Or, A Demonstration Of Patience.
“You’re saying we should organise our societies along the lines of the lobsters…”
In this largely unedited video, Channel 4’s Cathy Newman interviews Jordan Peterson.
I use the word interview quite loosely. In fact, I propose a drinking game, in which you take a shot of tequila every time Ms Newman somehow misses the point entirely and interrupts with the words, “You’re saying…”
What’s interesting, I think, is the contrast in thinking styles, and which party comes across as rather narrow and dogmatic.
Update:
The Guardian’s Zoe Williams weighs in, having misplaced her medication.
I was just about to send you this. :-)
Posted by: Clam | January 17, 2018 at 09:19
I was just about to send you this. :-)
It does get rather surreal. And it is, I think, instructive, though perhaps not in ways that Ms Newman would have wished.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 09:27
The disparity in intelligence between Newman and Peterson is like a yawning chasm.
#notallnewmans
Posted by: Tim Newman | January 17, 2018 at 09:35
The disparity in intelligence between Newman and Peterson is like a yawning chasm.
It’s fascinating to watch. Ms Newman compensates for a lack of nuance in her thinking by repeatedly interrupting with questions that simply ignore previous answers. As illustrated by her struggles, around 20 minutes in, to comprehend some basic principles of free speech. One gets the impression that Ms Newman is barely listening to anything Peterson says and is much too keen to shoehorn in her own, rather simplistic objections to things that haven’t actually been said, or even remotely suggested. This happens repeatedly – it’s practically a default.
And when the conversation turns to the alleged “gender pay gap,” Ms Newman’s theatrical indignation gets the better of her, her voice rising in pitch – one might say shrillness - as she seems uninterested in hearing, and determined to prevent, any explanation for why her own assumptions may be inaccurate and misleading to viewers. Soon, things start to get lively and the wild paraphrasing kicks in. (“You’re saying women aren’t intelligent enough to run these companies…?”) And then, of course, the lobsters.
As a warning to people who are about to be interviewed on mainstream news but who aren’t sufficiently left-leaning, it’s quite instructive.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 09:49
Something I've noticed is common to a lot of SJWs, particularly feminists. They quite deliberately conflate the terms "some" and "all" in order to dismiss an argument. Cathy Newman does a lot of that in this interview.
Posted by: Tim Newman | January 17, 2018 at 09:54
Rather fondles the nub of it.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 09:56
They'll still be sweeping up all the straw she was throwing around.
Posted by: Sam | January 17, 2018 at 10:04
If a man had done that interview with a woman, and then thanked her for 'being a good sport'....
Posted by: John Square | January 17, 2018 at 10:29
Went to see JP talk on Saturday, and it was a fascinating experience, and not just because of his talk. Fist of all, he got a standing ovation just by walking on stage (and another when he finished talking, and another once the Q&A was done). And a quite lovely sympathetic round of applause when he referenced the tribulations of the last 15 months and almost cracked up.
It's not the sort of fluffy woo-woo I would usually come out with, but there was a lot of love in the room, a sense that people really appreciated and respected what he was doing, by taking the abuse in the cause of the attempt to speak truth, and by acting as a role model/father figure. I joked to my wife beforehand that he was saving a generation, and hyperbole aside, I think there is something to that. She told me that, in the queue for the book signing after (and it seems practically everyone wanted to meet him, so it lasted ages) all the boys/men would smooth their clothes, tidy their hair and stand up straight.
I guess the main takeaway was twofold, for me.
1. There are people crying out for help, guidance, rules to live by that are lacking in modern society (whether societal norms, peer guidance, parental guidance)
2. We see so much of the clown quarter it's easy to forget that the crazies are a small proportion. There are lots of young people who reject it, and more importantly, want to do something better with themselves.
This was a packed room (the fastest selling event the organisers had ever put on, and so popular they had to rapidly schedule two more), with a lot more women than I expected. It was also the first talk I've ever been to where there was no nutter 'asking' a grandstanding 'question'.
I expect the legacy media/SJW spin that it's a cult, he's a guru, thinks he's the messiah, something something, will start soon, if it hasn't already.
Posted by: prm | January 17, 2018 at 10:46
Cathy Newman works for Channel 4 *and* The Telegraph. It's like she's double dumb.
