David Thompson
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March 25, 2019

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Rafi

They actually use a clip from 'Roots' as if that's what their lives are like. F*cking hell.

David

They actually use a clip from ‘Roots’ as if that’s what their lives are like.

Yes, the implied equivalence is a tad grandiose. And so, if you aren’t instantly sure how to pronounce Ms Ali’s Somalian first name, or Ms Roy’s first name, then you’re a “vehicle of racism” and “damaging” their “self-worth and sense of confidence,” and should prostrate yourself at the nearest Temple of Woke Sorrows.

Oh, and note that, despite the pretence of victimhood, the ladies are entertained by having a sense of power over coffee shop employees and laugh at the fact that they’re “never gonna see this barista again.” The one whose own name they almost certainly don’t remember and don’t care about.

So, not big on reciprocity and mutual respect.

Anon

Ask her to pronounce Naihm. If she gets it wrong, punish her. Repeat until she stops being racist.

Alice

“damaging” their “self-worth and sense of confidence,”

As if they lack confidence. They sound totally arrogant.

David

As if they lack confidence. They sound totally arrogant.

Well, quite. Very much the “social justice” type. The words that sprang to mind were get over yourself, love. But these teetering vanities aren’t random or accidental. They’re cultivated, honed, and actively encouraged. They’re a cornerstone of being woke.

LeoTea

I'd like to see how any Americans manage some of the more exotic Irish names. Like Aoife, Niamh, Siobhan, Sadhbh, Medhbh, Aodha, Naoise.
Or even some of tricksier continental ones, like Boudewijn, Michał, Wojciech.

Unusual names are going to get mispronounced. Get over it.

Mike

It’s also interesting how the grievances of the recreationally indignant – these self-regarding young women who wear victimhood like jewellery and complain about the emotional travails of ordering coffee – so often read as an assertion of class status.

That.

Clam

They sound like Valley Girls.

David

They sound like Valley Girls.

Well, if the ladies’ idea of noteworthy hardship and a pressing moral issue is that strangers sometimes mispronounce their names, I think we can assume that theirs are unlikely to be lives of relentless, crippling drudgery.

Y. Knott

"I think we can assume that theirs are unlikely to be lives of relentless, crippling drudgery"

- Or at least, haven't been yet. With such 'toods and eager seeking of things to be offended by, I suspect their upcoming employment / marriage prospects may yet land them in a suitably-reduced situation.

Pass the cats?

David

It’s worth noting the difference in attitude between the ladies above, who pretend that hearing their names mispronounced is both racist and emotionally crushing, and Mr Andy Ngo, who realises that many of us have trouble with the Vietnamese ‘ng’ sound, especially at the start of words, and who makes a point of saying he’s okay with ‘no’ as an approximation of his name.

Fred

David, you might like to add Siofra to the list.

WTP

Several Vietnamese guys I have known went by English names such as Mike and David. A Chineeser or two as well. And a couple Indian guys but I was never sure that if with them it was because they were Christian. Never asked their religion but one guy had some Christian literature on his desk one day so I kinda suspected. Ooh, the anger they must feel. Funny none of them ever showed it though.

Daniel Ream

As if they lack confidence.

They're teenagers. Pompous bloviating to mask deep-rooted insecurities is implicit in the definition. Teenagers gonna teenage, but for some reason we've decided to grant ignorant adolescents whose brains haven't fully formed yet bizarrely elevated status and moral authority.

David

The charming lady who runs the local Chinese takeaway, and for whom English is at best a second language, has struggled to pronounce my surname for close to two decades. Presumably, I should storm in there one evening and publicly berate her for oppressing me and invalidating my personhood.

David

for some reason we’ve decided to grant ignorant adolescents… bizarrely elevated status and moral authority.

Yes, that.

Readers may wish to ponder why it is that modern leftism dovetails so neatly with the psychological shortcomings of adolescents.

Forse

I live in China where foreign names, all foreign names, are a puzzle to Chinese and if spoken, are mangled. What do I, and all other sane foreigners do? We take chinese names. Simple. In Hong Kong I go by Peter Lee, rather than Peter Forsythe. Much easier.
Doesn’t that make one’s life rather less tedious and tense than taking offence at every mispronunciation?

