David Thompson
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July 16, 2018

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David
The movement that has popularized the term ‘toxic masculinity’ shares tools and conclusions with those who see signs of ‘white supremacy’ everywhere they look. Intersectionalists have in common with one another a particular rhetorical trick: Any claim made by a member of an historically oppressed group is unquestionably true. Questioning claims is, itself, an act of oppression. This opens the door for anyone who is willing to lie to obtain power. If you cannot question claims, any claim can be made.

Heather Heying on toxic femininity.

[+]

Would-be robber chooses wrong restaurant...

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/302202/

David

Would-be robber chooses wrong restaurant...

It’s nice to see someone receiving an education.

Chester Draws

Much of the Left opposed the Khmer Rouge. The hard-line Stalinists for a start, because of their belief in the peasantry rather than urban proletariat.

It's saying something that even Stalinists have more idea of how an economy works than the Moaists!

The real supporters of the Khmer Rouge weren't "The Left", but the revolution loving, anti-everything Western crowd.

Chomsky isn't FOR anything. He's against a whole lot though, which is why he is worse than Jeremy Cornyn (who I can't stand, but is at least for some things and actually engages in politics rather than sniping superiority from the sidelines).

You can tell the sort. They are the ones who won't admit anything good about their own country. They'll support Palestnian rights for an independent Palestine, while simultaneously decrying Trump for his "xenophobic" nationalism. Look, you are either for national identities or you aren't. You don't get to pick based solely on being the opposite of the US and still say you have a coherent political position.

The real Left aren't pro-Islam, because medieval views don't build a progressive industrial society. If your position is pro-Islam, then you are faking being on the Socialist Left.

It's one reason the biggest poseurs are "anarchists". Then they really stand FOR pretty much nothing.

Hector Drummond, Vile Novelist

I have no idea what 'the real left' is any more.

TDK

The real Left aren't pro-Islam, because medieval views don't build a progressive industrial society.

The problem with this statement is twofold:
1. Left-Right terminology is unhelpful in trying to understand the modern progressive
2. The people on the left who agree with you are: isolated minorities (see Nick Cohen, Harry's Place et al), dead (see Norman Geras, Christopher Hitchens) or mugged by reality. Unfortunately, the "real left" is what those who call themselves left believe, and not some mystical true version.

David

Question asked.

Joan

Question asked.

They always assume the rules don't apply to them.

W Krebs

Question asked

An old-fashioned answer:

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

David

They always assume the rules don’t apply to them.

They, being so fabulous and enlightened, should somehow be exempt. Apparently, reciprocity is only for suckers.

See also Laurie Penny.

And these preening, would-be parasites call other people selfish.

Lancastrian Oik

The real supporters of the Khmer Rouge weren't "The Left", but the revolution loving, anti-everything Western crowd.

Chomsky’s collaborator Edward S. Herman wrote a snotty letter to the NYT.

Trans: “Even when we’re about as wrong as it’s possible to be, we’re still right”.

Lancastrian Oik

Aaarrghhh.

Sorry. I denounce myself.

David

Aaarrghhh.

[ Quietly extinguishes raging dumpster fire of HTML. ]

David

Andrew Klavan on leftism and thuggery:

You’re not your good intentions. You’re not your noble feelings. Your deeds are what make you who you are… The “labour activists” who surrounded Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi and her boyfriend in a movie theatre, spit on her, taunted him, chased them away; the restaurant workers who refused service to White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders and then followed her family to another location to harass them; the protesters who surrounded Mitch McConnell outside a Kentucky restaurant, telling the 76-year-old Senate majority leader, “We know where you live...” -- these people are thugs. Their high purposes, their righteous philosophies, their political certainties — all these are worth exactly as much as a wife-beater’s tears: nothing. They are the bulliers of women and the menacers of old men.

See also this.

R. Sherman

As an aside to the Blackwell piece, my youngest is off to his freshman year in college and as part of his admission to an honors program is required to read First They Killed My Father. It's the only book to be discussed during the Freshman week seminar. I was somewhat surprised, wondering how a college leftist was going to sugarcoat the Khmer Rouge, but perhaps I'm not imaginative enough.