Posted by: Hector Drummond, Vile Novelist | January 17, 2018 at 10:47
Oops, should be Sunday, not Saturday.
Posted by: prm | January 17, 2018 at 10:48
Hey! I thought this was a classy joint what didn’t allow public nub-fondling!
And furthermore—
[Drowned out by shrieking of girls that they were entirely too drunk to consent to fondling anyone’s nub and that their removing their minimal clothing, dancing naked on top of the bar, and going home with whichever man poured them into an Uber, is in no way to be construed as consent to anything, especially if in the light of day the man proved to be short, fat, poor, and smelly]
Posted by: Pogonip | January 17, 2018 at 10:56
she seems uninterested in hearing, and determined to prevent, any explanation for why her own assumptions may be inaccurate and misleading to viewers.
That.
Posted by: svh | January 17, 2018 at 11:17
"I suspect you're not very agreeable".
LOL
Posted by: rjmadden | January 17, 2018 at 11:25
I expect the legacy media/SJW spin that it’s a cult, he’s a guru, thinks he’s the messiah, something something, will start soon, if it hasn’t already.
I’d say Dr Peterson has, albeit unintentionally, already achieved something close to guru status, at least for some. The ironies and hazards of which will not, I think, be lost on him.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 11:29
her voice rising in pitch – one might say shrillness
:-D
Posted by: Joan | January 17, 2018 at 11:43
David, SJWs here think in terms of groups, not individuals—thus their confusion of “female” with “feminist.” Being gay, do you and Blowtorch Man run into this in England?
(If that’s too personal a question, I apologize and will quietly seat myself in the Booth of Correction and order the bread and water.)
Posted by: Pogonip | January 17, 2018 at 11:45
Being gay, do you and Blowtorch Man run into this in England?
Happily, we don’t generally have to interact with people who think in those terms. But yes, they do exist.
By the way, I think he prefers Captain Blowtorch. Or at a push, The Incinerator.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 11:52
Pardon me, Captain Blowtorch!
When he does get around to incinerating something, we want pictures!
Posted by: Pogonip | January 17, 2018 at 12:07
It occurs to me the scold face needed some updating.
Posted by: Farnsworth M Muldoon | January 17, 2018 at 12:33
They quite deliberately conflate the terms “some” and “all” in order to dismiss an argument. Cathy Newman does a lot of that in this interview.
Yes, absolutely. Any reference to statistical differences, however cautious and qualified, is met, almost immediately and often before the sentence can be finished, with “So you’re saying [all] women are…”
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 12:36
Jordan Peterson is probably the most important speaker living today. I'll be sitting down comfortably tonight with my freshly minted copy of '12 Rules For Life'
Posted by: Wh00ps | January 17, 2018 at 12:47
I’m paraphrasing, of course. But only a fraction more than Ms Newman is.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 12:56
a drinking game, in which you take a shot of tequila every time Ms Newman somehow misses the point entirely and interrupts
Just watched the first 5 mins. Better save the drinking game for Friday night.
Posted by: Alice | January 17, 2018 at 13:02
Better save the drinking game for Friday night.
I’d send any kids over to Grandma’s for the weekend and book Monday off work.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 13:06
She just keeps singing the same song. Never thinks out of the box about Men , she can only think on one track about Women. She's angry , you can tell she is angry at men.
Posted by: REVNANT DREAM | January 17, 2018 at 13:09
Good fill-in, Farnsworth M Muldoon. Current styles seem to say that any colour can be used that, when seen in nature, screams "I'm toxic!"
Posted by: C_Miner | January 17, 2018 at 13:37
She just keeps singing the same song.
Ms Newman leans heavily, and uncritically, on rote feminist talking points, and I don’t think feminists are generally known for their intellectual nimbleness and subtlety of mind.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 13:37
High time somebody took one of those Channel 4 bigots to bits. A joy to behold.
From the YouTube comments:
:-)
Posted by: Thomas Fuller | January 17, 2018 at 13:38
In case anyone is interested, Ms Newman was educated at Charterhouse and Oxford. And then, presumably, the leftism kicked in, eroding any benefit. Oh, and she used to oversee the Channel 4 News FactCheck site, which seems somewhat ironic, all things considered.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 13:48
“One gets the impression that Ms Newman is barely listening to anything Peterson says”
This is actually very likely, regardless of any boneheadedness specific to Ms. Newman (I haven't watched the video yet). Broadcast interviewers have so much else to think about, with the booth yelling in their ears all the time, that actually listening to the interviewee and altering one's line of questioning in response comes pretty low down the list.
