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April 28, 2019

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Mike

If these are 'our betters', God help us.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

The Kluge Center ?

Kluge (alt. kludge), Noun: a misfitting assortment of parts assembled to make a badly assembled system or machine for a given purpose, but which rarely functions properly without constant maintenance. Verb: to assemble a misfitting assortment of parts into a badly assembled system or machine for a given purpose, but which rarely functions properly without constant maintenance.

Seems apt.

The whole thing is some fine frontier SJW po-mo gibberish (if you were playing buuzzword bingo with shots, you'd by drunk on your ass after five minutes) and though I am partial to the dude with the bizarre haircut at 8:31 saying nothing that made sense, the notion that we shouldn't think of colonizing Mars as colonizing is a tad odd.

The Martian indigenous people have their thoughts about this kludge of a panel.

Adam

Where are the experts on intersectionality in early 20th century art pottery? Why are their voices silenced in this debate? No Mars trips until this injustice is addressed!

David

If these are ‘our betters’, God help us.

Given their alleged expertise, they don’t seem very clear on what it is they want, beyond disdaining white men, the subject foremost on their minds, or how whatever it is that they want would improve space travel, the practicalities of which don’t seem to interest them. (The postscript to the video, with its awkward silence, illustrates this rather well, I think.) But apparently, we need more deaf and disabled people in space. Because space exploration just isn’t difficult enough and dangerous enough as it is. And choosing astronauts with hearing problems, poor eyesight and motor-control issues will make things much more exciting.

svh

The people we 'centre' in space missions are the people who are competent.

PiperPaul

What's the progress on B Ark, anyway?

WTP

The people we 'centre' in space missions are the people who are competent.

Not if we're smart about it. A manned/womaned/soontobeindigenouspeopled mission to Mars using anything close to today's spacecraft technology is suicide. There is no way that the number of people needed to accomplish such a thing can live and work together in the necessarily confined space in the necessary conditions over the necessary time period. Attempts to do this with some of our "best" people right here on earth have failed miserably. This is why I propose sending the incompetent. Convince them that they will be starting the Brave New World that they've always dreamed about, pack them into a rocket like sardines and light the candles. Ooh, maybe paint it pink. With sparkles. We can have a big send off party. I'll even buy the first round of drinks.

jabrwok

A manned/womaned/soontobeindigenouspeopled mission to Mars using anything close to today's spacecraft technology is suicide

Which is why such a mission needs to head to Venus instead. Rather than "colonizing" the Avatar of White, Male, Patriarchal Warmongering (Mars), these woke travelers can embrace their feminine sides in the warm, inviting, non-judgemental environment of the Planet of the Goddess of Love!

Kornbluth has shown us the way!

WTP

Or Venus. Yes. I'm an idea man, not and ideologue. 220, 221, whatever it takes.

CayleyGraph
What's the progress on B Ark, anyway?
We have our top dogs producing as many as possible.
Ten

A manned/womaned/soontobeindigenouspeopled mission to Mars using anything close to today's spacecraft technology is suicide. There is no way that the number of people needed to accomplish such a thing can live and work together in the necessarily confined space in the necessary conditions over the necessary time period.

Then come the deadly aspects of that inconvenient chasm of hard vacuum between worlds, a point lost on Explorers but presumably not on the folks in charge of all the ostensible spaceships and the habitats, the trillions of dollars worth of them. The genetic and neurological damage of cosmic radiation, bone loss, muscle degradation, lethal pathogens, eye damage, and simple, inevitable human error a million miles from Hometown Hardware and Rocket Supply. And the bankruptcy, but hey, we're already reliably advised we'll never run out of dollars.

Anyway, we go not because it is easy, or what if Columbus hadn't, or man's indomitable nature, or the solid platinum asteroids, or some such logic.

Sam Duncan

“Kluge (alt. kludge), Noun:”

The second spelling is also a Glasgow-area word for the crapper. (I often wonder if there's some connection with the more widely-known meaning. We did produce some top engineers round these parts.)

Seems highly apt.

“Given their alleged expertise, they don’t seem very clear on what it is they want”

“What do we want? We'll know when we see it! When do we want it? We'll let you know!”

Actually, now I hear it in my head, there is something very millennarian about that.