John

... and to think of the humiliation they will suffer when they discover that those little license plates of sold in Disneyland souvenir shops don't come with their names. Oh the humanity! Disney is racist!

Patrick Brown

Very familiar. People who claim to believe they're oppressed, but act like they're aristocrats annoyed that the help don't know their place.

Sort-Of-Mad Max

My goodness, the expression on Keenwah(whatever)'s face at the link!

Talk about 'This station has ceased transmitting' and the playing of the National Anthem. Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo*.

Some scurrilous gents have dubbed that the 'Thousand-penis stare', but I'm thinking it's been that way for a long time.

David

People who claim to believe they’re oppressed, but act like they’re aristocrats annoyed that the help don’t know their place.

Pretty much. It’s not the most unattractive mindset to cultivate – and yet they do cultivate it, publicly, as if it were a credential. And when this obnoxious self-absorption repels people, the effects will presumably be seized upon as further proof of how terribly unfair their lives are.

Toirdhealbhach mac Ruaidhrí Ó Conchobhair

First names are (or used to be) called "Christian names", and there's a clue there to the resentment and the accusations of racism.

Christian names weren't phonetic inventions or exotic imports or characters from TV shows that were popular when you were born. They came from a small set of names that everyone was familiar with through repetition in a shared culture. People who are called "Peter" don't have to invent a mnemonic for baristas because the culture already provides (or provided) mnemonics - gates of heaven, rock on which I build the church, Peter Pan, Peter Fonda, etc, etc.

The other implication of Christian names is that Christian foreigners are more assimilable than non-Christian foreigners insofar as their names - Pyotr, Pedro, etc - are recognizable and rememberable.

All of the above is racist according to the current definition, namely "anything that makes a foreigner feel like a foreigner". It's racist that names that have been in our culture for 50 generations are more familiar to us than the names of people whose parents weren't even born here, because it means that we have our own 50 generation old Christian European culture, and that we're not a mongrel nation, a nation of immigrants, or a proposition nation.

Blank

I occasionally eat lunch with a couple of friends who give pseudonymous initials as their names just to speed things along. No one asks you how to spell TJ.

Of course, they both have perfectly mainstream names. They merely want to cut down on the inevitable question: "how do you spell that?"

Governor Squid

To paraphrase one of the commenters from the linked Twitter feed: "The demand for racism in this country far outstrips the supply."

Little wonder then that we should see so much third-rate knockoff "racism" flooding the market.

Darleen

#4 daughter's name is Siobhan. #3 (Heather) told me once at college she was telling some new friends about her family and mentioned her sister's name. Reaction "Oh, you have a black sister!"

Sam

Unusual names are going to get mispronounced. Get over it.

Hell, we have an Irish friend named Dierdre and we struggle like hell to get that right.

Governor Squid

Don't know why this would be a struggle. It's pronounced "Doctor Dre." Simple!

David

#4 daughter’s name is Siobhan.

I think Siobhan was the first puzzling name I encountered, as a teenager, at least in real life (as opposed to books, etc).

jabrwok

Trying to post an image. Demands text.

jabrwok

Probably should've revised the meme to "people can't figure out how to pronounce it". Oh well.

Jeffrey T. Spaulding

"I'd like to see how any Americans manage some of the more exotic Irish names. Like ... Siobhan"

That's easy. Siobhan Hunter was a most excellent p0rn star back in the late '80s.

Or so I've been told.

Pogonip

More Things That Never Happened:
🙄
https://mobile.twitter.com/MsLisaHendricks/status/1109218891937382400?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1109218891937382400&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.balloon-juice.com%2F

It’s not enough to just say “She was good while the grownups talked politics.” 🙄. They have to add on some ridiculous story.

Jay

What's with this 'everyone must pretend not to notice foreign people are indeed foreign' thing? It gets classified as some insidious forms of micro aggression.

Having done some work overseas as part of my job, I never felt any desire to pretend to be a native. In fact great conversations were had with people who asked about American life, sports, hobbies, movies, politics.

Zasu

David Mitchell makes the point that you don't get introduced to the world once at your birth, with the world being expected to recognize your name thereafter. You spend your whole life introducing yourself and being introduced to people who didn't get the memo about your birth, and paying the price every time for an unusual name. As Stan Still said, it's a millstone around your neck.

