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January 15, 2019

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Mags

Women should just let themselves be mugged. For social justice!

David

Women should just let themselves be mugged. For social justice!

It’s an odd moral calculus, and quite telling. I’m tempted to wonder if Mr Ford’s mugger-friendly philosophy extends to other violent crimes against women.

Joan

If she had let him rob her, even at gunpoint, both likely would have survived

Pro tip, Zack: We don't care if the muggers survive.

Richard Cranium

You know, it's rather odd.

Most people use a portion of the finite number of hours that they are alive to earn money. Stealing from them is effectively stealing those hours of life as well.

Lord of the Fleas

If she had let him rob her, even at gunpoint, both likely would have survived...

The key word here, certainly in her case, is "likely".

David

Also this.

David

If you read the news item and watch the video, linked above, it’s worth noting how Mr Ford’s fretting contrasts somewhat with the views of locals who were interviewed following the events.

And in news that will surprise no-one, the mugger in question was not unknown to the police. Which, given rates of recidivism and the fact that muggers are almost never caught on a first offence, raises the question of exactly how many assaults and armed muggings of women, or worse, this creature’s life was worth.

MikeM_inMD

What if he didn't stop at robbery? Should she have let him rape her? Should she have let him kidnap her? Should she have let him imprison and enslave her for as long as he liked? Should she have let him kill her?

Sam Duncan

How does that old saying go? “Gun control is the belief that a woman bleeding to death in the gutter is morally superior to one carrying a firearm”.

“The punishment for armed robbery is not death”

It isn't the penalty for jaywalking either, but you can still find yourself under a bus.

aelfheld
What if he didn't stop at robbery? Should she have let him rape her? Should she have let him kidnap her? Should she have let him imprison and enslave her for as long as he liked? Should she have let him kill her?

Zack Ford is not upset at these alternatives.

Sam Duncan

“Also this.”

And this, in reply:

“If you’re not a victim, you’re of no political use to them.”

Steve E

If she had let him rob her, even at gunpoint, both likely would have survived...

...and if the robber hadn't fled the scene after being shot he likely would have survived. There that's an easy game to play sitting in my comfy chair.

David

If anyone has trouble with comments not appearing, email me and I’ll jiggle the spam filter.

Fred the Fourth

Isn't feminism and sjw all about equality? /s
"God made men (And women). Sam Colt made them equal."

David

“If you’re not a victim, you’re of no political use to them.”

This seems relevant:

Quite a few Guardianistas seem to base their moral calculus on vanity – on wanting to be seen caring (or pretending to care) for the latest, most exciting (or contrived) victim group, as defined by them. An effect of which is to shift empathy (or pretend empathy) from the working-class victim of crime and social disorder to the working-class thug or criminal, on grounds that the criminal is in some way being oppressed and, unlike their neighbours, being made to misbehave.

Imagine for a minute that you’re a Guardian columnist. It could be Zoe Williams, for instance, who rails against the word “chav” and thinks that people who live in the rougher parts of town shouldn’t have a word to describe those whose behaviour lowers the tone or makes their lives a misery. Say, by playing loud music at 3am or throwing pets from a tenth-floor window. The same Ms Williams who wants us to believe that the problem with ‘problem families’ is simply that they’re poor, and nothing whatsoever to do with how they abuse their equally poor neighbours…

Now picture the scenario. If Mrs Wilson’s life is being made hell by her equally poor but much more troubled neighbour – the one whose fatherless children run riot, who blasts out loud music at 3am and whose pets fall from the sky – who are you going to pick as most in need of your solidarity and compassion? Remember, your peers may be watching. Mrs Wilson is just an old dear who scrapes by without much fuss or need of social workers. Her troubles aren’t self-inflicted and are therefore rather dull. She may even, God forgive her, vote Conservative.

From the viewpoint of the devout Guardianista, there are more Bogus Compassion Points to be scored by picking the household with all the exciting and intractable problems, all those lovely pathologies, any number of which can, with squinting, be blamed on capitalism or Conservative governments. And so, like Zoe, you rush to their defence - rhetorically, of course – excusing their behaviour, insisting they stay put and be indulged in some way, with little if any thought for Mrs Wilson and the nightmare she puts up with.

