David Thompson
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July 01, 2019

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sk60

What’s interesting is that so many left-leaning journalists have been so eager to… frame Mr Ngo either as the aggressor or as somehow deserving of assault by people with borderline personality disorders.

Filming people while they kick the shit out of old men is 'provocation', David. Do you even social justice?

David

Filming people while they kick the shit out of old men is ‘provocation’, David. Do you even social justice?

Well, quite. It’s sort of, “If you film us being violent, violence will happen to you.”

Which all sounds rather familiar.

Lady Cutekitten of Lolcat

Is it still “hot” there? We’ll be in the ‘90’s all week.

David

Is it still “hot” there?

This week we should be averaging around 19/20°. Which suits me fine.

sH2

"Human Rights Campaign"

https://twitter.com/redsteeze/status/1145410620495474689

Bloke in North Dorset

And with great foresight this Rationally Speaking podcast just appeared in my feed:

“We typically think of violence as being caused by a lack of control, or by selfish motives. But what if, more often than not, violence is intended to be morally righteous? That's the thesis of the book Virtuous Violence: Hurting and Killing to Create, Sustain, End, and Honor Social Relationships. Author Tage Rai debates his book's thesis with Julia. Plus: What does The Iliad teach us about changing attitudes about morality over time?”

And if there was ever a group for whom the term Moral Licensing was coined it has to be Antifa and those journalists who excuse them.

David

And if there was ever a group for whom the term Moral Licensing was coined...

I lost count of the severely educated, left-leaning journalists, commentators and noted Twitter lefties - our self-imagined betters - who tied themselves in rhetorical knots in order to excuse or diminish gratuitous assaults on journalists and random strangers, often using the words “provocateur” and “antagonised.” Presumably on the basis that if you quietly film acts of mob thuggery by masked leftists, then, clearly, you deserve a kicking and a stay in hospital. According to a Slate contributor, Mr Ngo “creates an atmosphere of violence,” and therefore, presumably…

As if the LARPing misfits of Antifa need some lofty moral excuse to indulge in the thuggery they clearly exult in, extensively prepare for, and actively seek out.

Mike

As if the LARPing misfits of Antifa need some lofty moral excuse to indulge in the thuggery they clearly exult in, extensively prepare for, and actively seek out.

Quick-dry cement will burn you.

David

Quick-dry cement will burn you.

It’s not something you’d want thrown in your face. Even for “social justice.”

David

Note the long-haired grinning chap with the Star Wars T-shirt.

Graphic video here. As I said, it’s recreational.

Stuart

The ganging up is essentially an outlet for their crusade - a mob able to turn on individuals, especially weaker ones or people making the bad choice to go in alone into the mob. And so those who individually feel impotent release it against those unable to defend themselves. In face, I would think that half the anger would come because of their individual impotence - the fact that what they do in their normal lives just doesn't matter.

I would like to contrast this vs where two competing demonstrations have come into contact, where the Antifa have been handily cleaned up.

I would also call people who go into these mobs as idiots at this stage. They don't deserve to be assaulted, but you have to expect the possibility, especially if you are a public figure.

Jonathan

This is violence carried out by communists and anarchists for political ends. It will continue until antifa get a taste of their own medicine and a few dozen of them end up in hospital. Then watch the leftie 'journalists' and politicians have fainting spells.

Self defence is not violence.

jabrwok

Self defence is not violence.

Self defense is *justified* violence. Ngo and those other two would've been fully justified in shooting the bastards who were attacking them.

David

Ah, but according to the organisers of Antifa’s not-at-all-violent day out, Mr Ngo is a “fascist,” far-right,” and an “active participant in fascist harassment.”

The people diminishing the thuggery and implying, or stating outright, that Mr Ngo had it coming - due to his being a “fascist” who “picked a fight” by merely being present – included a staff writer at Slate; a contributor to GQ; a senior reporter for Mother Jones; employees of Human Rights Campaign, a prominent gay rights organisation; the chair of Atlanta’s Democratic Socialists of America; a writer for the Independent; and at least two Guardian contributors. And most of the examples I can recall weren’t one-off quips; they were usually long and triumphal exchanges, often denying events for which video was widely available on YouTube and Twitter.

David

Tim Newman has some thoughts.