Marie

these self-regarding young women who wear victimhood like jewellery and complain about the emotional travails of ordering coffee

LOL. Subscribed.

David

Subscribed.

Bless you, madam. May the clock on your microwave never need resetting, resulting in several minutes of doomed rummaging for the user manual.

Watcher In The Dark

Oh, names... My surname has a silent 'a' (at least in my family's pronunciation and I'll go with that as they got to it first) and it causes untold problems for people pronouncing it. There have even been times where its unobvious presence has caused people to hopefully slip in a 'n' in its place (nope, never worked that one out)

In the summer I have been booked in a group to play in a footy tournament in the Netherlands and the organiser decided to amend my surname to how he thought I should spell it. Kind of the chap, but as it doesn't match mine or the passport, I suspect I may not be allowed on the plane.

Pogonip

Could be worse, Watcher. You could be Mr. Buttgieg (and I know I’m not spelling it right). Mr. B, the mayor of beautiful Fort Wayne , Indiana, would like to be U.S. president. I have heard his name pronounced variously as Butt-geg or Butt-gag. Either way, it’ll be hard to get past on his way to the presidency.

Pogonip

David, clocks are getting so complicated even Son had to check the manual this year.

David

David, clocks are getting so complicated even Son had to check the manual this year.

My excuse, such as it is, is that I only use the thing for warming plates.

David

No, wait, that’s not entirely true. I did once use it for some steam-in-the-bag vegetable rice. But other than that, it’s just an overly elaborate plate-warming device.

wert

Unusual names are going to get mispronounced. Get over it.

Not only that, but phonemes like 'glottal stop' or 'long alveolar click !:' can be pretty hard. In fact, any name of any foreign language will be much mispronounced by anyone non-native.

Sorry about that.

H

My excuse, such as it is, is that I only use the thing for warming plates.

Baked potatoes.

Governor Squid

Warming up soup when I don't want to dirty a bowl *and* a saucepan.

David

Baked potatoes.

Only a deranged heathen would try to bake potatoes in a microwave. The skins don’t crisp and the texture inside is equally disappointing.

All God-fearing people know that potatoes have to be baked in an actual oven, at 210 for 20 minutes then 180 for 45, to ensure both exterior crispiness and even internal cooking, and after being scored with a fork, skewered with a knife, sprinkled with coarse sea salt, and thoroughly fondled with buttery hands. Marmite is optional.

David

Warming up soup when I don’t want to dirty a bowl *and* a saucepan.

What Dark Age savagery is this?

False Profiteer

I'm going to Japan tomorrow. There's a "V" in my name, but there's no "V" sound in the Japanese language. Overblown, fatuous racial grievances here I come!

Darleen

to ensure both exterior crispiness

To extra-ensure - nicely cleaned skin, patted dry and lightly rubbed with shortening or butter.

Darleen

In fact, any name of any foreign language will be much mispronounced by anyone non-native.

On the other hand, I find it annoyingly pretentious when American newscasters drop into faux Mexican accents to pronounce Hispanic names - people or places.

Hal

David, clocks are getting so complicated even Son had to check the manual this year.

My excuse, such as it is, is that I only use the thing for warming plates.

Set a clock on a nuker? I have clocks. The glowing blue light on the nuker is the display that confirms what buttons I've pushed.

David

nicely cleaned skin, patted dry and lightly rubbed with shortening or butter.

Yes, cleaned and patted dry. Not tried shortening, but I can see the point. Hereabouts, we opt for a prolonged and vigorous fondling with butter-smeared hands.

Hal

Unusual names are going to get mispronounced. Get over it.

Not only that, but phonemes like 'glottal stop' or 'long alveolar click !:' can be pretty hard.

Related.

I am bleck, bleck, bleck, bleck, African tribal ! bleck.
Hal

Warming up soup when I don’t want to dirty a bowl *and* a saucepan.

What Dark Age savagery is this?

