somewhat related, the forthcoming “March for Science” doesn’t look entirely credible.

[David]

And speaking of trauma:

A black University of Pennsylvania student recently declared that his fall semester at the Ivy League institution was “traumatic” because he had three white professors who refused to acknowledge their privilege, and one scholar in particular who “constantly perpetuated these systems of oppression … [that] led to me mentally breaking down in the classroom.”

Such was the alleged trauma of not being agreed with,

“I stopped going to his class for a month. With different emotions going through my head from not only this class but from the Trump election, I did not want to step foot [sic] into another white space until I made sure that my mental health was restored.”

Because not indulging the opportunist psychodrama of a vain and weepy student now constitutes both “oppression” and “protecting the voices of the white students who benefit from black oppression,” albeit in ways never quite explained. Yes, black oppression - at an Ivy League university, where annual tuition is $44,000 and pro-black favouritism in admissions is proudly announced.

[sH2]

the forthcoming “March for Science” doesn’t look entirely credible.

[David]

Absolutely.

[Burnsie]

And speaking of trauma:

When can we start calling liberalism a cult? Tell me this kid isn't a victim of sophisticated conditioning techniques.

Paralyzed with victimhood while living one of the most privileged existences on the planet. Someone's done on number on him.

[Lisboeta]

Is this PeakStupid?

I think perhaps you've misunderstood Hadley's 'fashion' columns: they're tongue-in-cheek riffs. (Although I must say that a couple of my sober-suited male colleagues had noticed Pres. Trump's biggening ties.)

[[+]]

at an Ivy League university, where... pro-black favouritism in admissions is proudly announced.

There's your problem.

[David]

There’s your problem.

It does seem to be the obvious variable, and one that has obvious consequences. As discussed here. See also the first item here.

[R.Sherman]

I know I should not be surprised anymore, but when did it become permissible for students to dictate the content and conduct of college courses, not to mention requiring a professor to confess various "sins" in order to have the authority to proceed?

Oh, and I particularly enjoy the emotional blackmail bit,too. "Do what I want or I'm going to cry."

[WTP]

"Fajita" and "chimichanga" are not real words in Spanish. They're gringo inventions for Mexican-like food
Oh, it gets even more confusing than that. Anyone old enough to remember (their parents favorite maybe) Dean Martin hit, "Hey, Mambo"? I found numerous problematicisms when looking up the lyrics this weekend...

A girl went back to Napoli
Because she missed the scenery
The native dances and the charming songs
But wait a minute, something's wrong

Hey, mambo! Mambo Italiano!
Hey, mambo! Mambo Italiano
Go, go, go you mixed up Sicialiano
All you Calabraise-a do the mambo like a crazy with a

Hey mambo, don't want to tarantella
Hey mambo, no more a mozzarella
Hey mambo! Mambo Italiano!
Try an enchilada with da fish a bac a lab and then a

Hey goombah, I love a how you dance a rhumbah
But take a some advice paisano
Learn how to mambo
If you gonna be a square,

You ain't a gonna go nowhere
Hey mambo! mambo Italiano!
Hey mambo! mambo Iitaliano!
Go, go, Joe, shake like a Giovanno

Hello kess-a-deetch-a you getta happy in the feets a
When you mambo Iitaliano
Shake-a Baby shake-a cause i love a when you take a me
Mama say "stop-a or I'm gonna go to papa"

And a hey ja drool you don't a have to go to school
Just make-a wid da beat bambino
It's a like a vino
Kid you good a lookin' but you don't a-know what's cookin' till you

Hey mambo, Mambo Iitaliano
Hey mambo, Mambo Iitaliano
Ho, ho, ho, you mixed up Siciliano

It's a so delish a ev'rybody come copisha
How to mambo Iitalianoooooo!
'Ats nice!
UNH!

But I think I missed a few.

[Horace Dunn]

when did it become permissible for students to dictate the content and conduct of college courses, not to mention requiring a professor to confess various "sins" in order to have the authority to proceed?

China, 1966, if memory serves.

[David]

problematicisms

Needs more clunk.

[Microbillionaire]

Lemme offer a third opinion on some of the numbers presented.
You have 1024 ancestral slots at ten generations back
You have 2046 ancestral slots as sum over 1-10 generations back (the sum starting at 2+4+8... not 1+2+4+8...)

You almost certainly have fewer unique individuals in your family tree there, as some people fill multiple slots. How many fewer is very much a region-variable feature. Some parts of the world have consanguineous marriages as a cultural default, with marriages between second cousins or closer relatives comprising the majority of marriages. Others outlaw such unions, de facto or de jure, or have in the relevantly recent past.

[jabrwok]

marriages between second cousins or closer relatives comprising the majority of marriages

With doubtless interesting, though politically unmentionable, genetic and intellectual (not to mention the subsequent social) consequences for the offspring and their progeny.

[Queen Victoria]

...marriages between second cousins or closer relatives comprising the majority of marriages...

And that's a problem how, precisely?

[Trevor]

And that's a problem how, precisely?

Here in the UK, British parents of Pakistani origin, with high rates of consanguineous marriage, account for 3.4 per cent of all births nationwide, yet produce around 30 per cent of children born with recessive gene disorders.