WTP

Much of the Left opposed the Khmer Rouge.

Haven't investigated much of this but I do recall a good amount of support for Pol Pot at first from the left in the US...

`The growing hysteria of the administration's posture on Cambodia,'' declared Senator George McGovern, ``seems to me to reflect a determined refusal to consider what the fall of the existing government in Phnom Penh would actually mean. . . . We should be able to see that the kind of government which would succeed Lon Nol's forces would most likely be a government . . . run by some of the best-educated, most able intellectuals in Cambodia.''

Stanley Karnow, hailed nowadays as an authoritative Indochina historian, was quite sure that ``the `loss' of Cambodia would . . . be the salvation of the Cambodians.'' There was no point helping the noncommunist government survive, he wrote, ``since the rebels are unlikely to kill more innocent civilians than are being slaughtered by the rockets promiscuously hitting Phnom Penh.''

The New Republic told its readers that the ouster of Lon Nol should be of no concern, since ``the Cambodian people will finally be rescued from the horrors of a war that never really had any meaning.''

http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/1998/04/30/american_leftists_were_pol_pots_cheerleaders/

I specifically recall support from Chris Dodd, more so than the pacifist statement from him later in this article, just don't recall it exactly. Just that whenever I hear about the Khmer Rouge, I am reminded of CD.

Captain Nemo

The UK too. Don't forget Malcolm Caldwell, WTP. Murdered shortly after a meeting with Pol Pot, under dubious circumstances. Reality can be a real bitch sometimes.

David

Today’s word is journalism.

Tom

...run by some of the best-educated, most able intellectuals in Cambodia.

Good Lord, that's a statement to scare the bejesus out of anyone with a lick of common sense, and it's more galling coming from a man who lived through the damage caused by McNamara's 'Whiz Kids' in the Pentagon. Perhaps being on the same side of the political aisle induces short term memory loss?

Captain Nemo

Today's word is journalism.

And in a continution of today's lesson, Exhibit B: https://twitter.com/HuffPost/status/1018290098503340033

Tom

...since the rebels are unlikely to kill more innocent civilians than are being slaughtered by the rockets promiscuously hitting Phnom Penh.

Wow.

His Wikipedia entry is silent on Mr. Karnow's political views but as he wrote occasionally for the New Republic I'll guess they were left of center. He lived until 2013 so I wonder if he ever saw the photos of the literal piles of skulls left behind by the Khmer Rouge and whether he ever felt shame for such a fatuously stupid remark.*

*currently scanning my own memory for same, but as I'm not a journalist I haven't committed them to paper for posterity.

WTP

Malcolm Caldwell

Was not aware of Mr. C, thanks Captain Nemo. Odd that, eh? Can you imagine a philosophical f-up like that happening to a conservative? Say being murdered shortly after meeting Pinochet or Franco, and it not being something repeated ad infinitum in Teh Narrative?

R. Sherman

@WTP et al.

I, too, recall a great deal of celebration among leftists in these parts when Lon Nol took a powder. To my knowledge, none of those reveling in the Communist takeover of Cambodia ever publicly put on a hair shirt and confessed their complicity in the murder of millions. That's not surprising, of course, inasmuch they can fall back on the all-purpose indulgence of "that wasn't real communism/collectivism/socialism,etc."

Daniel Ream

The real supporters of the Khmer Rouge weren't "The Left", but the revolution loving, anti-everything Western crowd.

No true Scotsman would ever support the Khmer Rouge.

David

Meanwhile, two eternal questions.

jabrwok

The real supporters of the Khmer Rouge weren't "The Left", but the revolution loving, anti-everything Western crowd.

So then...they were "The Left"? "Revolution loving, anti-everything Western" seems to sum up today's Left pretty well.

Damian

No true Scotsman would ever support the Khmer Rouge.

Way back in the day, I knew this singer of a slightly-famous goth band and his younger girlfriend. At some point, I heard through the rumor mill that she only allowed him to have anal sex with her so that she could technically still claim to be a virgin for whatever reason.