I've always said that it doesn't matter how highbrow the subject matter, in terms of content, all TV news is somewhere around the level of a cheap tabloid. It's inherent to the form. They don't call them “shows” for nothing.
“We see so much of the clown quarter it's easy to forget that the crazies are a small proportion. There are lots of young people who reject it, and more importantly, want to do something better with themselves.”
That's why those who represent and stand up for them have to be silenced. The tiny proportion must be “mainstreamed”. It's why that word exists: they know they're nobodies, and have invented a whole set of techniques for appearing to be somebodies.
“Cathy Newman works for Channel 4 *and* The Telegraph. It's like she's double dumb.”
Says a lot about the 21st Century Telegraph, that.
Posted by: Sam Duncan | January 17, 2018 at 14:35
any colour can be used that, when seen in nature, screams "I'm toxic!"
The term you are looking for is aposematism.
Remember, kids. Bright colours mean stay away.
Posted by: Daniel Ream | January 17, 2018 at 14:35
... educated at Charterhouse and Oxford. And then, presumably, the leftism kicked in, eroding any benefit.
Oxford deserves some credit - quite a lot, I imagine. For all her deficiencies, Newman wasn't scraped from the left-hand side of the bell curve.
Posted by: Trevor | January 17, 2018 at 14:37
JBP must be a saint. Saint Job (Catholic upbringing, eh?)
His patience and tolerance are beyond me. How he can remain calm, focussed, especially focussed and unangry in the face of the cr*p that the interviewer (for want of a better word) throws at him is stunning. She is rude beyond belief, doesn't listen and is incapable of understanding.
I would have struggled not to have leapt across the studio and strangled the woman or walked off in a blaze of swearwords.
She is an intellectual pygmy and has had the bad luck to come across one of the most capable male intellectuals and has ended up showing herself up on prime time TV. She totally discredits herself.
And I only skipped through it. I'm saving it for later.
Posted by: bilbaoboy | January 17, 2018 at 14:43
This is actually very likely, regardless of any boneheadedness specific to Ms. Newman (I haven’t watched the video yet).
Yes, live broadcast interviews, especially short ones, are often terrible for the reasons you suggest. But the above is a half-hour interview recorded off-air for later (heavy) editing and broadcast, so I’m assuming there were fewer distractions. And fewer excuses.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 14:48
My apologies for the OT, but I'm off to watch the JP video. In the meantime, ponder this, from which we learn that one's melanin level can be an "ideology" and apparently there exists a (purportedly) academic journal styled--I shit you not--Whiteness and Education.
Posted by: R. Sherman | January 17, 2018 at 15:23
I'm Canadian, and I'm old enough to remember that when Canadians visited the Mother Country they had to be very careful in public debates because the standards of debate in England were so much higher than the flimsy, feels-based hair-splitting Canadians are used to.
I'm not that old.
Posted by: Lord Bob | January 17, 2018 at 15:26
Statistics is hard. :-)
Posted by: [+] | January 17, 2018 at 15:29
Statistics is hard. :-)
Offhand, I can’t think of another interview in which the interviewee has to correct the interviewer so many times, after almost every question.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 15:35
R.Sherman,
Hysteria is now something to be cultivated, even celebrated. Stereotypes, what are they?Posted by: Spiny Norman | January 17, 2018 at 15:40
"man proved to be short, fat, poor, and smelly"
Stop triggering me!
Posted by: PiperPaul | January 17, 2018 at 16:01
I'd say she's a dumb blonde, except that would be a cruel insult to dumb blondes the world over.
Posted by: Jeff | January 17, 2018 at 16:02
Rather fondles the nub of it.
Or, maybe, sums up the arse/ass-handing that I just saw.
There's a new sheriff in town and I like him already.