Ehn, kitchen with the lights off. Illumination is what the light inside the oven is for,

Harvardr

My first name is very much in the news (bribe scandals and racial discrimination against Asian applicants) and is arguably a very well known name of a college. But as a person's first name? I've noted over the years that people will apparently not associate it with a real persons name and simply hear and assign a close enough "standard" name: Hayward, Howard, Harold, Halpern, etc. But I've never keelhauled a barista for f'n up my common but odd name. How petty do you have to be?

JC Flippen

In fact, any name of any foreign language will be much mispronounced by anyone non-native.

There was a user on a forum I was on who insisted on "correctly" spelling Colonel Gadaffi's name. His spelling started with a "Q" instead of a "G", and a lot of the letters had diacritic marks on them. The guy was no linguist, and it would have been pedantic to explain to him that (1) it's a transliteration not a spelling, (2) the diacritic marks are required to express sound distinctions that English speakers like you and me don't have in their phonetic repertoire, and (3) Arabic is oftn wrttn wtht vwls, so no need for you to go to so much trouble. But obviously he's not asserting a principle of linguistic precision, he's signalling his openness to a culture that the rest of us xenophobes give such little consideration to.

On the other hand, I find it annoyingly pretentious when American newscasters drop into faux Mexican accents to pronounce Hispanic names - people or places.

And this is only done with Hispanic names, not with names from older layers of immigration. German names in the United States are absorbed into English language conventions, so much for white Aryan supremacy. And Italian names like Moretti are pronounced without the speakers stressing the penultimate syllable, giving each "t" its own syllable, or flicking their fingers in authentic Italian style.

I wonder if it's a way for upper middle class Americans to boast that they have servants. It would of course be low class to just bring it up that you have servants. Classy people just imply that they're enlightened employers who can condescend, in the historical sense, to the help.

What's with this 'everyone must pretend not to notice foreign people are indeed foreign' thing? It gets classified as some insidious forms of micro aggression.

One of the things I enjoyed about the Captain Sum Ting Wong hoax was that the newslady was spending so much mental energy pretending to pronounce the Chinese names right (or deferentially at least) that she didn't apply the slightest journalistic skepticism to obviously fake names. Everyday racists like me noticed the fake names immediately, because we aren't ashamed of the fact that foreign phonetics are outside our competence, and we don't suppress our giggles when foreign names have funny or obscene connotations in English. And of course, the news channel in its non-apology apologies did accuse the hoaxer among other things of racism.

Pst314

“glottal stop“

Band name?

a different James

There was a user on a forum I was on who insisted on "correctly" spelling Colonel Gadaffi's name.

As I remember it, there was an outbreak of alternative spellings around 2011, with the usual suspects trying to out do each other with authenticity and accuracy.

The Irish Times aka the Craggy Island Guardian was, inevitably, one of the parties.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/gadafy-gaddafi-or-kadafi-a-matter-of-style-1.579659

a different James

Yes, cleaned and patted dry. Not tried shortening, but I can see the point. Hereabouts, we opt for a prolonged and vigorous fondling with butter-smeared hands.

Delia Smith rewrites Molly Bloom's soliloquy

lotocoti

It's insubordinate and churlish.

SteveGW

scored with a fork, skewered with a knife, sprinkled with coarse sea salt, and thoroughly fondled with buttery hands. Marmite is optional.

Are we still talking about potatoes?

bgates

What Dark Age savagery is this?

Band name.

Hal

It's insubordinate and churlish.

Video unavailable
This video is not available.

Substitute Teacher - Key & Peele

Pogonip

Why do the potato skins have to be crispy? Are they normally eaten in Britain?

Now I want a baked potato and we are all out of taters. I. Just. Can’t. Even.

Pogonip

https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/10/feminist-woman-on-a-first-date/

And what does he do with the baked potato skin?

I could not find anything on what a feminist woman should do on a second date. Pogonip is puzzled.

Darleen

Why do the potato skins have to be crispy?

When they are, they are the best part of the potato ... which is why I don't like them microwaved and I'm suspicious of taters cooked in foil.

what a feminist woman should do on a second date.

Once they mention "intersectionality" on the first, there is never a second.

Hal

scored with a fork, skewered with a knife, sprinkled with coarse sea salt, and thoroughly fondled with buttery hands. Marmite is optional.

Are we still talking about potatoes?