(Hey, I don’t know; it wasn’t like I was asking to be kept apprised of this stuff.)

Anyway, my point is, it’s amazing the rationalizations people come up with to claim that Marx’s moral virginity remains pure. Entire nations may have gotten brutally reamed, but true Marxism was never officially consummated.

In other news, Theodore Dalrymple has a modest proposal to make the world of theater more inclusive.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Meanwhile, two eternal questions.

One answer, this is Jif.

Let me know when someone devises a jraphics interchange format.

Damian

First Elle, now Teen Vogue. Are fashion magazine readers the new proletariat or something?

jabrwok

Graphic Image Format. Not Giraffic Image Format.

So hard "G".

David

One answer, this is Jif.

So it’s a filth-blasting kitchen spray that’s also great on toast?

Charles Pike

Today's word is journalism

http://www.unz.com/isteve/vox-lessons-from-female-spotted-hyenas-for-the-metoo-era/

Given the intractable nature of the gender wars, I take solace in the example of the sponge, which reproduces asexually, making mating and the accompanying waste of resources unnecessary. Sponges prove the human assumption that sexual reproduction is inevitable — or even natural — completely wrong.

Sam Duncan

“Good Lord, that's a statement to scare the bejesus out of anyone with a lick of common sense”

Just what I was about to say, Tom. And the thought occurs to me that the correct, classically-derived, name for such a régime would be “aristocracy”. Funny old world, isn't it?

“No true Scotsman would ever support the Khmer Rouge.”

They weren't Real Socialism™.

“So it’s a filth-blasting kitchen spray that’s also great on toast?”

Except that's been “Snickers”... sorry, “Cif” for about twenty years. Which might explain the odd smell...

Adam

Ash Sarkar is modeling a pose for young teens to reflexively imitate. She also indirectly makes the case for never allowing teens to vote.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

So it’s a filth-blasting kitchen spray that’s also great on toast?

It's a dessert topping and a floor wax !

She also indirectly makes the case for never allowing teens to vote.

Well, to her credit she did call Morgan an idiot, so she may be capable of learning.

Regarding everything else here, one would almost get the impression that people who have done nothing but read books and write papers for their entire lives have no idea how the world, or people actually in it, actually works.

jabrwok

one would almost get the impression that people who have done nothing but read books and write papers for their entire lives have no idea how the world, or people actually in it, actually works.

Sadly, the "done nothing..." bit describes my life fairly well, yet I hope I have some idea how the world, and the people in it, actually works.

Probably a large part of the problem is *what* people are reading. I've just checked out _First they killed my father_, about the Khmer Rouge. _Hungry Ghosts: Mao's secret Famine_ was another book I've read (mostly...got really depressing after a while and I couldn't finish it). Not the sort of thing I was ever assigned in High School for some reason.

Just sent a student home with F.A. Hayek's _The Road to Serfdom_, so hopefully some good is being done there.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

jabrwok -

I was referring to the apologists for the Khmer Rouge, and all the other academics who never quite get cause and effect regardless of what pet cause they are trumpeting, not anyone commenting here.

Captain Nemo

She seems like a charming person: https://twitter.com/rebeccarmix/status/1018336544808153088

And if you're a man and you disagree with her premise, and call her out on her obnoxiousness, you have "fragile masculinity" apparently.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

She seems like a charming person:

I'll go with, "What are things that never happened? Alex."

OTOH, I'm not a waterbending slytherpuff, so what do I know.

Daniel Ream

She seems like a charming person

"waterbending slytherpuff"

Pretty much all you need to know right there.

This actually ties in to the previous post:

people who have done nothing but read books and write papers for their entire lives have no idea how the world, or people actually in it, actually works

in that once upon a time, fantasy and SF writers had actually Done Something with their lives prior to settling down to write - military service, or diplomatic work abroad, getting smuggled out of Russia in a suitcase, or being part of a Jewish street gang. Their work was often allegorical and incorporated their real-life experiences.