There is, I think, a pattern.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

The key word here, certainly in her case, is "likely".

Zack Ford @ZackFord 3. My tweet also ignored the context that this took place in a neighborhood with high rates of violence. That's an experience I don't have and shouldn't speak to. For that I also apologize.

IOW, Zack had zero clues what he was talking about (a shock, I know), and regarding the mugee, "likely" means "probably wouldn't have".

Butthead

Wait, now I'm confused. Are we for, or against, toxic masculinity this week?

It's so difficult to keep up.

WTP

What if he didn't stop at robbery? Should she have let him rape her? Should she have let him kidnap her? Should she have let him imprison and enslave her for as long as he liked? Should she have let him kill her?

Isn’t this effectively what the old Cold War leftist intellectual logic “Better Red than dead” was really about? Gotta give Ford props for consistency.

Baceseras

And still progressives will tell us "property is theft," like that's a bad thing.

Pst314

The Punishment for being Zack Ford ought to be a tenner in a nice progressive gulag. Poetic justice for an SJW, donchaknow.

Alice

Pro tip, Zack: We don't care if the muggers survive.

That.

Alice

the mugger in question was not unknown to the police. Which, given rates of recidivism and the fact that muggers are almost never caught on a first offence, raises the question of exactly how many assaults and armed muggings of women, or worse, this creature’s life was worth.

Zero.

Pst314

Looks like Zack has deleted his entire Twitter history.

Pst314

“Zero”.
Yes indeed.
And given that Zack values the life of a vicious thug over those of his victims, and agitates on behalf of the thugs, well, I would emphatically maintain that his is also worth zero.

pacificus

Mugger's lives matter! Probably doing the work Americans just won't do.

The Phantom

Anybody remember Faisal Hussein?

https://phantomsoapbox.blogspot.com/2018/07/toronto-danforth-shooter-wednesday.html

Somebody should ask Zack Ford how many people he's willing to sacrifice for his precious principles. He should break it down by men, women, children and specify which minorities they come from.

Hopp Singg

Let's all take turns giving Zack a bionic wedgie. He can't resist it.

Governor Squid

Stealing from them is effectively stealing those hours of life as well.

Now you sound like the Six-Fingered Man. "Please, tell me how you feel. And be honest -- this is for posterity."

Pogonip

Is the lady with the gun guilty of toxic femininity?

pst314

And now Zack's Twitter page is back, but with all content after 4 Oct 2017 deleted in an Orwellian airbrushing of his past.

pst314

Oops, no, that's a pinned tweet from 2017.

Forbes

Let's all take turns giving Zack a bionic wedgie. He can't resist it.

Zack would likely enjoy that. I was thinking waterboarding instead...

Steve E

Anybody remember Faisal Hussein?

Phantom, he's back in the news today.

pst314

Zack Ford seems to have a history of creatively dishonest "journalism"
https://medium.com/@jesse.singal/a-response-to-zack-fords-dishonest-thinkprogress-article-atlantic-cover-story-is-a-loud-dog-1bb36b4f6aad

via:
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/379203.php

ACTOldFart

In Australian slang, "zack" is the old fashioned term for sixpence. I think this guy is worth every penny of it.

David

Pro tip, Zack: We don’t care if the muggers survive.

To recap. According to Mr Ford, our “proud SJW,” the lone woman being attacked at a bus stop on her way to work shouldn’t have defended herself - because, we’re told, “If she had let him rob her, even at gunpoint, both likely would have survived.” And apparently, the well-being of the mugger – who was mugging while on probation - trumps any desire for self-defence, even if the victim fears for her life. At which point, I think one has to ask an obvious question. In the case of the mugger, survived to do what? Continue mugging women, presumably.

“She should not have had a gun in the first place,” says Mr Ford, piously. “A gun death is a gun death.” Again, note the flattening of value, such that the lives and wellbeing of the law-abiding are reduced in importance until they barely equal those of the habitual violent criminal.

This, then, is woke morality. “Social justice.”

Patrick Brown

Zack's solution to the problem of gun crime: just do what they say and no-one will get hurt. Sounds like that would make for a pleasant society to live in.

David

Zack’s solution to the problem of gun crime: just do what they say and no-one will get hurt. Sounds like that would make for a pleasant society to live in.

