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March 22, 2019

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Otto

If you enjoy hundred-comment discussions about whether So-and-so is Alpha, Beta, or the dreaded Gamma, Vox Day is your man.

Vox is a weird guy, but he's got useful things to say on a couple of subjects. One subject is SJW entryism and weaponized codes of conduct. And the other subject, funny enough, is gamma males, of which he's the great classifier and uncoverer-in-the-wild, a job that needed to be done because gammas have become prevalent and influential in the 21st century west like never before.

A good place to start on the subject of gammas is with Tom Wolfe's description of a type who sees himself as a quirky underdog with good intentions, who's unaware of the ego, envy, and spite that really motivates him. And the prevalence of the Gamma Protagonist (1, 2, 3) in science fiction says something about how readers and writers want to see themselves.

pst314

Uri Geller declares Brexit to be cancelled.

The spoon-bender is getting desperate for publicity?

고끼리 형

just out of curiosity, where might one download Momoland's oeuvre? Asking for a friend.

자브워그-남동생 Jabeuwokeu-namdongsaeng

Spotify is probably a good starting point - if you use Chrome browser with Adblock - a free account will get you your fix...mostly without ads

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DZ06evO3ssxNn

Pogonip

Hi Otto,

I place about as much faith in Alpha-Beta-Gamma as I do in all those other “ women’s-magazine-personality-quiz” type schemes.

As an Otto, you may never have perused a women’s magazine, but next time you’re at the doctor or dentist’s office you can grab one. Women’s magazines cater to one of two broad groups. Group One is Women Who Are Married To A Guy Who Makes Good Money. Group Two is Women Who Would Eviscerate Adorable Fluffy Puppies With Their Teeth If Doing So Would Get Them A Group One Husband. The personality quizzes appear in the Group Two magazines, examples are Cosmopolitan, Marie Claire, and Elle. Spend your waiting time reading these quizzes and then look at Vox Day’s personality-classification scheme with a new, more educated eye.

Not to be too hard on Vox Day, I think he’s quite right that codes of conduct are sneaky power grabs. They’re the 21st-century version of restaurants telling the paying customers how to dress.

And speaking of sneaky power grabs, I just saw on a news site that New Zealand has already had to shut down its rifle-turn-in web site because it was completely overloaded with people playfully claiming to turn in everything from tommy guns to plasma rifles. Good on ‘em. If there’s one thing Big Brother, the proud spirit, cannot endure, it’s to be mocked.

Pogonip

Mr. Half, are you really Korean? If so, have you experimented with making Kimchee a la Flamethrower? How’d it come out?

Pogonip

I saw Uri Geller do his act on one of the late-night talk shows once. I don’t remember which one, could have been any of them except Johnny Carson. No fake psychic in his right mind went on Carson, a skilled conjuror who did not suffer cheaters gladly.

Not being a conjuror myself, Geller’s act impressed me as quite entertaining, but I didn’t think he was a real psychic. I figured if he was, he’d be on Johnny Carson. Then, in the U.S., Geller faded out of view in the ‘80’s, I guess spoon-bending isn’t very exciting to watch more than once.

WTP

They’re the 21st-century version of restaurants telling the paying customers how to dress.

Well as a paying customer, going out for a special occasion, if I am going to drop $200 or more on a fine steak dinner and such, I don’t want to be sitting in an atmosphere of people in ratty t-shirts and torn blue jeans. That’s my preference as a customer. If you can afford $100/pp or more meals, you can afford clothes without holes in them. Shirts with an actual collar. And for God’s sake, take off your stupid hat.

Pogonip

That’s one problem I don’t have, the peasantry spoiling my $100 meals (that I can’t afford).

I have been told by women who were there that what stopped restaurants from playing clothes police was women’s pants. A woman who spent $50 (a large amount at the time) on tres chic pants wasn’t about to let some guy she hired to cook her a meal tell her she couldn’t wear them while he was performing the service he was hired to do. And certainly her husband or boyfriend wasn’t going to side with the arrogant hired hand. He’d never hear the end of it.