David

The people we ‘centre’ in space missions are the people who are competent.

Dr Brian Nord doesn’t seem interested in the kinds of competence required to become an astronaut or astronomer, or engineer or whatever. Instead, he speaks of being brown as if it were a credential in and of itself, and waffles about “power.” When pressed for particulars, he doesn’t appear to have any thoughts, beyond skin colour, on what attributes might be desirable among candidates for space exploration – a subject that doesn’t appear to enthuse him. Which is a little odd, given the ostensible premise of the discussion.

Perhaps the doctor’s energies were directed to more pressing matters. Hairstyling, say.

Daniel Ream

A manned/womaned/soontobeindigenouspeopled mission to Mars using anything close to today's spacecraft technology is suicide.

Robert Zubrin would be very disappointed.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

“Given their alleged expertise, they don’t seem very clear on what it is they want”

Given their alleged expertise, they are some of the most vapid buffoons to have graced these pages.

Miss Indian - no, neither Pocahontas nor the Wild West Show guy were explorers as neither went abroad to discover new worlds and/or bring back new goods and knowledge to the people they left behind. The Plains and Southwest Indians didn't have much use for canoes, and all of them were basically nomads looking for new land after they either trashed or got kicked out of the old ones by other peaceful Gaia worshiping "indigenous" people who came to North America from someplace else, not "explorers".

Mr. Needsanewbarber - many words, no meaning.

Miss Double-Barrel Lastname - claims to be "African American", mom from Barbados, but doesn't know any of her "African" background, dad is Russian-Jewish, so any claims to inherited memories of slavery can be chalked up to the Pharaohs. Despite having a legitimate STEM background gives us the deep insight that the moon is not only majestic, but natural. Probably also free range, gluten free, and non-GMO, but what do I know, I didn't get a 'grant titled "Epistemological Schemata of Astro | Physics: A Reconstruction of Observers".'

Miss Antiabilist - the only valid point is that, as Douglas Bader proved, a double amputee without a G-suit can pull +Gz better than a normal person because blood can't pool in the legs. Of course that has not a damn thing to do with space flight in general or colonizing Mars as astronauts in space are, in fact, not disabled, absent an injury during a mission. Cats have also been used to study motion sickness, so I guess that means we need to litter train astronauts, or something.

This buffoonery appears to be the only infinite resource in the universe.

pst314

Perhaps the doctor’s energies were directed to more pressing matters. Hairstyling, say.

Hairdressers were one of the categories assigned to the B Ark, IIRC.

Ten

Robert Zubrin would be very disappointed.

Others too. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Stanley_Robinson#Economic_and_social_justice)

Zubrin calls for a travel-light and live-off-the-land approach to Martian settlement. He explains how scientists can use present-day technology to send humans to Mars; produce fuel and oxygen on the planet’s surface with its own natural resources; build bases and settlements; and one day terraform—or alter the atmosphere of the planet in order to pave the way for sustainable life.

'With its own natural resources'. But why not terraform and alter the atmosphere ... of a planet without a magnetosphere, water, or suitable gravity. Or more than fifteen inhabitants.

Darleen

Nord's half 'fro ... is that the new woke mullet? The pink t-shirt & jacket with accentuated shoulder pads ... I'm guessing he does his shopping in the junior department of Forever 21.

And I can't help but notice when he looks to his left, the 'fro seems to act like his own drop-shadow.

I'll go replenish my saucer of milk now.

David

As noted in earlier threads, linked above, the contemporary space industry is hardly an exclusive domain of white men, able-bodied or otherwise. The head of SpaceX is female, and the last time I checked, a couple of years ago, around half of NASA’s astronauts are female, and of various colours. Female astronomers and planetary scientists are too numerous to list. The panellists’ implicit conceit - that women and minority “folks” are somehow being excluded from space-related industries and subsequent discussions - is about as convincing as Dr Nord’s hair, or Ms Walkowicz’s shoes.

Anana

Miss Indian - no, neither Pocahontas nor the Wild West Show guy were explorers as neither went abroad to discover new worlds and/or bring back new goods and knowledge to the people they left behind.

Having been brought up on cowboy movies with Indian scouts and trackers, I was expecting a really impressive story of native feats of exploration, not a vaudeville performer boarding a scheduled steamship (knew that already from the movies too - Annie Get Your Gun).