That's a problem for several parties, not least the British taxpayer, precisely.

[I sneeze in threes]

Will they claim it is all to do with epigenetics? In the good old days you could identify the woo by reference to quantum vibrations but this biology lark (lamark?) is something my BS detector is not calibrated to detect.

Here is some quick googling which I am not qualified to comment on:

http://upliftconnect.com/intergenerational-trauma/

"Intergenerational Trauma is the idea that serious trauma can affect the children and grandchildren of those who had the first hand experience, due to living with a person suffering from PTSD and the challenges that can bring. What’s new is that, thanks to the emerging field of epigenetics, science is discovering that trauma is being passed down to future generations through more than simply learned behaviours."

[I sneeze in threes]

Though I'd argue that being brought up in a culture of persistent grievance mongering regarding your somewhat distant relatives is unlikely to instil a healthy view of life and in the little-uns.

[I sneeze in threes]

Ooh apologies everyone, I must to more than a cursory scan of web-sites I link to, this seems woo central as can be seen by the other articles, e.g.

http://upliftconnect.com/using-fire-to-heal-purify/

"Fire can be used to enhance your spiritual practice or support you by helping you purify and set intentions in your own life. Many personal fire rituals are based on the ancient ceremonies handed down through the ages, in all cultures. Here are a few fire ceremonies from around the world."

Though on the positive maybe this is a new fun website for David to read when he needs a bit of me time with good red wine?

[David]

this seems woo central

I did wonder when you were going to notice. What with the adjacent advert for Water Is Sacred.

Though I’d argue that being brought up in a culture of persistent grievance mongering regarding your somewhat distant relatives is unlikely to instil a healthy view of life and in the little-uns.

Well, quite. I suspect the whiny self-preoccupation of such people can be explained by something more proximate and humdrum than the ghostly re-enactment of some distant ancestor’s slave woes.

[Queen Victoria, n/k/a "Vicki."]

That's a problem for several parties, not least the British taxpayer, precisely.

Memo to self: Try to read yourself away from breaking up fistfights between Albert and John Brown to close the < tounge-in-cheek > tag.

[Queen Victoria, n/k/a "Vicki."]

"Tear yourself away..." Bloody Auto-correct.

[Trevor]

Phew. One was worried for a moment there, Ma'am.

[Queen Victoria, n/k/a "Vicki."]

One was worried for a moment there, Ma'am.

Here's a finger bowl of gin. Knock yourself out. 😀

[Spiny Norman]

"... the emerging field of epigenetics, science is discovering that trauma is being passed down to future generations through more than simply learned behaviours."

Is that anything like the way certain trees in certain Siberian subarctic groves are "teleconnected" to certain changes in global climate, as was claimed by the UEA CRU?

Woo Central, indeed.

[David]

Woo Central, indeed.

And so, of course, is Everyday Feminism. It’s just New Age woo with a “social justice” tilt. For instance, this.

[Squires]

another white space

Should have locked him in a broom closet and stuffed a towel under the door. Problem solved.

Brown People’s Feelings™ have magical properties and are more authentic

Who's browner, Turks or Armenians?

[Geezer]

Bloody Auto-correct.

Solution: Turn OFF Bloody Auto-correct.

[David Gillies]

"…children born in Holland in the late 40's early 50's have some distinct genetic features that appear to originate from the fairly traumatic famine endured by many Dutch in 1945 before the war ended."

Which presumably explains why their children are such weedy, stunted creatures that crack two metres' height only rarely. I don't think anyone's denying the existence of epigenetics, but something that's trotted out with quite such monotonous regularity is certainly over-hyped. And it would be a stretch to find the epigenetic markers for your grandfather having to drink from a separate water fountain.

[ac1]

iSlam scores higher than being gay

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/317248-dnc-boots-candidate-from-chairmans-race-for-criticizing-ellisons-islamic

[Hal]

Hmmmm.

I feel a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of nails suddenly scraped across millions of blackboards, and were suddenly silenced.

[Greg Allan]

A person's experience as a child or teenager can have a profound impact on their future children's lives, new work is showing. Rachel Yehuda, a researcher in the growing field of epigenetics and the intergenerational effects of trauma, and her colleagues have long studied mass trauma survivors and their offspring. Their latest results reveal that descendants of people who survived the Holocaust have different stress hormone profiles than their peers, perhaps predisposing them to anxiety disorders.

I'm the son of a woman who, along with her sisters, was raped by her father. I'm here because she got pregnant deliberately to escape her home via shotgun marriage. She passed on to me a hatred/fear of men that stayed with me for years. It's also not great when, in your thirties, you realise that your grandfather may also be your father.

Environmentally trauma can easily be passed on. Bugger the genetics.

[Jonathan]

Who's browner, Turks or Armenians?

Simply apply the rules of victimhood poker:

Armenians - Brown
Turks - Brown
= A tie.

Armenians - Christian
Turks - Muslim
= Armenians lose.

See, it's simple!

[Hal]

Oh dear . . .

Cultural appropriation is occurring in multiple locations!!!!!

Let the protests begin.