Karen M

Ah, but according to the organisers of Antifa’s not-at-all-violent day out, Mr Ngo is a “fascist,” far-right,” and an “active participant in fascist harassment.”

They're f*cking delusional.

havermeyer

...but the "real" journalists will continue to wring their hands on the "journalist" Kashoggi...

David

They’re f*cking delusional.

Well, it’s hard to tell where the bare-faced lies blur into self-flattering hallucination. They like to pretend that they’re selfless, heroic and fighting The Evil Empire, but they’re just enacting the livelier bits of A Clockwork Orange.

Because they enjoy it. Because it makes them feel powerful.

fnord

They're f*cking delusional.

No, they're Nazis minus the Joo hate.

Mark Matis

Tribe.

Tom

No, they're Nazis minus the Joo hate.

Give them time, it will show up eventually. Anytime you get a bunch of low-IQs dressed in black throwing things antisemitism is just around the corner. Unfortunately.

pst314

No, they're Nazis minus the Joo hate.

I like the old label "red fascists". Because "fascist" conveys how vicious they are to ignorant modern ears while "red" reminds that they are indeed commies.

pst314

Give them time, it will show up eventually.

Yes. They already hate Christians, so open hatred of Jews is inevitable.

Flubber

Yes. They already hate Christians, so open hatred of Jews is inevitable.

Its inevitable under the victimhood hierarchy as well. Jews are so significantly over represented in Media/Finance that any claim to victimhood is laughable (from the progressive's perspective), and so viciously coveted by all the other groups. See the UK Labour party. The perceived victimhood of the Palestinians is so all consuming (and one dimensional) that they have tipped over into naked Jew loathing.

Lady Cutekitten of Lolcat

We won’t get 20 degrees C till mid-late Oct. when I was a kid it was mid-late Sep, seasons here have shifted forward about a month in the last 50 years.

TDK

No, they're Nazis minus the Joo hate.

No the "Joo hate" is already there. Antifa in the US and Momentum in the UK are overwhelming populated by people who think Israel is a white imperialist endeavour. They support PSC and BSD and wish for the destruction of that country. Further they look at antisemitic attacks on Jews (who have no connection with Israel) and blame anyone except the perpetrator.

As an example: Richard Zimler, an author who happens to be Jewish but with no connections, (eg. residence, family or financial) with Israel is boycotted, because he is Jewish

Killer Marmot

The fascist impulse is never far from the surface. The use of force and the retraction of democracy and civil liberties is like cocaine to those who are frustrated that some people think differently than them and just won't do as they're told.

It takes patience, maturity, and foresight to advance liberal democracy and the rule of law, things that these arrogant super brats seem to utterly lack.

David

The fascist impulse is never far from the surface... arrogant super brats

In case anyone missed it, this rather captures the psychology.

Mags

included a staff writer at Slate; a contributor to GQ; a senior reporter for Mother Jones...a writer for the Independent; and at least two Guardian contributors.

"Of all 15 verified national-level journalists in our subset, we couldn’t find a single article, by any of them, that was markedly critical of Antifa in any way. In all cases, their work in this area consisted primarily of downplaying Antifa violence while advancing Antifa talking points, and in some cases quoting Antifa extremists as if they were impartial experts"

https://quillette.com/2019/05/29/its-not-your-imagination-the-journalists-writing-about-antifa-are-often-their-cheerleaders/

WTP

I would also call people who go into these mobs as idiots at this stage. They don't deserve to be assaulted, but you have to expect the possibility, especially if you are a public figure.

Yeah...no. If so-called "real" journalists showed an inkling of interest in reporting what is obviously news, or at least potential news, you know, the things that shan't exist in darkness lest democracy die, then I might be inclined to agree with you. Calling him an idiot for doing so is as justifiable as calling those who do not do so cowards. And those who accuse him of seeking martyrdom may have a point, insofar as he may very well be seeking it. In the grand scheme of things, is that really so wrong? When the likes of antifa and such make a much more deliberate effort to incite violence at Trump rallies and similar, the general wisdom, even in the face of such antagonists becoming more and more belligerent, is "don't let them become a martyr". While I certainly would not encourage the likes of Ngo or others to engage in this manner, I certainly would not call him an idiot for doing so. The idiots are those of us who have been silent all these years lest our sticking-out-nail get pounded down.