It's a standard move in progressive rhetorical gymnastics to choose a generic word, in this case "travel", and to pretend not to notice the difference between its routine and exceptional uses. She ends up sounding like the sleeve notes of the Traveling Wilburys.

The original Wilburys were a stationary people who, realising that their civilisation could not stand still for ever, began to go for short walks - not the "traveling" as we now know it but certainly as far as the corner and back. They must have taken to motion, in much the same way as penguins were at that time taking to ledges, for the next we hear of them they were going out for the day (often taking lunch or a picnic).

Later - we don't as yet know how much later - some intrepid Wilburys began to go away for the weekend, leaving late Friday and coming back Sunday. It was they who evolved simple rhythmic forms to describe their adventures...

Farnsworth M Muldoon

I was expecting a really impressive story of native feats of exploration, not a vaudeville performer boarding a scheduled steamship...

Child's cartoon image of all Indians paddling around like Hiawatha on Gitche Gumee guiding plucky Guy Fontenot, beaver trapper, aside, given that Indians didn't even have horses till those darn wypipo brought them over in the 15-1600s and never had anything with wheels unless gotten from those same darn ytes, pedestrian mode rather limits grand feats (NPI) of real exploration.

Hopp Singg

The rest of us should also demand to be included ... nay, given leadership positions! ... in the great space exploration projects of the Feminists.

But for some reason that never happens.

[+]

The panellists’ implicit conceit - that women and minority “folks” are somehow being excluded from space-related industries and subsequent discussions - is about as convincing as Dr Nord’s hair, or Ms Walkowicz’s shoes.

These people need medication.

David

These people need medication.

Well, when you’re asking, apparently in all seriousness, how a mission to Mars would benefit Black Lives Matter, as if it somehow should, I think we can say that the foolishness in the room has risen to hazardous levels.

Steve E

I can't help but think if you had mandatory showings of these types of videos at the high school level; the bright kids with an aptitude for higher learning would never attend university, while those less blessed would line-up to attend.

jabrwok

how a mission to Mars would benefit Black Lives Matter

Hmmm, maybe we could dismantle Mars and build a few billion giant space habitats (ala the Bishop Ring and then all the wypipo could move there and leave Holy Mother Gaia to the peace-loving, nature-compatible People of Color. And then life on Earth would go back to the way it was *before* ytes (love that spelling! Thanks, Muldoon!) mucked it all up!

What's not to like?

WTP

"then all the wypipo could move there"

Don't give them any ideas. Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B is for them (them being the leftists) not us. I like it here. All things considered.

Per my parenthetical, perhaps I've said this before but one thing that really starches my shorts about the "racism" cries every time immigration issues come up is that I would gladly accept into my country any PoC, Muslim or otherwise, who truly believes in what English speaking Western Civilization once stood for if I could toss out two white people leftist commie pinkos. You might say the Muzzie thing is iffy but I have a Muslim doctor with whom I have favorably discussed family issues, the raising of children, the expectations of people to pay their bills, the idiocy of our "education" system, just common "conservative" principles and have had a few Muslim coworkers who sure seemed to be of the same mindset based on (admittedly) limited discussion. I do not discuss religion or specific politics with either, though my doctor seemed amused by Trump Derangement Syndrome as well. I might have read into something he said but I really didn't want to pursue the discussion in that direction at that time.

PiperPaul

"given leadership positions"

This seems to be the goal here, as if "leadership positions" in the real world are unearned. And of course, unqualified/incompetent recipients of leadership positions can just hire the appropriate experts and everything will be hunky-dory.

I used to think like that. When I was 12.

John Square

Caleygraph

I saw what you did there. I liked it

sk60

apparently, we need more deaf and disabled people in space… choosing astronauts with hearing problems, poor eyesight and motor-control issues will make things much more exciting.

Get woke, go broke burn up on re-entry.

pst314

apparently, we need more deaf and disabled people in space… choosing astronauts with hearing problems, poor eyesight and motor-control issues will make things much more exciting.

Not to mention the conflicts that would arise if normal competent people were cooped up on a long mission with marginally competent affirmative action hires and worse-than-marginally sane SJW's.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Not to mention the conflicts that would arise...

