David Thompson
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December 11, 2018

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Clam

Abusers thrive in radical communities… A cultural fetishization of violence provides cover for violent and unstable people.

Well, duh.

Alice

"Chosen family".

David

Well, duh.

We can, perhaps, cut 18-year-olds a little slack for being credulous and unworldly, but it is odd how far into these things someone can fall before realising what it is they’re participating in. I mean, you’d think that interacting frequently with unpleasant people would undermine any illusions fairly quickly. Unless, of course, the trade-off is a supply of victims.

I don’t think I was a particularly cynical or worldly teenager, but I do recall being suspicious of such groups and intuiting, albeit vaguely, that their purported radicalism was actually quite creepy, psychologically, and best avoided. As you can probably guess, my opinions haven’t softened in the intervening years.

Y. Knott

This is a stock-in-trade of radical-Islam recruiters as well.

Sam Duncan

“Abusers thrive in radical communities because radical norms are fragile and exploitable.”

No shit?

David

Abusers thrive in radical communities…

As noted here before, and by Tim Newman and others, the above may explain Laurie Penny’s sour and outlandish view of men, which doesn’t remotely describe any of the men I know, or the kind of men that any of the women I know would choose to associate with. In short, if you play the cartoon radical and hang out almost exclusively with other cartoon radicals, you will run into a remarkable number of misfits, abusers and creeps.

John Square

They attract hurt people, [...] and the surplus of vulnerable people attracts sadists and abusers ready to exploit them. The only gate-keeping that goes on in radical communities is that of language and passion—if you can rail against capitalism in woke language, you’re in…

Tim Newman has made exactly this point, in relation to Laurie Penny, but also in relation to the way feminism exposes women to more damage than the traditional social structures it seeks to replace.

Despite the fact Newman is now working in HR, he still gets the reality of the intersection between leftist politics, feminism and the damage it does to women brilliantly.

David

Newman is now working in HR,

He is? Does he know?

Jonathan

No worldview maps reality perfectly. But when a worldview encounters discordant knowledge, it can either evolve to accommodate it, or it can treat it as a threat to the worldview’s integrity.

As Richard Feynman said:

" If your theory doesn't match the real-world data, your theory is wrong."

Y. Knott

Newman is now working in HR,

He is? Does he know?

- Well if he doesn't show-up for work ONE MORE morning, he's fired!!!

WTP

Well, duh.

We can, perhaps, cut 18-year-olds a little slack for being credulous and unworldly, but it is odd how far into these things someone can fall before realising what it is they’re participating in.
Yet show me where the MSM has ever done serious investigative reporting on such things. Show me one undergrad level “sociology” class where this sort of thing is covered. Aside from being raised properly, and it is quite clear that there is less and less of that going on, how would an 18 year old, with all the weaknesses that go with such, figure this out for themselves? Especially when every cultural clue to betterment of oneself and society points to radicalization.

Adam

“Newman is working in HR.”

If he’s not there, that proves it.

Being out of the office or traveling out of town are the quantum states of “HR professionals”.

David

how would an 18 year old, with all the weaknesses that go with such, figure this out for themselves?

Fair point, and my own example, above, involves a climate and time less uniformly doctrinaire. But it wasn’t so much the politics that repelled me – I wasn’t a political teenager and didn’t much care about the issues and shibboleths they mouthed. It was more a case of seeing their, shall we say, unhappy personalities. The repulsion was instinctive, almost visceral.

[ Added: ]

Even as a know-nothing gay teenager, I remember noting that their intimate relationships were rather unusual and entangled, and it wasn’t clear from one month to another who was sleeping with whom. But when visiting their collective house, there was an atmosphere of complication, for want of a better term, and despite their supposedly liberatory radical noises, which they made pointedly and often, none of them seemed to be happy.

PiperPaul

"Yet show me where the MSM has ever done serious investigative reporting on such things."

It's almost as if they enjoy and profit from the abuse and resulting "newsworthy" spectacles such things cause...

Tim Newman

He is? Does he know?

For clarity, I'm a student, studying an MBA with a major in HR management. My aim is to help small or medium sized companies grow while avoiding the pitfalls of lunatic feminist policies, and providing some much-needed HR competence.