I’ve hired more people in the last 5 years than I did in the previous 40, and everyone’s been very polite.

jabrwok

Spotify is probably a good starting point

Thanks. And I realize that "sensei" was the wrong language, but I've read a lot more manga than manhua, and I don't think I've seen *any* Korean anime, so I don't know the proper honorifics.

jabrwok

Re: dress codes in restaurants. Gotta agree with WTP on this one. It's not about the restaurant oppressing teh wymnz so much as providing, and ensuring, an atmosphere which people will pay to enjoy. Refusing to comply with the dress code isn't just defiance of the restauranteur and his employees, it's disrespectful to all the other customers.

Pogonip

Me either, and my aunt’s Korean! 🤭
I do know that in Korean a dojo is a dojang. Which would make your teaher Mr. Dojangles. 😄

TimT

The NZ gun ban seems to be drawing a few exaggerated reactions. A lot of people over here - judging from the reaction of Australian and NZ friends - seem to be quietly enthusiastic about it. But we're not motivated by the same politics as in the US. Neither NZ or Australia really has a gun culture, and we don't have a right to buy arms; often, for better or worse, we pride ourselves in not being like the US.

For their part, the NZ Labour government led by Jacinda Ardern seem to be performing the ban partly out of a desire to make things *seem* safe - ie, it's symbolic politics. There's a belief that the tight gun regulations instituted by the Howard Government back in 1996 have successfully stopped gun crime here in Australia. (They haven't - but the rarity of such incidents over here have helped to create that impression). Perhaps they've been planning these restrictions for a while. It's certainly clear that the dickhead who slaughtered those poor people in the mosque got his weapons through normal channels and that, if clearer and tighter regulations can stop that happening, NZ will be the better for it.

I suppose these gun laws will be tested over the next few years.

I can't see gun restrictions, such as there are in Australia, ever taking place in NZ. They are much more of a rural economy.

Ted S, Catskill Mtns, NY, USA

Brenton Tarrant was quite open that he did this in the hopes that governments would take people's rights away, and Jacinda Ardern immediately gave in to him.

WTP

Thank you, jabrwok. Though to your link, this is the thing about politics being downstream from culture. Notice that when the entertainment media does reference previously respected cultural values those values are often expressed via mafia characters or characters with other questionable backgrounds. Rarely, though a Clint Eastwood pic the name of which escapes me right now does come to mind, are these (what are now considered "conservative") values expressed by normal authority figures, parental or otherwise. Even then often in an "isn't that quaint" manner.

My parents grew up poor. Mom's dad hung himself in the depths of the Great Depression when she and her brothers were barely into their double digits. Dad's dad was a coal miner in the winter and a farmer (on rented land) in the summer. Yet both made great efforts to always look presentable and such when we kids left the house. The never adjusted to the jeans and sneakers (Dad called them "gum shoes") culture of the 70's. They would be disappointed in how I dress for work, relatively speaking, and absolutely floored that people in a professional work environment making much more than either of them ever dreamed of would come to work in faded t-shirts and cargo shorts. That people today think it is acceptable to go to a fine restaurant dressed like they were going to the beach really annoys me. I'm not a fancy dresser, nor exceptionally formal in most regards, but when dropping a couple C-notes on dinner once or twice a year (if that), I expect others to show me the respect that I show them.

pst314

Re: dress codes in restaurants. Gotta agree with WTP on this one.

I think they are often a proxy for all sorts of other behaviors.
I have noticed this in night clubs, where a dress code is used to exclude people who will be likely to behave in ways annoying or offensive. (Or even dangerous: few punks and thugs are willing to wear a suit, or maybe even own one.)

pst314

Pogonip Not to be too hard on Vox Day, I think he’s quite right that codes of conduct are sneaky power grabs. They’re the 21st-century version of restaurants telling the paying customers how to dress.

Can you give examples of what you are thinking of? Maybe there are aspects I have forgotten or are unaware of.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Well. After all that Kpop, enjoy a couple actual musicians.

...got his weapons through normal channels and that, if clearer and tighter regulations can stop that happening...