Posted by: Lancastrian Oik | January 17, 2018 at 16:06
I’d say she’s a dumb blonde,
Thing is, I don’t think she’s an idiot. You don’t get a first from Oxford, even in English literature, unless you’ve an IQ comfortably above average. I think it’s more that her political convictions, or political assumptions, have made her both dogmatic and foolish.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 16:07
Funnily enough I had just watched this after a link from another site. There's a facial/body reaction which women tend to do a lot in interviews which expresses more than disagreement more like contempt whereas Jordan does a genuinely amused reaction at how she is getting everything so wrong.
Posted by: mike fowle | January 17, 2018 at 16:08
This woman needs to get her ears cleaned. She didn't hear a word Peterson was saying.
Posted by: Eric | January 17, 2018 at 16:18
22'23''- that.
Posted by: Lancastrian Oik | January 17, 2018 at 16:28
The Oscar for this years' most convincing portrayal of an idiot goes to ...
I get your point. Of course she is not literally an idiot, but her repeated missing of obvious and fundamental points -- never mind nearly criminally mis-representing most of what JBP said -- left me torn between amazement and vicarious embarrassment.
One prejudice she did very effectively manage to reinforce is that women are generally incapable of analytical thought, and are particularly immune to statistical concepts.
Posted by: Jeff | January 17, 2018 at 16:31
...there exists a (purportedly) academic journal styled--I shit you not--Whiteness and Education.
Purportedly indeed.
If that isn't academic rigor, I don't know what is.
You will no doubt be surprised to learn that the authoress of the article in question is both a graduate of the infamous The New School, and herself suffering from Whiteness™.
Posted by: Farnsworth M Muldoon | January 17, 2018 at 16:34
I dunno what she is getting paid, but it's too much.
Posted by: MONGO! | January 17, 2018 at 16:34
her repeated missing of obvious and fundamental points -- never mind nearly criminally mis-representing most of what JBP said -- left me torn between amazement and vicarious embarrassment.
Well, as I hope I’ve illustrated here over the years, leftism tends to be quite corrosive to realism. It blunts the senses and makes otherwise clever people say remarkably dumb or dishonest things, often while admiring themselves.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 16:37
I think it’s more that her political convictions, or political assumptions, have made her both dogmatic and foolish.
It's more than that, though. Your average mainstream journalist believes unquestioningly that anyone who challenges leftist positions or other on-trend assumptions is either bigoted, stupid or both. It would never occur to them that they might need to think on their feet when interviewing someone from "the right". They would simply need to let the odious chauvinist condemn himself out of his own mouth with his silly, unfounded opinions.
Take the gender pay gay, as one of the main topics they discuss. Someone like Newman is incapable of thinking outside the established consensus on this matter: the pay gap exists because men oppress women. It is a monstrous historical injustice that prevails because governments are not willing to punish men for it. Simple.
But when confronted with someone who has studied the matter and has seen that there are multiple variables at play that suggest the established view is at the very least faulty, Newman has to fall back on "so you're saying..."
I think you'll find that she genuinely didn't expect to engage with facts and reason. She was forced to fall back on signalling to the viewer that this man's facts and reason should be ignored on account of his being a bullying, hate-filled man.
That, of course didn't work out very well for her, but somehow I don't think she'll learn...
Posted by: Horace Dunn | January 17, 2018 at 16:38
But when confronted with someone who has studied the matter and has seen that there are multiple variables at play that suggest the established view is at the very least faulty, Newman has to fall back on “so you’re saying...”
There’s also the bit where Ms Newman hears some, to me, unremarkable statement, about the authoritarian connotations of thinking solely in terms of victimhood and identity groups, and she seems momentarily dumbfounded, before insisting that Peterson must be some kind of contrarian provocateur, a troll. Which, if nothing else, suggests a remarkable narrowness of worldview. As if the only reason a person might disagree with left-of-centre conceits - and specifically, identity politics - is to be an annoyance.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 16:47
"Leftism tends to be quite corrosive to realism. It blunts the senses and makes otherwise clever people say remarkably dumb or dishonest things, often while admiring themselves."
That's a keeper!
Posted by: PiperPaul | January 17, 2018 at 16:47
“22'23''- that.”
Yes. Was it just after that where she had to pause to collect her thoughts, making it quite obvious that she's never actually thought about it before? It almost looked like an epiphany, except that within seconds she's back to the, “So you're saying...” stuff.