Not necessarily.

pst314

I could not find anything on what a feminist woman should do on a second date. Pogonip is puzzled.

And sometimes they antagonize people who might otherwise help them when they need help. Funny, that.

Pogonip

The easiest problem in the world to avoid:

https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/tattoos-are-not-invitations/

Don’t get tattoos if you don’t want people looking at them, you freaking moron!

🙄

Although reading the article makes me suspect that she got the tattoos precisely so she’d have more opportunities to scold people.

Pogonip

*chortle* If a guy asked ME about “intersectionalism,” I’d probably air my belief that the 5 Points intersection (a 5-way) is way too dangerous, and he’d probably agree.

Steve E

To extra-ensure - nicely cleaned skin, patted dry and lightly rubbed with shortening or butter.

Don't wet the skin, clean with a brush, rub generously with olive oil sprinkle liberally with Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt, no need to poke holes in it. Cook on a Weber gas grill centre burner turned to minimum, outside burners to medium high (inside grill temperature should be around 400 F) turn taters after 30 minutes cook for an additional 30 minutes. Perfect potato every time. Crisp skin wonderful texture inside, served with your favourite toppings--mine are sour cream, chives, old cheddar and freshly cracked pepper. For an added treat if you have a smoker box on your grill fill it with soaked cherry or apple wood chips. The smoke from the fruit wood adds an extra bit umami flavour.

You're right Darlene, the best part is the skin! :-)

TimT

Did someone say intersectionalism? Excuse enough for me to post this lovely old WB cartoon about the history of the automobile, from horse-drawn buggies (without horses) to cloverleaf intersections.

I'd been searching for it for years and finally stumbled upon comments in some random internet forum with its name recently.

TimT

And another: "Here is a baby locked in a safe."

David

if you have a smoker box on your grill fill it with soaked cherry or apple wood chips. The smoke from the fruit wood adds an extra bit of umami flavour.

I should have started a blog about baked potatoes.

Pogonip

Everyday Feminism would just scold you about them.

Karl

@Steve E

"...no need to poke holes in it."

My Mum always told me to poke holes in mine - but as with so much else I didn't believe her. Then one day I had one explode in the oven. Worst. Mess. Ever. Easier to throw the oven away and start again.
Mum knows, you know?

And yes, I'm still talking about potatoes.

Adam

A colleague told me about seeing this name on a class roster: L-A.

When the young woman signed into class he asked how she pronounced her name.

“It’s pronounced just like it’s written.” she answered.

“So, that would be “El Ay”, right?” he asked.

“No! That’s not how it is written. It’s “El Dash Ah””

David

Everyday Feminism would just scold you about them.

Speaking of Everyday Feminism, I found this via Melissa Fabello’s Twitter feed:

When you really want a makeover to look more attractive – but, being woke, you can’t acknowledge that some people are more attractive than others.

Adam

My grandson’s mother, who is Japanese, named her new daughter Saorise*. A lifetime of hilarity and indignation will follow. They may call her “Betty”.

* her new husband is of Irish descent.

Pogonip

May Saorise-chan have a long, happy life and not be embittered by constantly hearing “How do you spell that?”

Jonathan

In my whole life, no-one outside of my family has ever pronounced my surname correctly. Perhaps I should sue for reparations?

Sort-of-related:

Theodore Dalrymple once said that, although it was a fashionable idea that criminals suffered from low self esteem, in his experience as a prison psychiatrist the exact opposite was true.

PiperPaul

How do you pronounce, 'Dalrymple', anyway? Does he berate people who don't get it right?

Damian

Claire Berlinski visits "the Fête de l’Humanité in Paris, a Marxist jamboree." There are so many delightfully droll lines to savor.

pst314

Theodore Dalrymple once said that, although it was a fashionable idea that criminals suffered from low self esteem, in his experience as a prison psychiatrist the exact opposite was true.

Thank you for posting that. Very apt...and illustrative of why the left dislikes him.

Jonathan

@Damian:

How do you pronounce, 'Dalrymple', anyway?

As it's spelled bigot!


@pst314:

...and illustrative of why the left dislikes him.

People who speak from years of experience do tend to contradict leftist theories.