Yes, it might stop someone from getting weapons through normal channels so, like criminals everywhere, his ilk will get them from abnormal channels, or just run over people, or set fire to their buses, or blow something up, but as long as we have a band aid to ignore real problems and feel good about our virtue signalling, everything is hunky dory.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Meanwhile, more Art!™.

Student artist Louise Brown...protesting the pressure to get rid of our pubes by making up a model, performer Lady Kitt, to appear bald then wrapping a pair of fake legs around her neck.

It is hard to believer that even in the 21st century that there are still people who would make mock of this and think this sort of thing is neither vital, uplifting, or contributing to the betterment of all manpersonkind.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

They said there would be no math.

pst314

Meanwhile, more Art!™.

Are these people insane Do they not know that this is not some new conspiracy by the late-20th-century Western patriarchy? That many cultures have had such grooming customs since essentially forever?

WTP

I think he’s quite right that codes of conduct are sneaky power grabs.

Not that I disagree with this, in certain context. Codes of conduct are necessary as a half-step between morality and law. But they are only useful if they flow both ways and if communication is being respected both ways. When one side expressed themselves within the generally accepted codes of conduct but are either ignored or have their statements turned into strawmen arguments that were never intended (see false cries of racism and such), the side not being listened to or ignored will first push back against the codes before ultimately resorting to violence.

Also, regarding mafia and such that I wanted to reference above, when civility breaks down, when the law and/or social customs fail to keep degenerates in line, extra-judicial justice will begin to creep in. Mafia, Islamic radicalism, what have you starts to look better than chaos.

pst314

When one side expressed themselves within the generally accepted codes of conduct but are either ignored or have their statements turned into strawmen arguments...

Also: People with reprehensible political opinions and intentions, but who never use foul language. I have occasionally encountered people who seem to only object to Communists who are actually rude; they cannot seem to see a well-spoken commie as being just as evil.

Pogonip

Hi pst314,

Otto has links to code of conduct examples in his comment above.

WTP, if you feel that strongly that tradesmen should dictate the dress of those who hire them, why not approach local restaurant owners with the idea? For all we know there may be a huge untapped customer base of people who feel as you do.

We went over the dress of professionals before. If members of a profession want to dress up, it’s OK with me. Or if anyone else wants to dress up, for that matter. Ain’t nobody’s business, mine included, if they do.

WTP

pst, Bingo.

Pogonip

There is a whole lot of Brexit stuff today on Naked Capitalism. They normally have something on it every day, but there’s much more than usual today.

Pogonip

I just read that the various kinds of “doodle” dogs do not breed true even after several generations. Isn’t that odd?

Pogonip

The Australian Labradoodle has become a breed and does breed true. With the others, an extensive half-hour’s research has persuaded me that the reason the other designer dogs don’t breed true is nobody much tried. They just grabbed the nearest poodle and nearest Labrador retriever, or whatever the fashionable combination was that year, and bred them.

Mom’s best black poodle got out once and went whoring around the neighborhood. All 3 puppies were black and curly, but one was twice the size of the other two put together and mean as a snake. It’s very unusual for a two-week-old puppy to growl when picked up. Later I learned that a dog has a two-horned uterus and so a litter can have 2 different fathers. We figured Tubby had a different father than the others who were poodly.

Hal

I just saw on a news site that New Zealand has already had to shut down its rifle-turn-in web site . .

. . . For their part, the NZ Labour government led by Jacinda Ardern seem to be performing the ban partly out of a desire to make things *seem* safe - ie, it's symbolic politics. There's a belief that the tight gun regulations instituted by the Howard Government back in 1996 have successfully stopped gun crime here in Australia. (They haven't - . . .

. . . but as long as we have a band aid to ignore real problems and feel good about our virtue signalling, everything is hunky dory.

A New Cause!

Hal

Codes of conduct are necessary as a half-step between morality and law. But they are only useful if they flow both ways and if communication is being respected both ways.

At the beginning of the month I worked a local internet security conference.

Yes, there is a Code Of Conduct there, where the organizers do note that it is growing over time, 'cause hipsters, but the main central bit is definitely stated: “Do not be an ass* or we will kick your ass out!”