“It's more than that, though. Your average mainstream journalist believes unquestioningly that anyone who challenges leftist positions or other on-trend assumptions is either bigoted, stupid or both. It would never occur to them that they might need to think on their feet when interviewing someone from "the right". They would simply need to let the odious chauvinist condemn himself out of his own mouth with his silly, unfounded opinions.”
Exactly. That moment I'm talking about illustrates the point perfectly. But what's fascinating for me about this interview is that the usual technique didn't just fail, it did so spectacularly and obviously. It's hard to imagine that anyone but the most hardline Leftist could watch it and still assume that Dr. Peterson is an ignorant, hateful, bigot.
Posted by: Sam Duncan | January 17, 2018 at 16:55
Re my previous, I was reminded of Matt Frei’s incredulous, poorly-researched interview with Thomas Sowell for the BBC. Oddly enough, or not oddly at all, Mr Frei airs precisely the kinds of vanities that Sowell criticises, which may explain his difficulty in comprehending Sowell’s points.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 17:15
It would never occur to them that they might need to think on their feet when interviewing someone from "the right".
The average Leftist views all interactions with people on the Right, (wherein "right" is defined as "anyone who disagrees with me"), as a sort of kibuki theater. There are established roles and plots which can never, ever be altered in any way. Or, as someone mentioned in the comments a few days ago, it is a Neo-Scholasticism. They have received the wisdom and there need be no new inquiry or investigation.
Posted by: R. Sherman | January 17, 2018 at 17:38
Ms Newman probably believed all the feminist-media BS about Professor Peterson. She should have done her homework better. Embarrassing!
Posted by: Jonathan | January 17, 2018 at 18:09
"By 11 minutes in she is saying ‘I think I take issue with (that)’, before demonstrating that she can’t. Soon she is reduced to dropping the bombshell observation that ‘all women are different’. By 16.45 there is a palpable win, as Peterson points out that Newman has exactly the disagreeable and aggressive qualities that allow certain types of people to succeed."
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/watch-cathy-newmans-catastrophic-interview-with-jordan-peterson/
Posted by: Mags | January 17, 2018 at 18:17
If I were trying to discuss this issue with Cathy Newman, I would have lost my temper and started telling her that she was either a stupid bint or a dishonest left-wing SFB.
Posted by: pst314 | January 17, 2018 at 18:27
This woman needs to get her ears cleaned. She didn't hear a word Peterson was saying.
Her mind needs cleaning. A power wash to remove the leftist dogma that prevent her synapses from functioning.
Posted by: pst314 | January 17, 2018 at 19:22
Holy cow, that was hilarious. Talk about having your arse handed to you. Ms 'So you're saying' could not have embarrassed herself more. I especially liked when he so flummoxed her at around 22:30 that she was literally lost for words. I have never seen a TV interviewer so caught off guard, and you just gotta love JP's 'Gotcha!'. The way he simply laughed off her non-stop attacks was an absolute inspiration to watch. I wish I had his ability to treat such attacks with his good humour and good grace.
I've been a big fan of JP since he burst on the scene just over a year ago, but this ranks up there with one of his best.
OK, I'm off to tidy my room now ;-)
Posted by: Paul in Marbella | January 17, 2018 at 19:26
The average Leftist views all interactions with people on the Right [...] as a sort of kibuki theater.
Yes, but also: leftists always assume themselves to be more intelligent, educated and better informed that those who disagree with them. They're incapable of thinking otherwise. And you just know that Newman isn't going to come away from the interview thinking "he made some interesting points there, perhaps I should look up some of the research that he was drawing on for his answers to see whether there's something in it".
It's almost as though they don't want to understand the reasons behind the pay differentials they find so distressing.
Posted by: Horace Dunn | January 17, 2018 at 19:28
“Stop triggering me!”
And, reader, I was SO drunk I married him.
And it’s everyone’s fault but mine.
Posted by: Pogonip | January 17, 2018 at 19:33
leftists always assume themselves to be more intelligent, educated and better informed that those who disagree with them
Living, as I do, in bluest Massachusetts, I am all too familiar with that aspect. A sneering superiority over non-believers is a defining characteristic of many on the left. They are often otherwise decent people (or seem to be), but then some ugly, condescending aside will come out of their mouths. People who disagree with them are evidently evil and selfish, not just incorrect.