"In Space, No One Can Hear You Reeeeeeeeeeee."

pst314

"In Space, No One Can Hear You Reeeeeeeeeeee."

...as the sane astronauts throw the SJW's out the airlock.

Jay  Guevara

Visiting assistant professor?

Impressive.

(Visiting from where? University of Mars? University of Chernobyl?)

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Visiting from where? University of Mars? University of Chernobyl?

The University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople, also noted for its music program.

Sort-Of-Mad Max

Well, we can look on the sunny side; maybe these idiots were the only ones available because everybody else they would have had on the panel were too busy doing something productive: "Oh, man, I've no time for this! Send that half-sheared dullard that's always hanging around the Keurig machine nattering on about 'intersectionality'! Nobody'll miss him!"

jabrwok

You might say the Muzzie thing is iffy but

I'd like to believe that Muslims can integrate into Western Civilization seamlessly, and I've read that first-generation immigrants tend to do so fairly well. Then their children grow up and get radicalized, more devout members of the Religion of Peace(tm) use the local population as a sea of camouflage, and as their numbers increase the radicalization goes up as well.

This is all based on online sources, so my understanding may be flawed, but I've read about enough cases of "those nice Muslims next door" who, when the balloon went up, happily slaughtered their infidel neighbors with whom they'd had dinner previously and whose children they'd baby-sat in years prior. Taqiyya is a thing:-(.

At this point the risk/reward ratio leads me to be disinclined to allow any more Muslims into the West (not that my inclinations matter to anyone who could do anything about it). Let them find "economic opportunity" in their own countries.

pst314

The University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople, also noted for its music program.

"Marx and Engels and Ted and Alice, a Theory in One Unnatural Act"

"My Bonnie Professor, She Smelleth"

"Fanfare for the Common Bum"

pst314

Visiting assistant professor?

Visiting Assistant Fluffer would better match the professor's level of achievement.

Ed Snack

All those who quote the "B Ark" scenario should recall what happened to that civilization subsequently....

pst314

Don't worry, Ed, we don't need those telephone sanitizers now that we've eliminated the public phones.

Darleen

but I've read about enough cases of "those nice Muslims next door" who, when the balloon went up, happily slaughtered their infidel neighbors

Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, the San Bernardino terrorists -- may they burn in hell forever. Their deaths, gruesome (I saw some pics) but not gruesome enough for what they did to people who not just welcomed them, but threw them a baby shower for God's sake.

I'm still get mad every time I think about the fact that the families got the bodies back and they were afforded an Islamic burial. There should be a law that those bodies are forever "lost" to anyone.

Darleen
Assistant Chancellor of External Maintenance to the Office of Dining Affairs

Estimated salary: $347,214

Oky doky, I'll take that. ;)

Geoffrey

I'm in favor of these women exploring space. In fact, women have had so little time in space, we need to implement their space travel as soon as possible. If that means we don't have time to fill the oxygen tanks, then so be it.

Farnsworth M Muldoon
Associate Chancellor of the Subcommittee for Investor Affairs

Estimated salary: $572,628

Works for me.

MC

Hairdressers were one of the categories assigned to the B Ark, IIRC.

I suspect there won't be room for the hairdressers. Also, they are considerably more valuable than 90% of academia and 50% of the professional class.

Rafi

apparently, we need more deaf and disabled people in space… choosing astronauts with hearing problems, poor eyesight and motor-control issues will make things much more exciting.

We can't go to Mars until we can guarantee full wheelchair access.

Horace Dunn

The Postscript section is hilarious. The woman who makes a dimwitted attempt at addressing the difficult question (which ought not be difficult to an expert panel assembled to answer precisely that question) says something meaningless and self-defeating about avoiding colonisation by making the early colonisers people who didn't think of themselves as colonisers. Then, in a desperate bid to win back some (self-)respect adds "I'm sure Donald Trump would disagree with me on that". The usual roar of approval that greets snide (and gratuitous) remarks about Trump at gatherings of this kind is not forthcoming and the uncomfortable silence continues.

I wonder what went wrong? Maybe the audience experienced some kind of dawning (self-)awareness. Was there - could there possibly be - some emerging realisation that the event they were attending was premised on nothing but dishonesty, vanity and malice? We can but hope.