Pogonip

What is tabling zines?

David

What is tabling zines?

Organising or distributing ‘anarchist’ magazines and other shoddy pamphlets. Sometimes by selling them, literally, on a table.

David

My aim is to help small or medium sized companies grow while avoiding the pitfalls of lunatic feminist policies, and providing some much-needed HR competence.

You’ll be chased out of the village.

Damian

But it wasn’t so much the politics that repelled me – I wasn’t a political teenager and didn’t much care about the issues and shibboleths they mouthed. It was more a case of seeing their, shall we say, unhappy personalities. The repulsion was instinctive, almost visceral.

Perhaps it's just that the first step to becoming an alienated intellectual/radical is learning to disbelieve your lying eyes. All of us are prone to rationalization, of course, but it seems to me that the basic formula for an alienated worldview is counterintuitive rationalization — "These things which appear to be alike are actually completely different," and "These things which appear to be different are actually identical."

Ordinary people convince themselves to believe, say, a new diet in a supermarket tabloid that promises the ability to lose weight while eating ice cream in bed. Alienated intellectuals, who would scoff at such pedestrian delusions, convince themselves that being furious and miserable and treating other people callously is the counterintuitive path to a world where no one is ever furious or miserable again. To see things straightforwardly and describe them as such is to appear naive and unsophisticated, and nothing could be more fatal to the aspirations of a "critical" thinker. Like the sarcastic Nirvana lyric, "I'm too busy acting like I'm not naive/I've seen it all, I was here first."

Flubber

As Richard Feynman said:

" If your theory doesn't match the real-world data, your theory is wrong."

Otherwise known as the Global Warbling BS...

Patrick Brown

Radical SJW groups remind me of the period of my youth I spent as a "happy-clappy" evangelical Christian, only more so. The things I hated about organised Christianity - the self-righteous viciousness and spite, the self-flagellation, the endless hunt for more and more trivial and unavoidable sins to condemn others for or ostentatiously repent of, the whited sepulchre scumbags who take advantage of other believers' faith for financial, sexual and other advantage - are all far worse among SJWs than they ever were at church. There were a few Christians I knew who thought what they believed was self-evident to anybody, and the only reason anyone could fail to believe it was intentional badness, but most knew they were a bit weird and were a bit self-conscious about it.

In the end, it took me a while between privately concluding there was no God and no longer calling myself a Christian, mostly because church was pretty much my entire social life. The decent ones stayed friends with me, and I hadn't been such a horrible Christian that I had alienated the non-Christian people I knew. SJWs are even worse at cutting themselves off from wrong-thinkers, much nastier to people they don't agree with, and they put even more of their self-image into their beliefs. Can you imagine being someone like Laurie Penny or Steve Shives, and starting to suspect that the beliefs you have hitherto advocated might be wrong? What options do you have? If you change your position publicly, your fellow SJWs will hate you forever, and the people you now agree with won't trust you because you've been so horrible to them.

Sam

Quilette has had an, shall we say, eclectic mix lately. I had some fun with someone's harrumphing that Sabrina the Teenage Witch gives Satanist a bad name.

a different James

Yet show me where the MSM has ever done serious investigative reporting on such things. Show me one undergrad level “sociology” class where this sort of thing is covered

Sociology? My experience of sociology students and lecturers is that they provide the ideological training for leftist cults

Jen

Having somebody yell at me that if I didn’t admit to being a white supremacist her friends might beat me up, and that I should pay her for her emotional labour, was too much for my ideology to spin.

He could have saved a lot of time by reading David's blog.

Daniel Ream

You’ll be chased out of the village.

That. Tim's been lucky in that he's been working in a field and a region where Getting Things Done is prioritized over mindless compliance with stifling politically correct bureaucracy. I suspect he has no firsthand knowledge of how much of a stranglehold modern HR has on the C-suite in North America. They're the contemporary equivalent of Soviet Russia's political commissars, and for the same reason: they're not the enforcement arm of the C-suite, they're the enforcement arm of the state, in the form of endless "hostile environment" and "discrimination" lawsuits.

Still, it's his go and the resultant blogging is interesting reading.