Posted by: Ben | January 17, 2018 at 19:49
Or at a push, The Incinerator.
As portrayed by Robert Ginty?
https://youtu.be/cnDJa_HZVP0
Posted by: Squires | January 17, 2018 at 19:52
Thing is, I don’t think she’s an idiot. You don’t get a first from Oxford, even in English literature, unless you’ve an IQ comfortably above average. I think it’s more that her political convictions, or political assumptions, have made her both dogmatic and foolish.
=======
wisdom> intelligence> education> schooling
the only thing she can produce proof of is a certification of her schooling. The fact that is from Oxford says more about Oxford, most of it bad, than it does about her.
Posted by: fnord | January 17, 2018 at 20:38
"They have received the wisdom"
"How dare you disagree with me?! Just look at all those books (or perhaps climate alarmist studies) on my shelf over there!"
Posted by: PiperPaul | January 17, 2018 at 21:08
Great to see Peterson looking so relaxed and comfortable in his chair whilst fending off these straw men with consummate good humour and even cheerfulness. The word "magisterial" springs to mind. And there's an obvious contrast to the Canadian TV interviews he did in late 2016, in which he was evidently seething with righteous indignation and sitting up straight. This is lobster expert level.
I wasn't able to make it to any of his talks in London, but I gather he'll be doing a tour of the country at some point. Could we get him and Rees-Mogg on the same stage, do you think, or would that cross some cosmic negentropy limit?
Posted by: Ian | January 17, 2018 at 21:27
Just finished watching the video ...
I don't think I could have been that polite & good humored with a harridan engaging in such bad faith haranguing.
Posted by: Darleen | January 17, 2018 at 21:42
She got spanked. Wet her boxers.
Posted by: Jamie MacMaster | January 17, 2018 at 21:46
It does get rather surreal. And it is, I think, instructive, though perhaps not in ways that Ms Newman would have wished.
Seen in the light of the Newman-Peterson interview, this cartoon now seems particularly ironic.
Posted by: Nikw211 | January 17, 2018 at 21:49
Heh.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 21:58
I don’t think I could have been that polite & good humored with a harridan engaging in such bad faith haranguing.
Perhaps the idea, the tactic, is to be erratic, obtuse and needlessly belligerent, in the hope of leaving the victim flustered. Though it’s possible I’m giving Ms Newman too much credit.
Posted by: David | January 17, 2018 at 22:07
I actually know something about interviewing, which puts me one up on that fool woman. She’s breaking all the rules. You do not interrupt your respondent. You do not argue with him. You do not tell him what YOU think, because it’s likely to “contaminate” his responses; most people want to be agreeable and to go along, so if you state your opinion he’ll probably agree. Granted I don’t think that would be a problem with this particular respondent. You also do not tell him what you think because you aren’t being paid for that; you’re being paid to find out what HE thinks. She did at least 75% of the talking; it couldn’t have been more obvious that she didn’t care what he had to say. She jumped all over, I could not tell what the topic was supposed to be—his book, maybe. You don’t do that. You stick with the topic and you “probe.” You say “ And can you tell me a little more about how the value of flidgets reflects the fluctuations of the world economy,” or whatever the topic is; this will often prompt a response lie, “ Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that flidget value blah blah blah.” Only after the respondent is all probed out on topic #1 do you go to topic #2, if there is one.
Why is the BBC paying her to interview people?
Posted by: Pogonip | January 17, 2018 at 22:49
Er, I meant “...a response like,” though if you are interviewing a politician, I suppose “ a response lie” fits too.😊
Posted by: Pogonip | January 17, 2018 at 22:51
Why is the BBC paying her to interview people?
They aren't - it's Channel 4. Still, two cheeks of the same arse.
Posted by: Bigland | January 17, 2018 at 23:52
I don't think I could have been that polite & good humored with a harridan engaging in such bad faith haranguing.
That's Peterson all over. Seen the video with the trans activists heckling him? He's totally in control at all times.
Posted by: Wh00ps | January 17, 2018 at 23:57
“You also do not tell him what you think because you aren’t being paid for that; you’re being paid to find out what HE thinks.”
