David Thompson
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December 02, 2020

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Karl

“collaborating with outdoor clothing and equipment brand Berghaus”

I await their Gore-tex burqa with breathless anticipation.

Governor Squid

...with ethnic minorities often deterred from heading into the outdoors due to deep-rooted, complex barriers...

We know from mathematics that any complex barrier has a real component and an imaginary component. I'm willing to wager that a graph of this barrier would have a slope so steep as to be almost asymptotic.

Karl

deep-rooted, complex barriers

Well, those dry-stone wall stiles can be pretty challenging!

Governor Squid

I realize that Minnesota is a long way from Scotland (though Macalester college has a killer bagpipe corps), but I gotta say that if I saw Ms. Mahmood on a hiking path around these parts, I wouldn't give her a second glance. Hell, she could pull a Buff over her head in lieu of the burka and nobody would ever know the difference.

Now, if she's prostrate on the ground beside the path, then she's certainly going to have people making sure she's okay, and if she were a decent human being, she'd be grateful to receive the care and concern of strangers, no matter how pale their skin. But no: "sometimes I just want to enjoy my time outdoors and switch off." See, the thing about ostentatious displays of prayer is that, well, they draw attention. If she finds one of the pillars of her faith to be an occasional annoyance, she needs to understand that that's the whole point! Does she really understand so little about her own faith?

I'm reminded of the argument I had long ago with an Amish neighbor of mine in Pennsylvania. What started as a devotion to humility and modesty led to the shunning of any adornment or modern convenience that might be considered "fancy." Fair enough, but the resulting costume and lifestyle turned Amish country into the largest tourist destination in the mid-Atlantic. Maybe if you don't want to draw attention to yourself, don't go out of your way to draw attention to yourself, yes?

Anyways, forget about the Berghaus collaboration -- Buff has you covered (literally!) already.

David

It’s not entirely unlike me moving to, say, South Korea and then whining in a national Korean newspaper about how I’m being excluded from visiting Seoraksan National Park or Namiseom Island, on account of such places requiring some travel from whichever Korean city I’ve chosen to live in, and them not already having sufficient numbers of white Europeans striding about in a suitably affirming manner.

Put like that, it sounds a tad presumptuous.

Sporkatus

I admit I don't have as clear an idea of what *drives* the UK outdoorsman as I do the US outdoorsman, but it very often reflects a forceful personal independence. Like it or not, such personal independence is a highlight of socially-demeaned "whiteness", and very often not a hallmark of the Left's well-cultivated farms of social capital of whatever race.

People who settle in enclaves because they're close to people like them are a different cloth than people who settle a comfortable distance away from everyone because they don't like *anybody* all that much, really. Quiet self-sufficiency, strong personality, and resolve are to be encouraged only as facets, otherwise combined Those People might Get Their Own Ideas. A preference for solitude is right out.

Such a well-tamed population heading out beyond the suburbs and buying a house and a garden?
"Why would my happy pets leave me?"

So how to make sure a *herd* will perform an activity simulating independence? Make it the *herd* thing to do. Everyone else is doing it, you should too. The flirtation by the semi-idle semi-wealthy with the idea of *looking* like they are independent spirits puts the largest share of money into Outdoors Inc. It's a preexisting herd-like behavior tailor-made for adaptation, clearly.

What one must do is convince the favored pet of the merits of Performatively Being Outside, without all that icky independence. Unfortunately, when you actively recruit for Performative Minority, you get Performative Minority which is so Performative that it drives Regular Sane Minority away. I defy anyone to say that Ms. Mahmood's interest in the outdoors is as anything other than a venue for Being Seen To Be Muslim and to garner fashionable attention.

Such a mystery why "Act as entitled as a wealthy white twerp, but as an ethnic caricature version instead!" isn't appealing.

Sporkatus

...continued, in a fit of my own ego:

It is ironic that Ms. Mahmood mentions quietness and unwinding, because if it's not recitation, she's right on the verge of "getting it". However, things turn back around with refusing to recognize that the very uncommon is definitionally not normal, and that people standoffish enough to hike in the first place aren't going to... what, welcome her? When she's wearing a garment signed to indicate she is not the world's property and must be separated from it? Why indeed would anyone assume a person in a burqa wants to remain foreign to others?

In so doing, she is bringing a strangeness and unfamiliarity to people which disrupts their quietness and unwinding. She senses she should feel shame, because on some level she knows what she's done - but she's right to do it, you see. "It's not me that's odd - it's you!" she says, in a fit of solipsism and entitlement.

There's also a strangeness and solipsism to the intense feeling by the upper middle class leftist that everyone else who *is* as independent as he is must enjoy the same things in the same way. Everyone is alike, Brown Person. Brown Person, why do you not demonstrate to your fellow that you are Rugged and Have Time To Enjoy Your Leisure? Remember, Brown Person, your happiness is mandatory. I know just what will make you Happy.