David

He could have saved a lot of time by reading David’s blog.

I’m here most days, and cheap.

R. Sherman

I’m here most days, and cheap.

But not easy, you should hasten to add.

Spiny Norman
The only gate-keeping that goes on in radical communities is that of language and passion—if you can rail against capitalism in woke language, you’re in…

Listen, if you'd really want to join the PFJ, you'd really have to hate the Romans.

I do!

Oh really? How much?

A lot!

Right, you're in.

David

But not easy, you should hasten to add.

Rather depends who you ask, I suppose.

Excuse me while I lick my own eyebrows.

Daniel Ream

It was more a case of seeing their, shall we say, unhappy personalities.

The damaged people in these group aren't damaged because something just dropped out of the sky on them one day; they've been damaged by their home life as children, and possibly abuse. They literally don't know what happy looks like, and so have no idea how to seek it out or maintain it they luck into it. For many, the adrenaline/dopamine rush of constant conflict and self-righteous mobbing is the closest thing they'll ever get.

Y. Knott

My experience of sociology students and lecturers is that they provide the ideological training for leftist cults

The joke is told - the Head of the university budget department is raking the Head of the Chemistry Faculty over the coals. "Your Faculty is costing us a FORTUNE! All these chemicals, and PRECURSORS, whatever they are - and all the lab equipment you break every year! Are your students all clumsy putzes who have to keep breaking things all the time?"

She goes-on; "Why can't you be like the Math Faculty? - all they ever need are paper, pencils and erasers! Or the PHILOSOPHY Faculty - THEY don't even need erasers!"

I may have swiped that joke off this site, come to think of it...

Jeff Mauney

"I was 18, depressed, anxious"

Spiking your coffee with vodka will do that.

Hopp Singg

Tim Newman,

What are the words to avoid and the words to use in an initial job ad that will best repel sjw's and other narcissists?

I mean, I can imagine that words like "exciting" and "high-profile" would attract them, and that words like "stolid" and "reliable" would repel, but that all seems too easy. Is there anything better?

Governor Squid

Is there anything better?

I'd start with "responsibility" and "accountability," and maybe throw in a bit of "tangible accomplishments" or "performance measures" if necessary.

[+]

"I was 18, depressed, anxious"

Spiking your coffee with vodka will do that.

Getting into fights with police so you get pepper sprayed and arrested will do that.
Leaving your family for a 'radical community' cult will do that.

David

Getting into fights with police so you get pepper sprayed and arrested will do that.

Yes, quite. If you’re feeling anxious and depressed, surrounding yourself with borderline personalities and getting involved in violent protests isn’t an obvious or ideal solution. But as we saw a few days ago, unstable people are often drawn to the kinds of activities and social groups that practically guarantee further deterioration.

Pogonip

Hopp Sing, try “multi-tasking,” a term well known to indicate a shitty job. The SJWs won’t apply. Of course, no one else will either. Hmmm. Maybe concentrate on phrases like “reason,” “facts,” “logic”?

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Is there anything better?

Punctuality, monthly performance reviews, mandatory overtime, some manual labor involved (OK, it is changing the copier paper, but the ream isn't going to lift itself).

Pogonip

Attention to detail? Self-starter? Familiarity with [some machine besides a computer] helpful? Business attire? CCW license helpful? Statistics?

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Business attire and strict grooming standards mandatory.

Sam

SJWs apply to real jobs? I thought that's what Starbucks, NGOs, and HR departments were for.

Hal

What is tabling zines?

Organising or distributing ‘anarchist’ magazines and other shoddy pamphlets

Specifically . . .

. . . and from there, the merchandise isn't going to float in midair by itself, so get a table to put things on and thus do the tabling . . .

Hopp Singg

What about dress codes? Do you (guys, all, whatever) think "conservative dress code" might help?

Or maybe "Perks include free company membership at the local gun club"...?

Hopp Singg

Business attire and strict grooming standards mandatory.

Oops, I shouldda refreshed before asking about dress codes, Farnsworth. I see you'd already covered it!

Farnsworth M Muldoon

I see you'd already covered it!

No worries - Biannual weigh in and physical fitness test.