For at least a generation now, fantasy and SF has been written by authors who have done nothing except attend university and read other fantasy/SF novels (and more recently, watch staggering amounts of anime). The result is fiction which is increasingly shallow and tediously bourgeois, looking more and more inward and recycling the same tropes over and over again like an ourobouros consuming its own tail - and outside of the same privileged middle class bubble, completely unrelatable.

jabrwok

I was referring to...not anyone commenting here.

I didn't mean to imply otherwise. Unfortunately I do rather exemplify the "done nothing". Fortunately that includes genocide among the things I haven't accomplished:-).

R. Sherman

Meanwhile, via Ace, the the War to Destroy Title IX and Women's Sports obtains some unexpected allies. I can imagine high school football coaches in, say, Texas to remain resistant to such entreaties.

R. Sherman

From the above linked article:

In that article, Walton-Fisette highlights the emerging field of social justice gym pedagogy, and calls upon gym teachers to impart social justice issues into gym lessons, such as sexism, body image, religion, socioeconomic status and motor elitism.

Because how can you learn to hit a jump shot if you haven't studied the efforts of the early reformer Jan Hus?

And,

Team sports, such as lacrosse and badminton, are discouraged too, as they encourage competitiveness and are often “white-oriented” or otherwise racially stereotyped.

I'm sure the Iroquois are shocked to hear about lacrosse. And fancy team games encouraging competitiveness. Who'd a thought?

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Speaking of being totally divorced from the real world and doing nothing real, via Ace and PJ Media, please let me introduce Jennifer L. Walton-Fisette, who "...highlights the emerging field of social justice gym pedagogy".

Her scholarship explores the critical examination of girls' lived experiences and embodied identities within physical education and physical activity through student voice; assessment and curriculum development...[her research methods include]...Semi-structured interviews, Focus group interviews, Activist research where participants are co-researchers...

Yeah, that last bit sounds as it will always be totally bias free.

“If we are not going to teach about social justice issues, then who will? We have the medium and venue to do so and I believe that if PE teachers choose not to teach about social justice issues, then they are perpetuating social inequalities and have the grave chance of causing more harm,” she added.

Drop and give me twenty quotes from Mao and Chomsky !

David

the emerging field of social justice gym pedagogy,

At which point, sarcasm seem unnecessary.

Oh, and a Bosch progress report. Now on season two. Something tells me Jeri Ryan is up to no good.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

At which point, sarcasm seem unnecessary.

Sarcasm is never unnecessary.

While you are viewing Amazon productions, unless you hate Billy Bob Thornton, give Goliath a go.

David

unless you hate Billy Bob Thornton, give Goliath a go.

Thanks for the tip. I don’t think I have an opinion on Billy Bob Thornton. I do, though, tend to binge on one TV drama at a time. If I lose momentum or get distracted by some other show, or just other commitments, my interest fades. There’s the entire second season of Westworld still untouched. I seem to have ‘fallen out’ of it, as it were.

Burnsie

For anyone who enjoys reading the Harry Bosch novels, I heartily recommend as well the Dave Robichaux series by James Lee Burke and the Arkady Renko series by Martin Cruz Smith.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dave+robicheaux+series+in+order&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-ab

https://www.google.com/search?q=arkady+renko+series+in+order&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-ab

Hopp Singg

The real Left aren't pro-Islam, because medieval views don't build a progressive industrial society. If your position is pro-Islam, then you are faking being on the Socialist Left.

So what might be some good examples of the "real left"? Preferably where they are, or were, in power so that I can judge them by their actions rather than their words.

Lancastrian Oik

Bosch.

As a mea culpa for the earlier fire, may I also recommend Justified and Animal Kingdom as well as contributing towards the cost of dry cleaning the curtains.?

*mutters*

That was well overdue anyway.

David

*mutters*
That was well overdue anyway.

Er, I think you’ll find that particular style of drape – singed and suspiciously stained - is very fashionable right now.

David

Right, I’m outta here. There’s Bosch to watch.

Play nicely. Use coasters.