Well, that’s the thing, I suppose. The contortions above were presented as righteous and compassionate, as some self-evident moral elevation; when in fact they suggest perversity, a pathological unrealism, and a casual contempt for the victims of crime. It rather throws into relief the priorities, or feigned priorities, of the type. And Mr Ford is very much of a type.

See also Zoe Williams, mentioned upthread.

David

Zack’s solution to the problem of gun crime: just do what they say and no-one will get hurt. Sounds like that would make for a pleasant society to live in.

Not entirely unrelated, this.

jabrwok

This, then, is woke morality.

"Morality". I don't think they have clue one as to what that word means, or what function it's supposed to serve. But then that's typical of the Left.

“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass

pst314

This, then, is woke morality

Which, in general, comes down to "be nice to evil people".
It has been noted before that much of leftist thinking can be explained as hatred of civilization and hatred of one's own people--oikophobia.

Pst314

Not entirely unrelated, this.

“Outside of the delinquent left, it’s hard to see gangs of predatory vermin...as particularly sympathetic or deserving of indulgence.”

Yes. Words like “vermin” should be used to describe these creatures.

David

Which, in general, comes down to “be nice to evil people”.

The reactions of many leftist commentators to the London riots of 2011, linked upthread, are quite revealing. According to Laurie Penny and China Miéville, we mustn’t refer to looters, arsonists and muggers as feral, even when they’re burning random people out of their homes and beating firefighters unconscious, as this would be terribly mean.

I kid you not.

As Theodore Dalrymple said in response to Mr Miéville, “Leniency toward criminals is not a form of sympathy for the poor, but a failure to take either their lives or their property seriously.”

Pst314

Yes indeed, David.
Laurie Penny said she has “no problem with principled, thought-through political ‘violence’ “.
One could point out to her that Pinochet’s violence was principled and thought-through, but she would not understand the point.

David

Yes indeed, David.

What struck me at the time was just how much their perverse, almost romantic commentary jarred with actual footage of the riots and thuggery – footage that was readily available, round the clock, and frequently horrifying. It was as if they were hallucinating some fantasy version of events.

jabrwok

It was as if they were hallucinating some fantasy version of events.

Reality is a Fascist plot to oppress women and minorities.

Dr Evil

Zack ford is obviously an utter wanker.

Squires

A gun death is a gun death.

This wasn’t a gun death. The gun survived.

I’m tempted to wonder if Mr Ford’s mugger-friendly philosophy extends to other violent crimes against women.

Well, it was a good socialist crime.

Other violent crimes by men against women add to statistics readily twisted to favor Marxoid narratives. That is excepting, of course, crimes committed by men in the country illegally, or who have emigrated to the corrupt West from the Lands of Peace; those are uncrimes that do not happen, being ideologically impossible.

David

those are uncrimes that do not happen, being ideologically impossible.

Heh. I may have to borrow that one.

Jen

A gun death is a gun death.

No, Zack. An innocent person matters a hell of a lot more than a lowlife mugger.

Spiny Norman

pst314,

via:

Ace's colorful and elaborate insults for our new friend Mr Ford are absolutely hilarious. =^D

Sam

What a willfully obtuse stance to take.

The punishment for robbery isn't death.

Oh. Is armed robbery the punishment for standing at a bus stop minding your business? No? Why, it's almost as if a logical, consistent, and fair punishment rubric decided upon and executed by a neutral 3rd party via the consent of the voters (aka the criminal justice system) HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH SELF-DEFENSE IN THE MOMENT.

I know these people HATE the police, but I imagine most of them would begrudgingly accept an officer shooting a robber who pointed a gun at them while attempting escape from State-designated "punishment for robbery". All the BLM idiots at least pretend that the gunned-down perps were acting passively, otherwise people - black, white, etc - would laugh them out of the room.

There's so much wrong with this take it's difficult to know where to start.

David

There’s so much wrong with this take it’s difficult to know where to start.