Darleen

Meanwhile, more Art!™.

Oh for gawdsakes ... WHO is "policing" the lady bits? Who is receiving phone calls from their local Shave Club demanding proof of Brazilian waxing?

Sam Duncan

“There's a belief that the tight gun regulations instituted by the Howard Government back in 1996 have successfully stopped gun crime here in Australia. (They haven't - but the rarity of such incidents over here have helped to create that impression).”

Same thing in the UK with the post-Dunblane ban.

“There is a whole lot of Brexit stuff today on Naked Capitalism.”

I see they take the “It's all the UK's fault, and a second referendum would fix it” line. No thanks. We told them once.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

That many cultures have had such grooming customs since essentially forever?

Once again it speaks to the astounding ignorance and lack of curiosity of Our Betters™ who have never bothered to look at and/or wonder why there are so many classical sculptures and paintings depicting shorn naughty bits. I suspect a recurrence of rampant sharing of crotch crickets among Our Betters™ who have interesting theories about hygiene (what with it being yet another yte patriarchial plot) and choose to be au naturel might give them a clue.

I kid, no, it wouldn't.

Pogonip

Vox Day would take the position that one SJW gets in and talks everybody into a relatively unobjectionable Code of Conduct. Then more and more SJWs get in and before you know it the C of C is 40 pages long, the organization is full of SJWs, and it has reached the end of its useful life.

I don’t know about that, but I do think Cs of C are an attempt to weasel out of liability. “Your Honor, right here on page 227 of our Code of Conduct it says persons attending the conference are NOT to grope women in the elevator, and so when Ms. S. J. W. Alphabet-Soup accused Mr. Innocent of groping her in the elevator, we were justified in throwing him out and plastering his name all over the Internet, as she has courageously admitted he groped her in the elevator, which as you can see our Code of Conduct clearly forbids. He has no grounds to sue us for libel.”

Vox Day and I could both be right.

Chester Draws

Do remember that NZ has an unusually easy border to police. It can ban things much more effectively than other countries.

So long as they stick to guns I'm ok with it. There has been so far little talk of censorship, via "hate speech" cover or whatever.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Do remember that NZ has an unusually easy border to police. It can ban things much more effectively than other countries.

With all of an 8 boat navy and two aircraft coast guard with over 9,000 miles of shore to patrol anyone with a boat could bring anything in, and as we all know it is impossible to make a weapon from common items.

There has been so far little talk of censorship, via "hate speech" cover or whatever.

I guess when you can just throw people in the slammer you don't have to talk about it.

Elephants Gerald

In the spirit of extending this threads' mini 한류 (Hallyu) Wave....

Maangchi:
Tongbaechu-kimchi 통배추김치
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTucCw1w6Ak (but no flamethrower I'm afraid...)

Spicy garlic fried chicken (Kkanpunggi: 깐풍기)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjneaJ0hmgs

Twisted Korean doughnuts (Kkwabaegi: 꽈배기)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLy9ojZZFOw

ლ(╹◡╹ლ)

쿠킹트리 (Cooking Tree) No-Bake Mango Chocolate Cheesecake
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoxg3pqCteM

๑◕ܫ◕๑

Nutella Chocolate Cookies Recipe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbbbzSLXjJ4

No Bake Apple Cheesecake
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo27RmVO2Uw&t


귀요미 (Gwiyomi)
대한, 민국, 만세 (Daehan, MinGuk, Mansae) The Song Triplets... adorable level 25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSbZJcyLqPM

and a few extra KPOP tracks...

Hyomin Allure https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzFhhCxz2Zg

Jerastar Learn a lesson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6tr6LaJHDU

10cm Storage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4brbgpXEN40

DALsooobin Katchup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kBUGGqTTzM

Woo Won Jae Taste https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XDFAqYaSnE

Winner 사랑하지마(Saranghajima) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBqgGN5j3VQ

Winner Really Really https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tBnF46ybZk

EXO Thunder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58PAt502DeY

EXO Growl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3dezFzsNss

nct 127 regular https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gif0E6jYakM

ikon I'm OK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqszm7AnX-4

Pentagon Shine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu2yQ1zYDYU

Shinee Sherlock (Clue & Note) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8VRaGe3Cqs

Squires

Mein Kampf is still offered. Make of that what you will.