Kevin

This is all on the citizens of Oregon.

Your government has stopped serving in the public interest.
Your police department has stopped serving in the public interest.
Your state Senate has stopped serving in the public interest.
Your state AG has stopped serving in the public interest.
Your entire civil service at every level serves in self interest only.

YOU HAVE LET THIS CONTINUE.

No mansions of the champagne socialists who elected this mayor have been put to the torch.
City hall has not been put to the torch.
Your mayor, your police chief, your senators, your AG, have felt none of the pain any of you are feeling.

It is not up to the police to fix this.
It is not up to president Trump to fix this.
It is not up to CNN or the press to fix this.
It is not up to the National Guard to fix this.
It is not up to the judges to fix this.
It is not up to the county sheriff to fix this.
It is not up the PTA to fix this.
It is not up to the state or county prosecutors to fix this.
It is not up to California to fix this.
It is not up to Texas to fix this.

You have built an enormous 35 headed leviathan that employs 75% of the adult population in your state; HOW HAS THAT WORKED OUT FOR YOU?

Sam

I was told there were Page 3 girls here, but the only picture I've seen is of an Ironic Jesus so steeped in patchouli oil I can smell him through my screen.

Kevin

The three most relevant quotes there will ever be in the world.

"The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior 'righteous indignation' — this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats."

~ Aldous Huxley

"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

~ Benjamin Franklin

The people of Portland and Oregon were hypnotized by the piper's tune. They signed all their personal responsibility over to benevolent dictators.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."

~ C. S. Lewis

Kevin

The opioid epidemic isn't just about drugs you ingest or inject. What is antifa, if it is not a pusher of moral opioids? Offering throngs that most delicious of moral treats; the opportunity to destroy with good conscience.

Sam

In non-London Baseball sporting news..we actually got a great Austrian GP! There's something about a Dutchman ripping the heart out of a Frenchman on live TV that really tugs the heart strings.

(Sorry, but I can't bring myself to comment on these thugs. They disgust me to a degree I wish wasn't possible.)

WTP

You have built an enormous 35 headed leviathan that employs 75% of the adult population in your state; HOW HAS THAT WORKED OUT FOR YOU?

What makes you think that the people of Oregon (the majority at least) are not sympatico with all of this? As far as they are concerned it's working out just fine. So long as the other 25% continue to shoulder the burden.

I was watching an episode of "Engineering Catastrophes" on the Science Channel this weekend and one segment was in regard to the horrible roads in Portland. They're little more than a series of potholes connected by alligator asphalt. They showed a "local resident" (hippie) who ran a doughnut shop featuring a special pothole themed doughnut from which he was donating (supposedly) some percentage of sales of such to the city so that they could fill some potholes (as if). At one point they took a couple dozen doughnuts out to a pothole in the street in front of the shop and dumped them in, pretending (I think) to "solve" one problem. These are not serious people. They will ride whatever misery is about them down to the bottom. They simply do not understand how anything works. This is how it has worked out for them and in their hippy-dippy world, you just groove with it, man.

David

Long-haired grinning chap, seen in action upthread, has apparently been identified.

It seems he has a history.

Again, recreational.

Sam

What makes you think that the people of Oregon (the majority at least) are not sympatico with all of this?

Something I've often wondered: what percentage of voters/citizens who identify as as bigoted collectivists is required to achieve SJW critical mass? Growing up in Austin, TX gives one insight into the amazingly small quantity of these dedicated marxists required to set the political tone of a city.

David

gives one insight into the amazingly small quantity of these dedicated marxists required to set the political tone

A contributing factor may be that saner people tend not to derive their sense of self-worth solely or largely from political agitation. For the most part, we have better things to do, and better people to spend time with. It’s rather like how the Mao-lings gain traction on campus committees, from the student union upwards. It tends to require belligerence and a kind of monomania. Given the kinds of personalities most attracted to such things, sitting through endless meetings with them isn’t everyone’s idea of time well spent.