David

The Postscript section is hilarious.

Yes, it’s quite instructive and reveals, or strongly implies, the panellists’ priorities. Despite the topic supposedly being discussed and despite their supposed expertise, the five panellists - this “diverse group of thought leaders” - have no response, nothing at all to contribute, and they seem to regard even asking the question with a kind of smug disdain. As if it were unsophisticated.

All we get is a quip about Donald Trump.

WTP

but I've read about enough cases of "those nice Muslims next door" who, when the balloon went up, happily slaughtered their infidel neighbors

What kind of man was he? He was a quiet man...Yeah. Got it. Muzzies are more likely to be terrorists regardless. Whatever. My point still stands, I will gladly trade two known commie pinko wypepo, or HTFIS, for the 1/1000 chance that a Muzzie who believes in the general values of English speaking western civilization might maybe spawn a problem child.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Somewhat related, although inadvertently answering the question, we learn what "progressive ideas" are.

Ruprecht

You would think they would be pro mars colonization either (a) as a way to form an white male free colony or (b) as a place white males can go allowing the freak to inherit the Earth.

Sarah

a white male free colony

Self-reliance and ethnic divorce as political goals didn't long outlive Malcolm X. These days it's all about the immorality of white countries having borders, and the moral case for the redistribution of white income.

a place white males can go allowing the freak to inherit the Earth

That's what suburbia was. And now the better off sururbanites are escape-podding from diversity into gated community exurbs.

jabrwok

the 1/1000 chance that a Muzzie who believes in the general values of English speaking western civilization might maybe spawn a problem child.

Angela Merkel agrees with you on this.

WTP

And AGAIN... Angie Baby ain’t kicking out two commies for every Muzzie she lets in. And AGAIN, she ain’t vetting her Muzzies either...ahem...

jabrwok

Angie Baby ain’t...

Why would she kick out her fellow believers? And how do you vet would-be immigrants for their beliefs? Polygraphs? Sodium Pentathol? Hypnosis? Islam encourages lying to infidels, so taking them at their word seems unwise. What do they bring to the West that improves our civilization and which we can't produce internally, or get from less fractious cultures?

I'd rather not take chances. If we're going to share our preferred approaches, I'd prefer to ban Muslim immigration to the West AND kick out all the Commies. Alas, that's not going to happen either, barring a war:-(. So I'll just keep grousing online and vote for Trump.

David

If these are ‘our betters’, God help us.

They may not be our betters, but they are the kind of people who are happy to be referred to as “thought leaders.” Which, in itself, tells us quite a bit.

WTP

Life is full of risk. Nobody, even Donny Twoscoops, gets a no-risk, everything he wants deal. Vetting isn’t perfect and as this is hypothetical I wouldn’t venture into what method, they will all be imperfect. The vetting is part of the hypothetical, but would apply to the other darkies as well. Muzzies being, what...1/100 of immigrants, properly vetted Muzzies being, what...1/100 of that, then a 1/1000 of that 1/10000 or whatever, lAGAIN said Muzzies being a subset of the less dangerous other darkies, any deal to accept one vetted darkie in exchange for throwing out two Lilly white commie pinkos...a deal which of course would never be offered, but I’d it was... I, and I’m fairly certain Donny Twoscoops as well, would take that faster than Laurie Penny can drop her knickers.

WTP

“Thought leaders” heh... my wife informs me that her sister now has that and “emotional intelligence “ on her LinkedIn profile. The number of things I can mock after a martini and a couple glasses of cab are slowly shrinking. Please pray for me through the next couple dozen holidays.

jabrwok

Life is full of risk.

Some of which is unavoidable, some of which isn't. Allowing followers of the RoP into the West is avoidable.

but would apply to the other darkies as well

??? Why'd the darkies/lily-white thing enter the conversation? Islam isn't a race.

Sure, nothing is no-risk. So what? What's the point of the hypothetical?

There's no advantage to bringing in culturally/ideologically incompatible people, of any race. Positing a hypothetical wherein one chooses to bring in one culturally incompatible population in exchange for expelling some *other* culturally incompatible population seems rather silly. Might as well declare that you prefer cyanide to strychnine.