The Arabic translation is a reliable seller.

Chester Draws

With all of an 8 boat navy and two aircraft coast guard with over 9,000 miles of shore to patrol anyone with a boat could bring anything in

Heh. In this instance I have the advantage, having actually worked in NZ border security. There's a lot more to it than that. There's a network of people who watch and inform the authorities of suspicious behaviour well outside for the formal agents.

A short water border can be crossed in an hour or two with a fast speed boat. But we're actually too far for those boats. So that's out.

Commercial boats pulling up anywhere other than a commercial port is so suspicious that they might as well sail around with a great big flashing light on.

That leaves yachts. People do it often enough. They get caught frequently too, because they simply can't do it quickly. The sailing in and out is a matter of weeks (especially given that you aren't going to be operating via Australia, as that doubles your chances of getting caught), so the border security people have plenty of time once they get a tip to locate them. NZ being still a small country, things don't stay secret for very long. (The most effective gambit is a passing over the contraband at sea and then sailing back to your home marina, but that requires *two* boats -- in different countries -- and an ability to handle them at sea.)

Then there's the lack of outlets for the selling of illegal guns, should you manage to acquire some. Basically the only people who would do such a thing commercially are the motorcycle gangs, and their operations are under constant surveillance.

It is an unusual situation, I grant, but that stretch of water does make a difference. A ban on semi-automatic (and fully automatic) weapons in NZ will be extremely effective, albeit costly to do properly. We already have a ban pistols (other than target shooting) and that is quite effective. Very few pistols are used in crimes in NZ as a result. If we can police that, how would we struggle to keep out bigger guns?

In any case, Kiwis aren't that interested as a group in having semi-automatic weapons, nor pistols, available to criminals. Guns are required for pest control, and there's a sizable hunting lobby, but they don't need semi-automatics. The ban will be adamantly opposed by a very small minority, but the vast bulk of people won't have any issue with it.

Pogonip

Hi Chester,

What kinds of pests do you have in NZ?

TimT

Us Australians, obviously. ;)

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Whether there is a market or that New Zealanders chose to be disarmed are separate issues, but when the largest and most sophisticated navy and coast guard in the world can't stop home made Colombian dope submarines, it wouldn't be that complicated for anyone who wanted to to load a similar thing with shooting irons, drop it from a freighter over the horizon, and land nigh anywhere other than a port on a virtually undefended coast of a country with a small population the vast majority of whom live in a few cities.

Pogonip

The U. S. no longer has the most sophisticated navy in the world, we have the most soohisticated Potemkin flotilla in the world, ships held together by rust and prayer, poorly equipped and trained sailors, too much red tale, you name it.

But by God(dess) our navy’s woke, so all is well.

pst314

Mein Kampf is still offered. Make of that what you will.

The Arabic translation is a reliable seller.

Will it get me banned from NZ to speculate that most of the buyers are Muslims that Whitcoulls does not want to lose?

pst314

The U. S. no longer has the most sophisticated navy in the world...

No argument that the Navy has serious problems, but stopping smugglers in tiny boats is very difficult.

Sonny Wayze

"In any case, Kiwis aren't that interested as a group in having semi-automatic weapons, nor pistols, available to criminals. Guns are required for pest control, and there's a sizable hunting lobby, but they don't need semi-automatics. The ban will be adamantly opposed by a very small minority, but the vast bulk of people won't have any issue with it."
..............

Let me acknowledge in advance that I'm not from NZ, but several points are more generally applicable.

1: Weapons =/= firearms.

2: I don't think I've ever heard of a culture that *does* want any kind of weapon available to criminals.

3: "need" semi-automatics? I'd have thought the ability to make a quick second shot would be useful in pest control. Of course, I'm just a city boy.

Squires

I'd have thought the ability to make a quick second shot would be useful in pest control.

Over & under or side-by-side works just as well for that.

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