Boatswain's Mate

The people diminishing the thuggery and implying, or stating outright, that Mr Ngo had it coming - due to his being a “fascist” who “picked a fight” by merely being present – included a staff writer at Slate; a contributor to GQ; a senior reporter for Mother Jones; employees of Human Rights Campaign, a prominent gay rights organisation; the chair of Atlanta’s Democratic Socialists of America; a writer for the Independent; and at least two Guardian contributors. And most of the examples I can recall weren’t one-off quips; they were usually long and triumphal exchanges

One of the main problems that people who are more to the right of Antifa and its media cheerleaders have -- and will continue to have -- is coming to grips with the fact that you can't shame the shameless. All of the well-thought-out or just plain factual Twit responses, Flakebook posts, and other (anti-)social media writings will have absolutely NO effect on them because they are ideologically possessed creatures. The ideology, the narrative MUST be protected at all costs. Thus, they are bad-faith actors, and as such, attempts at reasoned discussion is a complete non-starter ab initio. You can absolutely prove them wrong without a scintilla of doubt on a point on Monday, and they'll be back spouting as undeniable truth the same nonsense on Tuesday.

Power is all they're after -- the sheer, raw exercise of power and dominion over others. Period. And if they have to lie, cheat, steal, or employ violence in order to get it and in order to deny the reality that's staring them right in the face, they can do it and with a clear conscience.

And for those of us who were reared to believe that words and reason are better than swords, that will be a hard lesson for us to truly learn.

You CANNOT shame the shameless.

Darleen

Dare we hope?

Governor Squid

For the most part, we have better things to do, and better people to spend time with.

It will just get worse, and then worse still, and then one day they'll attack the wrong person. Maybe they trap a car in one of their roving traffic barricades, and when the driver panics and tries to escape they drag her from the car and leave her bloodied on the street. But maybe it's a photogenic young mother whose toddler is screaming from the back seat the whole time, and the footage goes viral. Or maybe it's a City Councilman's favorite niece. Then I think the LARPers will be astonished at how quickly the backlash wipes them out.

This, of course, is a best-case scenario. The more likely path is that they try to drag a veteran out of his car, and he shoots three of them dead on the spot. This is the outcome they're really after, since it will justify all their preemptive violence to this point, as well as the escalation of violence they've been working toward. I shudder to think about what that city will look like when the police are told that they can only intervene on behalf of Antifa, to prevent the townspeople from protecting themselves. At that point, open war between the citizens and the Mayor's private security forces is only a matter of time, and the ramifications of that kind of violence will likely finish the unraveling of the social fabric that we've seen fraying lo these many years.

Which, of course, was the purpose all along.

Boatswain's Mate

I shudder to think about what that city will look like when the police are told that they can only intervene on behalf of Antifa, to prevent the townspeople from protecting themselves.

If the City of Portland actually did such a thing -- y'know, with an actual order that was written and can be found and published or was verbal and can corroborated by credible witnesses -- and somebody was to be harmed because of such an order, you couldn't count the number of lawyers rushing in wanting to file a section 1983 action. Because that would be the easiest paycheck EVER.

[+]

Maybe they trap a car in one of their roving traffic barricades,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGUxYjPxzJ8

Daniel Ream

So, helicopters then? Yes. Helicopters.

WTP

Helicopters

Nah. Scoops

Lady Cutekitten of Lolcat

Words and reason are better than swords.

Debatable. What is not debatable is that a rifle is better than either.

David

Ain’t she a love.

Sporkatus

An observation made by VTK in the comments at Ace's:

"Odd that Antifa (allegedly anarchist and anti-capitalist) is claming that Andy Ngo isn't a "real journalist" on the basis that he's not sponsored by the Government or a large media corporation. "

Farnsworth M Muldoon

If the City of Portland actually did such a thing...

The mayor is the police commissioner, unsurprisingly all the city commissioners (who allegedly have oversight of the police bureaus) are democrats and one of the commissioners is the mayor. What could possibly go wrong with that setup; it was reported the cops were given a stand down order.

Sam

Scoops

Haven't seen Soylent Green in a while - what happens after everyone finds out? I mean, there's still not enough food in Ehrlichtenstein, right? Does the cannibalism just become more laissez-faire? Free-range people vs that awful factory farm human parts, etc.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

...you couldn't count the number of lawyers rushing in wanting to file a section 1983 action. Because that would be the easiest paycheck EVER.

You rang ?

Sam Duncan

Meanwhile, on the opposite side of the Pacific, other people aren't too impressed by communism.