Hal

Perhaps it's just that the first step to becoming an alienated intellectual/radical is learning to disbelieve your lying eyes.

My experience is of watching a good deal of someone actually knowing which end is up, but as that is not what is wanted, instead demanding that all---and especially that someone---must ignore that knowledge.

. . . a new diet in a supermarket tabloid that promises the ability to lose weight while eating ice cream in bed. . . . .

. . . which gets handled as I want ice cream, and I'm going to have it, and everything else is irrelevant. . . . the bit about diet might get used as a different set of denials.

. . . Alienated intellectuals, who would scoff at such pedestrian delusions, convince themselves that being furious and miserable and treating other people callously is the counterintuitive path to a world where no one is ever furious or miserable again.

. . . . which I keep seeing as simply demanding to be seen as the center of everything, and when that never occurs, thus follows the ongoing tantrum.

aelfheld
"I was 18, depressed, anxious"

Spiking your coffee with vodka will do that.

That's why you should use whisky.

Pogonip

Free range membership?

Pick me! Pick me! I am woefully out of practice.

Nate Whilk

The left hasn't changed much from Orwell's day. From "The Road to Wigan Pier":

'One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words "Socialism" and "Communism" draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, "Nature Cure" quack, pacifist, and feminist in England.'

Ten

And now it's time for us to all get this now:

An Illinois Gender & Women's Studies department endorsed a call for the abolition of both ICE and the police.

The University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign’s (UIUC) Gender & Women's Studies department shared this demand from a nine-point platform created by the National Trans Youth Council’s nine-point platform, prefacing the Facebook post with “something to believe in.”

We call for the abolition of the police, ICE, borders, and the judicial system,” the NTYC platform reads.

When you believe in nothing and anything at the same time it's probably natural that Anarchy is Something To Believe In.

https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=11622

WTP

K...So I’ve taken the liberty to create a GoFundMe to purchase a trebuchet for the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. It was surprisingly easy to do. Please give generously. Link:

gofundme.com/trebuchet-for-university-of-illinois-uc

Chester Draws

I think that "old fashioned" or "traditional" in the ad will probably work, pretty much regardless of where it is placed.

Old fashioned attention to detail. Old fashioned work ethic. Traditional dress code.

It's not that SJW's can't work hard or dress well -- and they have values for Africa. What they don't like is to be seen to be old-fashioned or traditional -- it's literally the opposite of what they want. They'll recognise it as code for "you won't fit in here".

Bill de Haan

which doesn’t remotely describe any of the men I know, or the kind of men that any of the women I know would choose to associate with

This is a key factor in their worldview.

Normally, when I see raging protesters screaming about things, they are usually describing actions of people which seem like absurd caricatures, and yet to them, they are perfectly normal.

I remember one such protest where the crowd was complaining about everything, and chanting ever leftist trope there was, including "Zionism is Nazism". Meanwhile, six rows over were skinheads, with swastika tattoos demanding the deaths of all Jews. When asked about the inconsistency, one of the organizers very casually said that, well, of course you're always going to have some Nazis show up when you have 50 people protesting, that's inevitable, after all.

And yet Donald Trump can have rallies with tens of thousands of people, without a swastika in sight, but he's a Nazi because he raised his hand in a salute, like Hitler did. But actual, Mein Kamp quoting, swastika wearing skinheads were chanting for the extermination of all Jews, and it just got brushed aside as an annoyance.

When your peer group is such that you not only can't get a group together without Nazis showing up, but that they don't even to stand out, you may want to consider getting a new peer group.

Which it appears Mr. Barnes has done. Expect virulent condemnation from his former associates momentarily.

TimT

I love zines and have been, on and off, involved in the world of zine and zine making for some decades now. And even at the earliest zine markets I've gone to - full of the most amazing and eclectic diversity of publications you can imagine - one marked feature of the markets were the few tables of anarchists and socialists, sitting amongst all the rest. And their publications were all so samey, so predictably ideological, that you really had to wonder what exactly qualified them to be there.