I find myself yelling that at the TV all the time. Hell, in the UK, it's kind of supposed to be the law. (It's a bloody absurd law, in my opinion, but there it is.)
Posted by: Sam Duncan | January 18, 2018 at 00:14
Gad Saad's take on this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YetzM2_SKKY
Posted by: champ | January 18, 2018 at 00:54
@Nik
Beware Burge's Law and New Yorker comics.
Posted by: R. Sherman | January 18, 2018 at 03:16
"Your average mainstream journalist believes unquestioningly that anyone who challenges leftist positions or other on-trend assumptions is either bigoted, stupid or both."
And the left in general, from the general public to the professors at prestigious universities.
An example: Very few on the left can accept that the root cause of Islamic terrorism is religious doctrine. Their minds are so saturated with secular progressive dogma that they cannot believe that such violence could have any but secular causes, especially classic Marxist ones such as poverty.
Posted by: pst314 | January 18, 2018 at 03:35
It’s fascinating to watch. Ms Newman compensates for a lack of nuance in her thinking by repeatedly interrupting with questions that simply ignore previous answers.
Short version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgKE6Voe__k
Posted by: Rafi | January 18, 2018 at 08:09
Short version.
Heh. It makes no sense - and therefore captures, quite vividly, the flavour of the exchange. As when Peterson points out the authoritarian aspects of thinking solely in terms of identity groups, which somehow results in the accusation, “You’re saying that trans activists could lead to the deaths of millions of people.”
It’s like watching an episode of Brass Eye.
Posted by: David | January 18, 2018 at 08:23
I see the memes have begun.
Posted by: David | January 18, 2018 at 09:02
Fascinating to watch. She clearly came in with a brief/strategy to trap Dr Peterson in a sexist/denialist position, and couldn't find a new approach when he reasonably, calmly parried or reversed everything she threw at him. I was particularly touched when he politely pointed out how her confrontational approach hadn't been easy for him. His expression suggests it really hasn't, but he maintains his composure and even a good. Humour like an absolute boss.
Sagacious, is the word I'd choose.
Posted by: NielsR | January 18, 2018 at 09:27
I was particularly touched when he politely pointed out how her confrontational approach hadn’t been easy for him.
Well, I’d imagine it’s unpleasant to appear on national TV news and immediately find yourself being smeared by association and then, for the next half hour, being wilfully misconstrued in the most obtuse and bizarre terms, and realising that almost every question is an attempt at a trap, an attempt to publicly humiliate. And it’s telling that Ms Newman struggles with the notion of rights and reciprocity. I suspect it tells us something, not only about her, but about her political constituency.
Posted by: David | January 18, 2018 at 09:42
It’s like watching an episode of Brass Eye.
That.
Also this, which occurs within the first four minutes.
Peterson has just finished outlining his reasons behind the statement that (western) men need to "grow the hell up" which Newman quoted to him in her opening question. She then goes on:
Newman: What’s in it for the women, though?
Peterson: Well, what sort of partner do you want? Do you want an overgrown child? Or do you want someone to contend with that’s going to help you?
Newman: So you’re saying women have some sort of duty to sort of help fix the crisis of masculinity?
This is not simply a strawman as many others have (rightly) pointed out - it is also arguably an attempt to dominate Peterson though emotional blackmail.
It is the kind of response an abusive partner (or a partner in an abusive frame of mind) might make when out of the blue they suddenly explode: "Why did you leave your running shoes in the hall when you know I want them left by the kitchen door!?!?" despite the fact that the intimate other so accused has for many years left their running shoes in the hall with neither comment nor complaint. The accused partner must concede the fault or risk losing the respect, goodwill and love of the accuser
The content of the accusation itself is therefore mostly if not wholly irrelevant - it is the import of the emotional outburst that counts.
Given the superficial content of much of Newman's questions it seems particularly ironic that this is the approach she should have taken.
That she should also have taken this approach with someone who for decades now has made his living as a clinical psychologist (including a stint at Harvard) was ill-judged to a really quite spectacular degree, as the video shows.
Posted by: Nikw211 | January 18, 2018 at 09:55
The content of the accusation itself is therefore mostly if not wholly irrelevant - it is the import of the emotional outburst that counts.