Ten

Dare we hope?

Which links to: "Ted Cruz seeks federal action against Portland mayor after antifa attacks journalist"

Finally someone does something. After all the arguing and all the exposing the left's somehow yet-shocking hypocrisy finally Ted Cruz, of all people, does something. Given that assault, battery, and attempted murder are already illegal, it falls not to endless chatter and hand-sitting about psychotic behavior but simple authority to enforce existing authority, both in the service of simple negative rights.

Upthread it was observed that Oregonians did this. And since they did, it is up to a nation to fulfill the conservative mantra - one increasingly co-opted by leftists - a nation of laws. The manufactured outrage against all the manufactured rage remains impotent.

You know you've crossed your Rubicon when you have to pass laws to enforce laws that stem from the original national lawful contract. But it's something; something in a land mostly of nothing.

Sam

But it's something; something in a land mostly of nothing.

Meh, in a union of 50 states a handful are bound to go full Venezuela. Voting, U-haul rentals, and speech are all more-or-less legal in Oregon. Handguns and ammunition are as well. Though you feel for the saner residents, of course, it's simply the people getting what they want good and hard.

Ten

in a union of 50 states a handful are bound to go full Venezuela. Voting, U-haul rentals, and speech are all more-or-less legal in Oregon. Handguns and ammunition are as well.

Meaning that speech is impotent, really, because after it's died down what's left is running, the violent self-defense that can never happen, or the National Guard.

Somehow I expected that the largest socio-political bloc would have by now learned how to make regular demands of the reasonable congress it apparently never elects.

Charlie Suet

When I looked at the talk page for the Antifa Wikipedia entry today, there was strong resistance to adding anything at all on this incident, on the grounds that it was too recent. Not something that seems to concern them in other areas.

One chap suggested, in the course of explaining that the cement milkshake story needed to be verified, that it might be an attempt to boost sales of Portland cement. It was also claimed that an article from the Spectator website (the Speccie being one of the oldest magazines in the English speaking world) was not an appropriate source because it was just a blog.*

*Ok, it was by Toby Young. But still.

jabrwok

In the spirit of the Open Thread, and being unable to remember exactly where I found this (might've been here for all I know), I give you Garfield minus Garfield!

I never realized how closely the life of Jon Arbuckle maps to my own.

...

Spiny Norman

Dare we hope?

[Predicted] Mayor Wheeler's response to Ted Cruz:

"Senator, you represent Texas, not Oregon, so mind your own business and stay out of ours."

pst314

"Senator, you represent Texas, not Oregon, so mind your own business and stay out of ours."

To which my reply would be "So, you think the federal government should not have taken steps to end Jim Crow? Up yours with red-hot rebar." But I'm not a nice guy anymore so you won't get measured low-key language.

Ten

...you think the federal government should not have taken steps to end Jim Crow?

The presumed social sin of racism does not equate to giving a state over to actual violent chaos, including against existing local, state, and federal law. I'd like to hear the anti-federalist argument that can yet constitutionally justify central overreach involving social, state's rights issues.

pst314

The presumed social sin of racism does not equate to giving a state over to actual violent chaos...

I should have cited how those state governments allowed the KKK to operate with impunity, committing numerous acts of terrorism and murder.

Ten

I should have cited how those state governments allowed the KKK to operate with impunity, committing numerous acts of terrorism and murder.

At which point we could both have also cited that the whole spectrum of assault all the way through murder is quite illegal and has been for some time. Locally and regardless of motive.

By the anti-Jim Crow method apparently we defer instead to a federal thought law that ultimately but hopefully affects some degree of material state crime.

Cruz appears to have raised a valid point for consideration: that Oregon is no longer able to police itself, the result not of what X thinks of Y's opinion of Z's melatonin - see: ANTIFA - but the simple fact somebody's going to be killed while local law enforcement and its protect-and-serve mandate has been officially sidelined.

There are real, negative rights like the one to life, and then there are circuitous, over-reaching prohibitions from afar on what is only tacitly tied to ultimate local acts.

pst314

Oregon is no longer able to police itself

I would say "no longer willing".

When a local government deprives citizens of their constitutional rights, federal intervention is justified.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

I would say "no longer willing".