Herp McDerp

There was a user on a forum I was on who insisted on "correctly" spelling Colonel Gadaffi's name. His spelling started with a "Q" instead of a "G", and a lot of the letters had diacritic marks on them.

The funny thing is that an American news magazine -- Time or Newsweek -- finally ASKED HIM back in the 1990s. He spelled it "Gadhafi."

Jen

is it possible to make a makeover show that didn't uphold systems of oppression/beauty standards?

Does not compute.

David

Does not compute.

It’s a head-scratcher, certainly - a makeover show that makes no concessions to expectations of attractiveness. It’s also the problem of being woke. It leads to unrealism and contradiction, endless pretending, and therefore stress and resentment.

Kevin B

Didn't the first batch of weirdly spelt American names come from Ellis island where illiterate Europeans with weirdly spelt names were registered by barely literate immigration officials, so the spelling was somewhat random?

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Didn't the first batch of weirdly spelt American names come from Ellis island where illiterate Europeans with weirdly spelt names were registered by barely literate immigration officials, so the spelling was somewhat random?

Yes, and as part of our non-Hibernian clan can attest, they were completely baffled by Cyrillic which resulted in a name that came to be pronounced as if the Cyrillic letters were pronounced the same as English ones they looked like.

Franklin

the ladies are entertained by having a sense of power over coffee shop employees and laugh at the fact that they’re “never gonna see this barista again.”

Satan ought to open a new circle of hell for coffee shop customers who abuse baristas. These ladies should spend eternity boiling in a lake of Sumatran dark roast, fighting to stay afloat next to people whose orders cannot be articulated in fewer than two dozen words.

David

Satan ought to open a new circle of hell for coffee shop customers who abuse baristas.

It’s a cliché, but true, that you can tell a lot about someone by their attitude towards service staff.

Cholmondeley

http://www.unz.com/isteve/fight-racism-by-paying-attention-to-me/#comments

Keya Roy is a Bengali Indian name. Bengali Indian names are mispronounced in the rest of India, and my fellow Bengalis are often stuck up and touchy about it. But it gets beaten out of us in the playground, if we are kids, or ignored as silliness, if we are grown up and difficult about it.

Not that Keya would be hard to pronounce for a Westerner, but for the fact we intentionally misspell our own names in Romanized orthography. Her parents probably call her something that sounds like “Ko-yo.”

She should settle for people calling her “Kay-a”, which is what 99.9% people probably say to her face, anyway.

The mispronunciations she’s painted on her face are likely a figment of her precious imagination. I really find it hard to believe her claim that people screw up her two-syllable first name and one syllable last name.

David

If anyone has trouble with comments not appearing, email me and I’ll make an offering to the spam filter.

Y. Knott

From Pogonip: https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/tattoos-are-not-invitations/

- I looked - couldn't help myself; to quote Peter Puppy, "It's too... HORRIBLE... and yet I stare, perversely fascinated." What I particularly enjoyed though, was an ad on the same page: "Everyday Feminism Needs Your Help!"

- Funny that...

pst314

Satan ought to open a new circle of hell for coffee shop customers who abuse baristas. These ladies should spend eternity boiling in a lake of Sumatran dark roast...

Did you ever read Niven and Pournelle's Inferno, which is Dante's Inferno populated with 19th and 20th Century people...and thus with modernized punishments?

APL

As for as the "My Tattoos aren't for you - They're for me" from Everydayfeminism, can I assume this principle will also apply when I wear my MAGA hat? Asking for a friend.

PaulF

Darleen
After yesterday's discussions about mis-spelling and/or mis-pronouncing names, I do hope that you're considering some sort of action against Steve E for his post [March 26, 2019 at 03:46], because he must be a racist because he spelled your name wrong! Oh, hang on, perhaps the two of you are the same race! In which case, he must be sexist; or, or, or SOMETHINGist! Does it matter what sort of -ist he is, so long as he can be condemned?
(Then he breaks into a cold sweat, as he suddenly thinks to himself - HE? Oh no, I've assumed that Steve E is male! Oh God, have I damned myself?)

David

The Correction Booth is down the hall, second on the left.

PaulF

No! Not going! Scared...

TimT

Baked potatoes in butter, huh? Must try that. Traditionally it's been olive oil here.

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