Mr Ford seemed determined to minimise the attack. It was quite perverse. Sadly, he deleted the tweets in question before I could screengrab them all. I remember he insisted on referring to the attacker as a “would-be mugger,” as if the crime were trivial or hypothetical, which seems a tad evasive. In that, if someone physically attacks you and tries to rob you, and you end up on the floor after having a gun pulled on you, I think you can say that you were mugged, by a mugger. The fact that the mugger didn’t get far with your belongings seems rather incidental, all things considered.

Pogonip

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/the-mindlessness-of-progressive-identity-politics/

If anyone can get past the paywall on the original article, I’d like to know what it says.

pst314

Sadly, he deleted the tweets in question before I could screengrab them all.

One could use a utility to make it as easy as one click to grab an entire Twitter thread.

pst314

he insisted on referring to the attacker as a “would-be mugger,”

"Would-be mugger" is somewhat related to "not real socialism".

Steve E

Mr. Ford is a Marxist and clearly demonstrates his belief in the same Marxist paradigms that Lenin and Stalin used to create the Gulag.

Criminals as we think of them--thieves, murderers, rapists, robbers etc--are merely brothers who have been victimized by the greater class struggle. They are not bad people though they are forced to do bad things. These are the people who, according to Solzhenitzen, ran the camps. The politicals, imprisoned under section 58, were true enemies of the state and were guilty of wrong-thought. They were believed to be irredeemable and were on the receiving end of much of the camps' sadism.

In Ford's mind a gun owner is commiting a wrong-thought political crime and is irredeemable and responsible for the actions of the assailant. The armed robber is a victim of the greater class struggle and isforced into his situation by the inequity of his circumstances.

pst314

Steve E: You are correct.

pst314

If she had let him rob her, even at gunpoint, both likely would have survived

And of course robbery victims have been killed by just a blow to the head, while others have suffered permanent neurological damage.

In the end, Zack is a reminder that a sane society treats Marxists as enemies more evil than mere muggers.

Chester Draws

Not a lot Pogonip, that you wouldn't see here. Not worth chasing around to read, although amusing of itself.

You've probably read this already, for example:

CNN legal analyst Areva Martin thought she was talking to a white man Tuesday while appearing as a guest on David Webb’s SiriusXM radio show.

When Webb, a frequent Fox News contributor and host on Fox Nation, said he considered his qualifications more important than his skin color when applying to jobs in journalism, Martin accused him of exercising white privilege.

But there’s a problem with that sentiment, as Webb quickly pointed out:

“Areva, I hate to break it to you, but you should’ve been better prepped,” he responded. “I’m black.”

Burnsie

Hopefully, this will lead to a major increase in concealed-carry permit applications (and approvals) in Chicago. An armed society is a polite society.

pst314

Martin accused him of exercising white privilege

If she had known he was black, she would have accused him of being an Uncle Tom.

Mark G

The shot to the neck was not trick-shooting. This woman was fighting for her life and almost missed her target.

Steve E

“Areva, I hate to break it to you, but you should’ve been better prepped,” he responded. “I’m black.”

Proving, once again, in a blind taste test, White Privilege isn't really a thing.

No need for New Coke then, no need for New Coke now.

David

Proving, once again, in a blind taste test, White Privilege isn’t really a thing.

[ Rolls pickled egg along bar. ]

On the house.

Steve E

Speaking of crimes and misdemeanors here's another monster appropriating someone else's culture.

A white, French-Canadian comedian with dreadlocks has been denied a spot at the appropriately named Snowflake Comedy Club at the Universite du Quebec a Montreal because of his hairstyle:

Zach Poitras

[ Calls for feinting couch and smelling salts stat ]

David

the appropriately named Snowflake Comedy Club at the Universite du Quebec a Montreal

a bar and solidarity co-operative

Sounds jolly.

Steve E

[ Rolls pickled egg along bar. ]

Is it supposed to have hair on it?

Steve E

Sounds jolly.

Nobody does irony like the Quebecois even when it's mostly unintentional.

David

Is it supposed to have hair on it?

[ Slides electric razor along bar. ]

Pogonip

Thanks, Chester! What did Areva say when the guy informed her was black?

MC

The bar is operated by the UQAM branch of the Public Interest Research Group, which focuses on environmental and social issues. In its Facebook statement, the co-operative says.... that wearing dreadlocks is “a privilege” for a white person, whereas a black person with the same hair “is going to find himself refused access to job opportunities or spaces (apartments, schools, parties, sports competitions, etc.)”