The precedent is Eisenhower federalizing the Arkansas National Guard and sending in elements of the 101st to enforce segregation of Central High as I am reasonably sure the governor (who has a certificate in women's studies) isn't about to send the ORARNG in to sort out Portland.

Ten

If all of Oregon fails to police itself it is collectively unwilling. Assuming there are law-abiders left in the place they're unable to be policed.

Federal intervention is at least topical, and Cruz is, whether truly or for political effect, correct to raise it. I'll add, however, that federally outlawing Jim Crow segregation so as to re-outlaw murder would be akin today to federally outlawing public protests to ostensibly protect the lives of gay Asian journalists.

The right wouldn't be caught dead, so to speak, outlawing anyone's right to speech, including everything but the absolutely most extreme corruptions of the word. Such is our constitutional purity. (Funny, because to be honest dear Portlandia may may be on to something by letting willing morons rumble among themselves and maybe reduce the herd.)

But for speech, prohibiting say, the violence of Marxism would save countless lives...

Darleen

The presumed social sin of racism does not equate to giving a state over to actual violent chaos

Except Jim Crow laws weren't social sins but actual negation of individual rights, not JUST of blacks but of whites. It was law that forbid voluntary associations between citizens. It wasn't that it allowed certain business owners to keep out blacks, but it also compelled other business owners to keep out blacks that they wished to do business with. And there were other aspects of government treating blacks differently than whites. Also a violation of basic Constitutional rights.

When the local government acts illegally in a manner that harms the Constitutional rights of its citizens, Federal jurisdiction is called for.

t we could both have also cited that the whole spectrum of assault all the way through murder is quite illegal and has been for some time. Locally and regardless of motive.

Specious as we are not talking about crimes where the local government actually attempts to use it's police powers to identify and bring to justice the perps of such crime, regardless of the melanin or motive ... but where the government is an accomplice in crime by enabling the perps to commit crime against others with impunity.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

If all of Oregon fails to police itself it is collectively unwilling.

In which case, the President, per 10 USC §253, and as outlined in Enclosure 4 of DoDI 3025.21 and other relevant documents, is authorized to use federal troops to restore order without the usual Posse Comitatus constraints.

Ten

Darleen, Jim Crow was a post-Civil War measure. Brown was in 1954 and federal civil rights, such as became under that rhetorical umbrella, were ten years later. The assertion that federally prohibiting prior state-level social acts morally or structurally addresses assault and murder is unfounded. Up until that time it wasn't constitutional either (and federalism remains at least something of a principle even today in a land both partisan camps gave over to collectivism long ago).

You need a lot of weight to justify any federal morality but virtually none to reapply prior constitutional law and order in a lawless, violent American state. Tying Jim Crow to lynching is like tying public assembly to Andy Ngo's assault, and tying either to a federal act aimed at preventing state-level crime is as structurally faulty as it is procedurally dangerous. Elevating assembly to such a level actually protects ANTIFA, by the way, and probably leads to enabling incidents like Ngo. I'm guessing Soros would know. I'm also wagering that post-civil war segregation was originally pragmatic and only later was reinvented as oppression.

But the right has become reactionary. It's racing the left to reclaim various contemporary social virtues, having first given up so many structural issues and their original, federalist, constitutional ethics. Justifying more arbitrary federal acts in one instance potentially does so in all, and they all eventually come at a cost.

So it's not specious at all. Crime has a definition and as such, also a proper level of legal procedure and with it, an ethical motive and constitutional framework. Portland is only a potential federal issue justifiably when it descends into mortal chaos, not when thugs need to be prevented from, in your example, either speech or assembly in order to save a Ngo and in the process uphold a broader, detached constitutional element.

Lady Cutekitten of Lolcat

Since we’re talking law, may I quote that famous lawman Barney Fife: “Nip it in the bud.”

The U. S. government could prevent much suffering by getting on top of this now, as Farnsworth suggested.

Lady Cutekitten of Lolcat

For a change, some non-American nuttiness:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7196679/LIZ-JONES-goes-inside-Gwyneth-Paltrows-Goop-wellness-festival.html?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

(Hat tip Ace)

Darleen

not when thugs need to be prevented from, in your example, either speech or assembly in order to save a Ngo and in the process uphold a broader, detached constitutional element.