Quite often they'd be waving around newspapers from old-time printing presses - it was a bit like they were straight out of the 1930s in this respect, especially when you could compare them to others at the same zine fair, who would have zines that they'd stitched together themselves, or run off on photocopiers at the last minute, or folded them like origami animals to give them pages. I suppose in their devotion to old technology they were somewhat charmingly anachronistic. In their devotion to old politics, old grudges, old failed economic systems, and old tyrannical forms of government, they were far less charming.

Janet

Ordinary people convince themselves to believe, say, a new diet in a supermarket tabloid that promises the ability to lose weight while eating ice cream in bed. Alienated intellectuals, who would scoff at such pedestrian delusions, convince themselves that being furious and miserable and treating other people callously is the counterintuitive path to a world where no one is ever furious or miserable again.

It's like they believe in homeopathy, but only for the social sciences.

Rafi

if you’re feeling anxious and depressed, it may not be entirely wise to join a “radical community”… Especially when… the stated aim of the “radical community” is to “destroy society because it cannot be redeemed by its own means.”

When you put it like that…

Ray

Patrick Brown

In the end, it took me a while between privately concluding there was no God and no longer calling myself a Christian

I was raised a Christian and similarly rebelled. Then one day I had a flash of inspiration, or possibly a revelation, which was simply this: God does not belong to the church, the church belongs to God. From which I concluded that if I wished to see the beard in the sky as an elderly relative with my best interests at heart I was entirely at liberty to do so. Since then we've got on just fine. If others want to see Him as standing there with a stick waiting for a microsin to be committed that's their problem.

David

When you put it like that…

Well, you have to wonder exactly how many warning signs – big, red, flashing ones – had to be ignored before the obvious pathologies were registered. Whatever the ideological excuses and convolutions, you’d think there would come a point at which you’d say, “Why the hell am I surrounded by these fucking awful people…?”

But again, vanity is a powerful drug. And would-be radicals are particularly susceptible.

Hal

I suppose in their devotion to old technology they were somewhat charmingly anachronistic. In their devotion to old politics, old grudges, old failed economic systems, and old tyrannical forms of government, they were far less charming.

Still amusing . . . .

dw

When I became an anarchist, I was 18, depressed, anxious, and ready to save the world.

Pro Tip: Sort yourself out first.

David

Ordinary people convince themselves to believe, say, a new diet in a supermarket tabloid that promises the ability to lose weight while eating ice cream in bed. Alienated intellectuals, who would scoff at such pedestrian delusions, convince themselves that being furious and miserable and treating other people callously is the counterintuitive path to a world where no one is ever furious or miserable again.

Some people really want a license to be malevolent and will perform almost any contortion to that end.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Which is to say...

If you surround yourself with clowns, don't be surprised if a circus breaks out.

Boatswain's Mate

Quote from the article:

[I]Morality and politics are intertwined in this system so that good politics become indicative of good morality. Montgomery and Bergman skewer this tendency mercilessly: “To remain pious, the priest must reveal new sins … The new Other is the not-radical-enough, the liberal, the perpetrator, the oppressor.” Because one’s good moral standing can never be guaranteed, the best way to maintain it is to attack the moral standing of others.[/I]

A positional good. Much like the materialistic, upwardly mobile status-seekers, once a critical mass of people obtain (or attain) the positional good such that it becomes banal and (shudder) [I]common[/I], a new good must be found (or, in the case of radical SJWs, invented or imagined) to set them apart on a higher plane from the vulgar (in the classical sense) hoi polloi.

"The [I] progressive stack[/I]? Nobody talks about [I]that[/I] anymore. [I]Now[/I], we implement what's called (insert some word-salad, jargon-filled gibberish name)." (Left unspoken because it's so obviously self-evident, "See? I'm so much more woke than you.")

Boatswain's Mate

Dadgummit. Used [ instead of <. I need more coffee, clearly.

David

A positional good.

Absolutely.

Governor Squid

A positional good.

Was recently having a conversation with a younger cow-orker on this very topic. I observed that in the Bad Old Days, the yuppie types were notorious for conspicuous consumption, purchasing some extravagance and leaving the cartons by the garage for at least a week, so that the neighbors could see how successful they were. The really desperate would just find some empty cartons so that they could pretend to have the material success of their neighbors.