Ms Newman obviously felt entitled to frame Peterson as some kind of misogynist “alt right” villain, and to react as if he were one, regardless of reality and regardless of anything he actually said; but in the attempt, her own obnoxiousness and belligerent idiocy were hard to miss.
Posted by: David | January 18, 2018 at 11:13
Newman: So you’re saying women have some sort of duty to sort of help fix the crisis of masculinity?
This is not simply a strawman as many others have (rightly) pointed out - it is also arguably an attempt to dominate Peterson though emotional blackmail.
Yeah. This exchange also reminds me of the irrational "Oh, so it's MY fault now?" response to an simple statement of fact, or even a collective mea culpa like Peterson's.
Which, of course, is the predictable escalation in your example too, should the accused say,"But I've always left them in the hall."
To see this kind of dysfunction played out on a national level and cheered on by the left is...well, disturbing to say the least.
Posted by: Burnsie | January 18, 2018 at 12:06
It’s like watching an episode of Brass Eye.
Not knowing what that was, other than a show, I had to look it up and watch a couple episodes, from the one on drugs:
Now I get your point, and thanks for giving something else to waste time with, hilarious though the episodes are - "To maintain the anonymity of the 15 year olds, we replaced them with five year olds...", now we know where the Useless Studies ninnies got their "research" techniques.
Posted by: Farnsworth M Muldoon | January 18, 2018 at 12:08
Just say No to Cake. Remember, it's a made-up drug.
Posted by: TomJ | January 18, 2018 at 12:55
“To maintain the anonymity of the 15 year olds, we replaced them with five year olds...”
Ah, the Nineties.
Posted by: David | January 18, 2018 at 12:59
Just say No to Cake. Remember, it's a made-up drug.
Worst of all, it activates the part of the brain known as Shatner's Bassoon.
Posted by: Farnsworth M Muldoon | January 18, 2018 at 13:01
This is not simply a strawman as many others have (rightly) pointed out - it is also arguably an attempt to dominate Peterson though emotional blackmail.
Leftists (and American liberals) do that a lot. And then, when their targets dispute their accusations, and even turn the tables and point out how authoritarian or even totalitarian they are, they accuse their targets of "being angry people".
Posted by: pst314 | January 18, 2018 at 13:17
Here's the man himself in The Spectator's "Life" supplement, September 2017:
‘The humanities in the universities have become almost incomprehensibly shallow and corrupt in multiple ways,’ he says. ‘They don’t rely on science because they are not scientifically educated. This is true particularly in sociology, where they mask their complete ignorance of science by claiming that science is just another mode of knowing and that it’s only privileged within the structure of the oppressive Eurocentric patriarchy. It’s appalling. We’re not having an intelligent conversation, we are having an ideological conversation.
‘Students, instead of being ennobled or inculcated into the proper culture, the last vestiges of structure are stripped from them by post-modernism and neo-Marxism, which defines everything in terms of relativism and power.’
Posted by: Lancastrian Oik | January 18, 2018 at 13:38
I beg your pardon?
Cake? A made-up drug?
I've been fighting an addiction, and losing, for decades now! Black Forest Gateaux, Victoria Sponge, Lemon Drizzle, I'm addicted to all of them! And there are dealers everywhere.
Everywhere I tell you!
Ahem.
Posted by: Tom | January 18, 2018 at 13:46
And then, when their targets dispute their accusations, and even turn the tables and point out how authoritarian or even totalitarian they are, they accuse their targets of "being angry people".
Not to mention the "Kafka Trap," where disputing an accusation constitutes proof of the truth of the accusation, i.e. denying and refuting the feminist trope of the Gender Pay Gap demonstrates the need for more feminism and the internal misogyny of the Denier.
Posted by: R. Sherman | January 18, 2018 at 14:46
they accuse their targets of “being angry people”
And if you object to being slandered as a racist, daily, based on nothing, then you’re exhibiting “white fragility,” which is construed, rather conveniently, as proof of your racism.
This is the educated left in the twenty-first century.
Posted by: David | January 18, 2018 at 14:54
David, every time you cite one of your prior posts as evidence in some current debate, I imagine you--resplendent in your velour blogging thong--thinking, "See, I told you wankers this years ago."
Posted by: R. Sherman | January 18, 2018 at 15:06