I'm sorry, can you point to where I've ever said that Antifa should be prevented from speech? I'm not talking about their 1st amendment right of speech or assembly OR free association. Like the Nazis who marched through Skokie, as abhorent and down right evil their speech, violence to suppress it is wrong.

However, CONSTITUTIONALLY

A federal appeals court made that clear in Dwares v. City of New York (1993). It allowed New York City police to be sued because they allowed flag burners to be attacked, when they likely would not have permitted such attacks on anyone else. Such viewpoint discrimination was forbidden by the First Amendment.

In Portland, police did nothing as Antifa attacked people nearby. For example, Antifa members viciously attacked journalist Andy Ngo on Saturday at a Portland rally. They assaulted him with fists and milkshakes that may have contained caustic quick-dry cement, sending him to the emergency room. Other video of Antifa shows “a group of masked thugs beating an elderly man in Portland with a crowbar and macing him.”

[snip]

It is true that Portland police have no duty to protect anyone. But once they protect anyone, they can’t selectively deny protection to victims of a left-leaning group like Antifa. Such ideological discrimination is forbidden. Portland does try to protect people attacked by right-wingers, and it generally does try to protect members of the general public against non-political violence when there is an obvious risk of it. It needs to give victims of left-wing violence the same protection.

There is no exception to constitutional protections for conservative victims, nor is there a “punch a Nazi” exception to the Constitution. For example, in Hernandez v. City of San Jose (2018), the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that a city could be sued for increasing the risk that Trump supporters would be attacked.

David

And if there was ever a group for whom the term Moral Licensing was coined...

It’s worth noting that at Berkeley in 2017, Antifa and their cheerleaders were starting fires, smashing windows and assaulting random women. One of whom had committed the sin of wearing a Bitcoin hat.

Berkeley’s leftist faculty were of course titillated and predictably dishonest.

While the moral colossus Laurie Penny, who was watching from yards away, was busy telling us how brave she is… for talking to conservative students. Because unlike the masked far-left rioters – the ones opportunistically beating strangers with metal bars and gleefully punching women – and whose actions Laurie carefully ignored - conservative students are “vicious and vengeful.” And she’s “fucking terrified of them.”

This is the warped mental landscape in which Antifa thrive.

Ten

can you point to where I've ever said that Antifa should be prevented from speech?

I didn't. I said abolishing Jim Crow because of local violence connects them about as well as tying public assembly to assaults on gay Asian journalists. We have more direct laws for that, assuming they've not been effectively - or officially - abolished.

You subsequently implied equal protection - 14A (1868) and/or the Civil Rights Act (1870) - concerning assembly re: Jim Crow. Re-litigating the civil war and especially 14A is a difficult and messy business on all levels, as is the sphere of slavery and related issues, again on all levels, as is the proper scope of federalism, which leads us back to Portland.

Ten

It is true that Portland police have no duty to protect anyone. But once they protect anyone, they can’t selectively deny protection to victims of a left-leaning group like Antifa. Such ideological discrimination is forbidden.

If this is the free-standing summary of our many Portlands it becomes a lovely bit of ideological sophistry if it again unhooks serious local crime from immediate law and opens the door for yet more federal philosophizing, including in the aftermath of SCOTUS making local enforcement optional. The writer should be clearer in making the distinction between criminal and civil. At any rate attempted murder is not an optional crime.

Connor

Laurie Penny, who was watching from yards away, was busy telling us how brave she is… for talking to conservative students.

Honk honk!

David

Honk honk!

And just to be clear, Laurie wasn’t saying she was worried that being anywhere near conservative students, the ones being besieged and assaulted, might also make her a target for assault by her leftist compadres. She couldn’t admit that. Instead, she was hyperventilating because conservative students are inherently “vicious and vengeful.” They just are, apparently.

At the time, all tweeted live, it was a thing to behold. There she was, announcing her bravery for daring to associate, briefly, with college Republicans and other conservative students, none of whom were reported as doing anything hostile or untoward to their red-haired visitor, while adjacent buildings were being smashed and set on fire by her fellow lefties, whose recreational thuggery was deemed unworthy of criticism, or indeed acknowledgement, at least by Laurie.

The extent to which leftism entails displacement and projection, and a pathological unrealism, is, even now, quite striking.

Jonathan

No, they're Nazis minus the Joo hate.