Ted S., Catskill Mtns., NY, USA

They weren't Real Socialism™.

The only difference between Socialism and Fascism is that nobody claims Real Fascism has never been tried.

Governor Squid

If we are not going to teach about social justice issues, then who will?

Can you imagine the junior high where the gym teachers are the first, last, and only source of social justice education indoctrination?

Pogonip

“Singed”?

Did the Incinemarator get loose again?

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Can you imagine the junior high where the gym teachers are the first, last, and only source of social justice education indoctrination?

Actually junior and senior. As ours was a retired Navy Chief, yes, we were all equally worthless, without regard to race, creed, color, religion, class, physical ability, or political affiliation. That is true social justice.

lotocoti

They weren't Real Socialism™

The KR's genocidal campaign against the Khmer Viet Minh and other ethnic minorities, plus their expansionist dreams means you could toss them in with the National Socialists, thus preserving the purity of Real Socialism™.

Spiny Norman

WTP,

I specifically recall support from Chris Dodd, more so than the pacifist statement from him later in this article, just don't recall it exactly. Just that whenever I hear about the Khmer Rouge, I am reminded of CD.

It's a bit ironic that the anti-war left's biggest complaint about the non-communist governments of Indochina were that they were "corrupt", and Chris Dodd ends his political career as the most personally corrupt member of the US Senate. Retired to great fanfare, too, not hauled off by the police.

Pogonip

Hi Farnsworth,

My dad was a drill sergeant! 😄

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Pogonip,

Much respect - being on the trail takes a special kind of toughness.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Let me revise and extend - physical and mental, particularly the latter, the movies don't come close to showing what the Drill Sergeants (or service equivalents) have to do.

Darleen

My dad was a drill sergeant!

My dad was a DI at Fort Ord during Korea.

Daniel Ream

There’s the entire second season of Westworld still untouched. I seem to have ‘fallen out’ of it, as it were.

Rewatch the last episode of season one, then strap in. It's excellent, and builds on the themes of first season and straps a JATO rocket to them. Fantastic television.

Let me follow up the Justified recommendation with Banshee, The Americans, and Hell on Wheels. If you need a palate cleanser after all that, Chuck is some silly fun.

David

What being a communist means.

Ms Sarkar, quoted, is a “broadcaster and lecturer,” and “a senior editor at Novara Media.”

Not entirely unrelated.

Chester Draws

A little more close reading would go a long way.

I didn't say no-one on Left supported Pol Pot. Only that many actual Leftists were bitterly opposed to him. Pretty much every Communist party in the West split into Leninist and Maoist, and they did not get on.

Pol Pot's politics have pretty much nothing in common with that of Khrushchev, say. Industrialisation, education, money, family, ideals, ... The only thing they have in common is state control of the economy.

I utterly despise people who think common ownership is an acceptable way to run an economy, but that doesn't mean that everyone who does so is basically the same. There's no monolithic "Communism", any more than there's a monolithic Christianity.

Can I name Leftists who oppose Islam? Sure, that would be pretty much every Left wing party in a country with established Islam. The USSR, Mao, the original Baath parties, before they faded to dull personal dictatorships. Because Islam is resolutely opposed to them, they are resolutely opposed to Islam.

Until recently the Left in the West was anti-Islam. As the old hard-core Socialists have been replaced by the new breed which is merely anti-everything Western, they've been turned.

But this cannot last. The deep progressives are basically anti all religion, Islam only gets a pass while supporting it is being anti-Western. Their position on it is incoherent and cannot go the long distance.

I think everyone on this board can see that even moderate feminism and Islam are incompatible. Eventually they must come to blows. Already there are feminists from the Islamic countries being increasingly rude about the idiotic positions of their Western counterparts.

It survives thus far only because the modern Left pretty much has nothing that it is for. Hence incompatible positions don't cause the trouble they did in an era when they had a (admittedly stupid) agreed plan. They're an enormous protest movement, not a coherent whole.

Hal

Team sports, such as lacrosse and badminton, are discouraged too, as they encourage competitiveness and are often “white-oriented” or otherwise racially stereotyped.