Ironytastic.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

The bar is operated by the UQAM branch of the Public Interest Research Group...

You sure that isn't the Public Research Interest Group ?

Killer Marmot

Zack Ford is now groveling on twitter in an unseemly, unmanly manner. To quote:

I'm going to try to be more sensitive in my advocacy in the future. For now, I stand humbled by my mistake and simply ask that others will continue to work with me in good faith to end gun violence for all people.

I preferred him when I thought he was just a low-grade moron. Kissing the arses of the people you've offended is revolting. Better they just stay offended.

Chester Draws

Pogonip:

https://youtu.be/i1Ffaa9V2-I

You better listen before YouTube pull it.

Pogonip

Areva must have been hired via Idiot Privilege.

Darleen

Related: the quality of criminal in my jurisdiction (he did make it easy for us).

Darleen

Greg Robinson, a UQAM professor specializing in black history,

Just more evidence of that a study of "black history" is about anger, not scholarship. "Dreads" have a recorded history in just about every civilization of the last few thousand years.

David

Proving, once again, in a blind taste test, White Privilege isn’t really a thing.

Seemingly stumped for a solid argument, Ms Martin reaches for her stand-by “white privilege” accusation, while saying there isn’t time to explain why said accusation should be deferred to as a decisive mic drop. It just is, apparently. Alas, her amulet didn’t work. I suppose the question is whether Ms Martin, a CNN analyst, will at any point pause to reconsider her assumptions and the pernicious, insulting nature of the conceit she relies on when losing an argument.

I’m guessing not.

Burnsie

I’m guessing not.

Natch. As a CNN analyst, her job depends on being pernicious and insulting to anyone on the right. It's how you rise to the top of that crab basket.

Adam

David Webb should be required to announce his skin color several times during his broadcasts. And he needs to stop talking white. Boycott of advertisers TBA.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

David Webb should be required to announce his skin color several times during his broadcasts...

TBF, and to eliminate any such confusion in the future, everyone should revert to the manner of WWII broadcasts, but instead of starting with something like "Hello, London calling, London calling...", one has to announce race, sex, political gender, pronouns, etc.

True, it could be a bit unwieldy, "Hello, cishet black male male he him his calling...", "Hello, lesbian Asian otherkin identifying as male they them xers calling...", but if it saves one CNN talking head embarrassment, isn't it worth it ?

Steve E

Alas, her amulet didn’t work.

Reminded me of the video featured in a post last year of a particular University Panel scold fest where they talked about Africans calling down lightening against their enemies and becoming incredulous when an audience member states the obvious that that isn't possible. I couldn't find the link but Ms Martin certainly believes she can bring down the lightening.

David

Reminded me of the video...

Oh yes. That was a fun one.

Steve E

"lightning" not "lightening"

Under the circumstances and given the context of the misuse of the word, some time with the Scoldomatic may be appropriate. I surrender myself.

David

some time with the Scoldomatic may be appropriate

I’m waiting for new coils. You could, however, surrender to the moral realignment bonnet.

There may be some singeing.

Steve E

surrender to the moral realignment bonnet.

As long as there are trashy tabloid magazines to read while undergoing the process.

Governor Squid

There's plenty from which to choose, though the most recent is from 2007.

David

As long as there are trashy tabloid magazines to read while undergoing the process.

And someone will distractedly ask about your holidays.

jay

Realignment bonnet: I recently saw one for sale in an antique store. Damned scary item.

BTW ref dredlock 'appropriation', I recently read complaints that people who simplify their lives and move into tiny houses are guilty of poverty appropriation. Horrors.

Spiny Norman

Adam,

David Webb should be required to announce his skin color several times during his broadcasts...

What makes Ms Martin's assumption especially blockheaded is that Mr Webb is a fairly frequent contributor to the Fox News Channel - he's been on the television where viewers can see that he's black.

Spiny Norman

Farnsworth,

True, it could be a bit unwieldy, "Hello, cishet black male male he him his calling...", "Hello, lesbian Asian otherkin identifying as male they them xers calling...", but if it saves one CNN talking head embarrassment, isn't it worth it ?

Coming soon, to a woke college radio station near you!

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