Antifa certainly don't hate Jews, indeed very many Jews support them but they're absolutely not nazis:

WTP

1893: George "Bugs" Moran who thanklessly headed Chicago's North Side Gang was born. For his efforts battling Al Capone, seven of his gang members were gunned down (Bugs slept in that day) and he never fully recovered his underworld powers. He eventually left the area, quitting the gang entirely and reverting to petty crime such as mail fraud and robbery.

Darleen

Antifa certainly don't hate Jews

Guess what they think of Ben Shapiro and Dennis Prager -- actual religious Jews.

David

A rather dazed Andy Ngo talks about being assaulted.

Darleen

It's as if the movie Inherit the Wind had a different ending

David

It’s as if the movie Inherit the Wind had a different ending

And so we’ve gone from “The aboriginal population is primitive and unable to think rationally about things,” which is a sentiment to be denounced, and progressed to “We must treat the aboriginal population as if it were primitive and unable to think rationally about things.” Which, apparently, is something to be applauded.

Spiny Norman

Guess what they think of Ben Shapiro and Dennis Prager -- actual religious Jews.

I suppose that falls under the "I'm not anti-Semitic, I'm anti-Zionist" excuse.

Uma Thurmond's Feet

During the Civil Rights Era, the Supreme Court used the Constitution's Commerce Clause to force hotels to admit everyone regardless of race, creed, color, or national origin.

They need to apply the same principle to the Bill of Rights, when its employees are not allowed to talk to the press about anything:

"It should be noted that Zoe, who asked not to be identified by her real name because she was not authorized by her employer to speak to the press ..."

Farnsworth M Muldoon

The left tries to make Ngo a Smollett:"The Proud Boys did it".

David

“The Proud Boys did it”.

It was a weather balloon.

OJ

somehow deserving of assault by people with borderline personality disorders.

Assault isn't really something you would associate with people with borderline personality disorder – they find it hard to form stable personal relationships but certainly aren't particularly violent.

I think perhaps Darleen meant to refer to antisocial personality disorder...

David

…meant to refer to antisocial personality disorder...

I was thinking of the extremely polarised thinking, impulse control issues, wildly disproportionate anger, emotional bullying and manipulation, needing to cow others, etc., all of which seem commonplace at Antifa gatherings. In hindsight, antisocial personality disorder would be more apposite for some. That said, I’d be amazed if Antifa’s demographic didn’t include a remarkably high concentration of all cluster B disorders. It’s pretty much a signature.

Robert the Biker

I had heard a rumour (please God let it be true) that these antifuck scum had been planning to disrupt bike week at Sturgis.
Can you imagine it, 25,000 bikers, many of them ex combat vets, being told off by a couple of thousand smelly scumbags?
Pay to view would make a fortune!

pst314

Antifa personality disorder

Da

they find it hard to form stable personal relationships but certainly aren't particularly violent.

[gazes over rim of glass, shakes head dismissively]

H

the morally ludicrous Laurie Penny.

That. :-D

David

That.

You have to marvel at a woman who claims to be “fucking terrified” - not of the gang of masked lefties assaulting women for fun and setting buildings on fire, all just a few yards away - but of the non-leftwing people who preferred Donald Trump to Hillary Clinton, and with whom she’s taking refuge. And at the time, among Laurie’s Twitter groupies, this wasn’t regarded as pretentious or bizarre.

aelfheld

Antifa certainly don't hate Jews, indeed very many Jews support them but they're absolutely not nazis:

To quote the inimitable Douglas Adams, if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands.

David

An educator speaks. Apparently, Mr Ngo is a “fascist videographer.”

Harvardr

...that these antifuck scum had been planning to disrupt bike week at Sturgis.

Oh yeah, oh Hell yeah! I'd pay upwards of $50 for Pay-Per-View for that one.

Pst314

an educator speaks

So is Haaretz a communist organ or merely communist-sympathetic?

Jeff Wood

A couple of years ago, I recalled this chap, and predicted to myself what would eventually happen:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07-01/man-who-bravely-fought-islamic-terrorists-put-terror-watchlist-uk-govt

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Oh yeah, oh Hell yeah! I'd pay upwards of $50 for Pay-Per-View for that one.

The hell with that, get a concession to set up bleacher seats and really clean up.

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