Ollamalitzli.

On behalf of the followers of Quetzalcoatl, one should always begin and end the day with a grateful heart.

Hal

Pretty much every Communist party in the West split into Leninist and Maoist, and they did not get on.

Two fellows stroll into a pub.

Rafi

Not entirely unrelated.

So much for following the facts wherever they go.

David

So much for following the facts wherever they go.

It’s the Long March in action. And so we get grad students complaining, proudly, about expectations of meticulousness, detachment and objectivity – on grounds that such things are insufficiently glamorous and statusful compared with activism and declaring one’s “political commitments.”

Damian

Ms Sarkar, quoted, is a “broadcaster and lecturer,” and “a senior editor at Novara Media.”

I like that Novara's website is already selling "I'm a Communist, You Idiot!" t-shirts for the proletariat-friendly price of 20 pounds. Reminds me of Jay-Z selling Occupy Wall St.-branded shirts, as if he would ever want to live in a world run by Zuccotti Park protestors.

Tom

...one should always begin and end the day with a grateful heart.

Preferably someone else's. Ba DUM Tissss....

Sam

RE Westworld, I have to disagree with the distinguished Mr Ream. Strap in for season 2 because it's a trainwreck. They're clearly making it up as they go along and there's no real protagonist since all characters - robot and human - are murderous garbage. Plus the whole "why don't they just use a helicopter" plot hole is getting distractingly large.

Daniel Ream

The only thing they have in common is state control of the economy.

I utterly despise people who think common ownership is an acceptable way to run an economy, but that doesn't mean that everyone who does so is basically the same. There's no monolithic "Communism"

The porcupine knows one big thing.

com·mu·nism
ˈkämyəˌnizəm
noun
a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.

Daniel Ream

They're clearly making it up as they go along and there's no real protagonist since all characters - robot and human - are murderous garbage.

That's not what "protagonist" means. There are certainly no heroes, but there's absolutely a protagonist. It's Ford or Bernard, depending on exactly which definition of protagonist you're using. And I disagree that they're making it up as they go; there was too much foreshadowing in first season.

Plus the whole "why don't they just use a helicopter" plot hole is getting distractingly large.

[minor spoiler]
They don't use a helicopter because, as has now been revealed, the park isn't all that large, helicopters make a lot of noise, and if you're trying to enjoy the ambience of the post-Civil War American Midwest that whup-whup-whup sound will really ruin the immersion.

If you don't think that's a good enough reason for corporate to decide not to have them on site, you've never worked at a theme park.

Sam

That's not what "protagonist" means.

Fair enough, but there's nobody to root for IMO. And the central question of "are they alive or just robots" is clear cut to me (robots), so Bernard is the only one who comes close to being likable.

And though I've not seen the very last episode I never got the sense that the park is anything but gigantic, at LEAST as large as the Disney property. It's possible I dozed off during that reveal.

The "helicopter problem" is shorthand for the major plot hole surrounding technology in the show. One one hand it's such an advanced society that, eg they can create lifelike robots, terraform in weeks, curate EVERY BLADE OF GRASS etc...yet a little drone with a gun is beyond comprehension? You're saying the events of season 2 DON'T warrant corporate sending something more effective than a dune buggy? Aren't we well past "let's not bother the guests with whup-whup-whup" at this point?! Sorry, for a show who's premise is centered around tech advancement I can't let that go.

[+]

This:

https://usa.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/why-does-teen-vogue-applaud-when-ash-sarkar-says-shes-literally-a-communist/

David

This:

In a saner world, declaring oneself “literally a communist” would result in the kind of opprobrium currently enjoyed by people who kick dogs for fun.

jabrwok

nobody claims Real Fascism has never been tried.

Well the argument can be made that it hasn't. The two big tries were short-circuited via invasion by the Allies after all.

China seems to be making a go of it now though.

Daniel Ream

Fair enough, but there's nobody to root for IMO.

I don't think there's supposed to be. This isn't a space opera or a superhero movie; it's fairly old school hard SF in the Asimovian mode.