Sure, if we could (and *would*) reliably vet the immigrants, and if they truly did buy into Western Civilization, then...well, they'd be apostates wouldn't they? Regardless, they'd be better than Commies, at first. But given their history of radicalizing as their relative numbers grow, I'm not confident that any vetting would actually do any good, and the question still exists: what do they bring that makes us better off? Given my druthers I'd expel *both* groups. As that's not an option, better the Devil you know. We certainly have no moral obligation to let them (or anyone) in.

All of which brings me back to my original (and preferred) solution: giant space habitats! Let a billion Bishop Rings orbit the sun and see which societies perform best:-).

WTP

??? Why'd the darkies/lily-white thing enter the conversation?

You're the one populating Bishop Rings based on race...
then all the wypipo could move there"

To which I replied...
Don't give them any ideas. Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B is for them (them being the leftists) not us. I like it here. All things considered.

Per my parenthetical, perhaps I've said this before but one thing that really starches my shorts about the "racism" cries every time immigration issues come up

Which, oddly, was my attempt to 1) hold our ground and make them (leftists) be the ones moved out and 2) to (admittedly awkwardly) remove race from the issue. I think we're talking past each other and drifting dangerously into Code 9000 territory. So if you'll excuse me, I'll have to go now as, hypothetically, someone else is wrong on the internet and I only have so many fingers...JK...LUF...JKA...AMF....

jabrwok

You're the one populating Bishop Rings based on race...
then all the wypipo could move there"

That was in response to the sentiments expressed in the video (and possibly elsewhere in the thread). Perhaps not as well expressed as it might've been.

Ideally the Bishop Rings would be populated by whomever wanted one and could afford it, and based on whatever criteria the purchaser set (race, religion, political philosophy, none of the above, whatever). It'd be interesting to see which flourished and which didn't.

Anyway, the discussion doesn't seem to be going anywhere, and it's ultimately just bloviating anyway, so I'll happily drop it.

Uma Thurmond's Feet

It just occurred to me that leftism is the new freak and geek show, just as kicking celebrities is the new bear-baiting.

Daniel Ream

And how do you vet would-be immigrants for their beliefs? Polygraphs? Sodium Pentathol? Hypnosis?

Welcome to Canada. Here's your ham sandwich.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Guy who got his job title from Darleen's link above has trouble with sciency science stuff.

I'd hate to break it to him that you can tell boy chromosomes from girl chromosomes just by pulling down their genes...

Darleen

Farnsworth, you should receive some sort of award for the spelunking you do to find some mind-numbing stupidity so we don't have to.

TimT

In other news, "a woman eats a banana in protest".

Fred Streeter

Welcome to Canada. Here's your ham sandwich.

I have worked with Muslims who came down to the pub at lunch time for a pint and bacon sarnies / sausage rolls / pork pies.

Just saying.

Chester Draws

I have worked with Muslims who came down to the pub at lunch time for a pint and bacon sarnies / sausage rolls / pork pies.

I suppose in this age of self-defining, one can meet none of the preconditions and still claim to belong to a group. But deliberately eating pork and drinking aren't really in the "I am a Muslim" territory, no matter how much they might think they are.

Perhaps they are Muslim like I am agnostic. I don't really believe in God, but I am a Christian that doesn't believe in God.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

...for the spelunking you do...

To be honest, as spelunking implies a deliberate search, most of the stuff I come across, of which I could fill an entire Friday Ephemera, is completely by accident and/or hitting a link out of morbid curiosity.

QED.

Uncle Mikey

This gave me AIDS. I have AIDS now.

jabrwok

Best Beauty Trend

"Beauty". They keep using that word. I do not think it means what they (pretend to) think it means.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

This gave me AIDS. I have AIDS now.

Oh come on now, AIDS ? Chlamydia I could believe, but AIDS is a bit of a stretch.

Fred Streeter

.Perhaps they are Muslim like I am agnostic. I don't really believe in God, but I am a Christian that doesn't believe in God.

Well, they all prayed at the assigned times (or as near as possible in office hours).
Muslims or Skivers?

Alcohol? Never inebriated. Allah will judge me.
Pork? Ancient dietary laws of hygiene no longer apply. Allah will judge me.

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