Today, that same motivation causes people to fill their front yards and windows with every manner of sign and banner: rainbow flags, BLM placards, "All Are Welcome Here" yard signs, etc. I suppose the signs today are an improvement in that they're not likely to bankrupt one's household, but it still irks me that none of these clowns can see their conspicuous virtue signalling for what it really is. In reality, it's just the new generation's version of empty cartons meant to mark them as more "successful" than those around them.

I'd pity them, if they weren't so busy trying to complicate my life.

Darleen

Well, to be fair, the Left wants all conservatives to shut the fuck up.

Pogonip

Language alert—but it’s worth it, very funny:

https://spectator.us/welcome-back-titania-mcgrath/

Ten

Well, to be fair, the Left wants all conservatives to shut the fuck up.

And to be fairer, The Concourse is the Hustler of political rags. For vituperative bitches. And journo Lurid Seething, or whatever it's name is- uh nevermind.

David

Well, to be fair, the Left wants all conservatives to shut the fuck up.

Is it me, or do all of these creatures write with the same tone?

R. Sherman

I observed that in the Bad Old Days, the yuppie types were notorious for conspicuous consumption...

Ah, the glory days. Like when I showed up at my office as a young associate carrying a gold plated cigarette case with integrated lighter. Then the senior partner noted, "My, isn't that ostentatious."

Thus endeth my flirtation with yuppie-dom, as I concentrated on earning money for the bigwigs.

David

a gold plated cigarette case with integrated lighter.

Blimey. Do you work for British Intelligence?

R. Sherman

The saddest thing was, of course, I only got about two days of practicing that slightly cocked head, wry expression "My name is 'Shermsn...R. Sherman'", before I was disabused of my sophistication.

Still trying to find it. Commenting here hasn't seemed to work . . . yet.

Ten

Language alert—but it’s worth it, very funny:

https://spectator.us/welcome-back-titania-mcgrath/

Knowing its satire you BEG that it's satire.

R. Sherman

Blimey. Do you work for British Intelligence?

I'd stuff the thing with Marlboro Lights, but I left a Dunhill box lying around to fool the peasants.

Hal

a gold plated cigarette case with integrated lighter.

Blimey. Do you work for British Intelligence?

Well, there was the with the gold plated lighter, but he wasn't OHMSS . . . .

Daniel Ream

cow-orker

I sense another veteran of alt.sysadmin.recovery.

Richard

"if you play the cartoon radical and hang out almost exclusively with other cartoon radicals, you will run into a remarkable number of misfits and creeps."

If someone chooses to hang out almost exclusively with misfits and/or creeps, they probably are one.

Mags

Having somebody yell at me that if I didn’t admit to being a white supremacist her friends might beat me up, and that I should pay her for her emotional labour, was too much for my ideology to spin.

'You should pay me for calling you names and threatening you'.

#wokeprivilege

The original Mr. X

When I became an anarchist, I... protested against student tuition, prison privatisation

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the incongruity of a self-described anarchist wanting the government to keep doing stuff.

PiperPaul

"incongruity of a self-described anarchist wanting the government to keep doing stuff"

But it's to be "safe" anarchy, supported by Luxury Communism. Sheesh.

Pogonip

You know, the more I see of our Brave New World, the more I’m convinced that the Boring Old World was better designed to keep overall order. For instance:

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2019/01/shame-storm

Had Todd known that his revenge would have probably resulted in a sound beating from the author’s husband, father, brother or brothers, or all of the above, he might have been less likely to launch the video that drove her from the U. S. to Australia. Heck, even a slander suit might have given him pause (though not as much as the likelihood of being unable to engage in further tirades because it’s hard to get a good tirade going when your jaw is shattered). Of course, under the new system, the family men would have been jailed. Under the old system, they’d have been excused under the informal, but very real, he-needed-beatin clause.

Do you realize that if we the people can revive the old system, social media might go away? We’re sitting on dynamite here!

bobby b

"What are the words to avoid and the words to use in an initial job ad that will best repel sjw's and other narcissists?"

Anything that includes the words "merit-based." It infuriates them.

pst314

Anything that includes the words "merit-based." It infuriates them.

Although sometimes they use "merit-based" to mean "has the right skin color".

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