And the central question of "are they alive or just robots" is clear cut to me (robots)

The question isn't whether they're alive; it's whether they're human. And that's not at all clear cut. You may have a strong opinion on that question, but the answer isn't universally acclaimed and that's what they're exploring.

And though I've not seen the very last episode I never got the sense that the park is anything but gigantic, at LEAST as large as the Disney property.

I'm trying very hard not to give away any spoilers here, but based on what was explicitly shown on screen in season one, Westworld is ten times the size of Walt Disney World (500 sq. mi to WDW's 47 sq.mi). That makes it...25 miles across. It's not even worth the time to do a preflight check to fly that short a distance.

yet a little drone with a gun is beyond comprehension?

The genre Westworld is part of is entirely about technology getting away from its inventors in ways they couldn't or didn't predict. If you go back and watch Jurassic Park the script makes it clear that the park designers covered all the predictable bases - it took a confluence of black swan events to cause the catastrophe. In both Westworld and Jurassic park, the primary problem is internal sabotage. If the person you've trusted to build your entire attraction suddenly decides to burn it all down in pursuit of a decades-long hidden agenda, there's very little you can do to safeguard against that.

You're saying the events of season 2 DON'T warrant corporate sending something more effective than a dune buggy?

I'm saying the events of season two make it clear that corporate has no idea what's going on, the park is extremely isolated, communications have been cut off, and the internal command structure was neutralized early on. Corporate is doing what makes sense given what they know about the situation. A friend of mine programs microcontrollers for factory robots, which in theory could be programmed to go berserk and start murdering people. But that's not a failure case they consider or plan for, and if head office heard that was happening they wouldn't respond by clusterbombing the factory.

Civil aviation helicopters have a range of about 250 miles. There and back again means the park can't be more than 125 miles from an airfield (less, if you assume they want to use the helicopter to do anything once it gets there).

Farnsworth M Muldoon

...that whup-whup-whup sound will really ruin the immersion.

That raises the question of why damn near every time they have to use a sound effect for a helicopter, they use a Huey ? Sure it is an iconic sound, but the only thing that sounds like a Huey is either a Huey or a Cobra (depending on the main rotor blades on the later, and not the four blade variants of either).

jabrwok

The question isn't whether they're alive; it's whether they're human.

Do they have human DNA? If so, human, if not, not. Now they might be *people* depending on their degrees of self-awareness, but absent the correct biology, they can't be *human* people.

"Alive" is yet another issue. What kind of self-repair mechanisms do they have? Can they reproduce without any significant infrastructure to assist them in doing so? Can they derive their operational energy and material needs directly from their environments, or do they require an elaborate civilization for that purpose? Etc, etc.

ftumch

via Old Holborn

"Amazon Studios is to produce a big-budget series based on Swedish artist's Simon Stålenhag's work set in an alternative version of rural Sweden where science has taken over."

https://www.thelocal.se/20180718/amazon-to-make-big-budget-tv-show-based-on-swedish-artists-hit-dystopian-books

Sam

Westworld:

They're automatons - not human, not alive, not sentient. Yes, the show is exploring that but IMO to no avail - they're only as "human" as the magical programming (this show is as much fantasy as "hard SF") allows. No doubt it's an interesting question asked by many SF works but I can't get engaged with how WW is asking it. To each their own.

And calling BS on the explanations for the complete lack of military technology, sound strategy, or tactics. The sabotage does explain some of the incompetence but the show uses intelligent people acting outright stupidly as plot devices. It's a dumb and annoying crutch at this point. There's only so many times supposedly crack mercenaries get out of their dune buggies and walk slowly up to the enemy while firing until my suspension of disbelief is totally broken. If this isn't a space opera they should leave out the stormtroopers.

Anyway, I'm glad you like the show - it's just all stylish, pretensious guff for me.

David

To each their own.

You’re all being terribly reasonable about this. Though based on the above, I still don’t know whether to commit to season two. I think you’ll have to decide the matter by flicking peanuts at each other.

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