...shades of the A.A. Milne poem Dormouse and the Doctor. "You can't possibly like geraniums and delphiniums, get some chrysanthemums in here on the double".

APL

An obvious solution presents itself that should satisfy everyone. Muslim only hiking groups. Time allotted for prayers, no chance of being exposed to non-halal foods, no unwanted glances from strangers, in fact no interactions with Kafirs at all. Ms. Mahmood has been handed a golden opportunity, Carpe Diem and all that. Wait...you mean you just wanted to whine? Never mind then.

sH2

So says the Guardian’s north of England correspondent,

I'm surprised they have one.

bobby b

" . . . (though Macalester college has a killer bagpipe corps) . . . "

If you've never woken early on a Saturday in Dupre Hall to learn that your next-door neighbor is a piper, you don't completely understand how appropriate the word "killer" is when referring to bagpipes.

bobby b

It seems to me that M. Parveen has made a complete and explicit legal admission that a brown person climbing a rock is the height of cultural appropriation.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

...deep-rooted, complex barriers...

Apparently this may not be an issue for some BAME.

WTP

“People look at me all the time...”

Yeah. Being 6'4", I know the feeling. Especially when traveling in Italy, or Japan, or the UK, or Mexico, or Ireland. You bastards.

David

It’s also worth noting that this supposed oppression doesn’t seem to affect all minorities. During my own jaunts into the nearby Peak District National Park, I routinely see East Asian people, often students, enjoying walks and the scenery. They don’t appear to be emotionally crushed by the awful whiteness of it all. The Other Half and I ran into one visiting East Asian chap, a dad with his young son, who was eager to share his appreciation for the landscape, which, to him, was very unusual. While chatting, I’m fairly confident he wasn’t being excluded by my pallor.

Sporkatus

Yeah. Being 6'4", I know the feeling. Especially when traveling...

Even I, at a mere 6'1" and change, found myself a slightly abnormal specimen in London. Wasn't really until I was in the north country that I stopped feeling like some kind of Half-Orc.

We won't even talk about South Korea.

Governor Squid

...the largest share of money into Outdoors Inc.

Here's the other thing that doesn't fit reality. The people who sell outdoorsy clothing and equipment and services are desperate to get kids away from their PlayStations and get parents to take their kids camping or hiking or boating or fishing or hunting or really anything outdoors. The idea that people who love the outdoors would discourage others from enjoying the outdoors is simply absurd.

Per David's experience in the Peak District, a love of nature and fresh air is the sort of thing that transcends other tribal markers.

I'm starting to suspect that this is less about making BAMEs go outside than it is about making white Grauniadiers feel guilty about, well, about everything.

Darleen

Oh, dear lord ... the "whiteness" virus is a lot more virulent than the Wuhan Lung Rot. The latest handwringing in America was just last July from ABC "News" that America's national parks face an existential crisis over race.

The navel gazing, racist stereotyping and the Herculean efforts to tie unrelated incidents to "Where are the brown people at?" in the outdoors is just insane ...

Advocates like Williams and Tariq say they hope the moment since George Floyd's death in police custody brings attention to systemic racism in the outdoors as well as other parts of society and translates into a long-term change in attitudes and behavior.

and

Many advocates say public information about parks and outdoor activities are not tailored to communities of color. Posted signs, for example, are mostly in English rather than Spanish. Park ranger uniforms that resemble what is worn by law enforcement are intimidating to some immigrants and minorities in light of documented cases of profiling.

YOU WYPIPOO MAKE ME FEEL UNSAFE WITH YOUR MERE PRESENCE!!! ATTEND ME!!!

cayleygraph2015
The British countryside remains a distinctly white and often intimidating place for BAME communities.
Despite our best efforts, snowfalls are not just a thing of the past.
Governor Squid

...documented cases of profiling.

In my experience, the rednecks litter the campsite with the empty cans of fifty beers they've consumed, while the Hmong litter the campsite with the remains of fifty squirrels they've skinned and gutted.

Both are distasteful and unacceptable, but at a certain point a difference in degree becomes a difference in kind.

Daniel Ream

Some offhand observations:

My girlfriend is of Caribbean ancestry, although she was born and raised in Canada in the same suburb I grew up in. Whereas I was thrown out the back door at 10:30 am every Saturday and told "no more cartoons, come back at dinner time", thus necessitating lengthy explorations of the undeveloped city property adjacent to the suburb, she was raised on a steady diet of Fear of Leaving the House. Getting her to go and do outdoorsy things is a constant challenge as she vastly prefers living in a city. Having seen firsthand her entire family's reticence to go outside I can say there's some kind of cultural standard at play, but it's subtle.

this supposed oppression doesn’t seem to affect all minorities.

The area I live in has a nearby escarpment, which means a lot of public parks with waterfalls, hiking trails, etc. Over the last five to ten years, the massive exodus of people from the nearby expensive city means visiting one of these parks on a weekend has gone from a quiet amble where you might see a dozen other people, to a density of one person for every ten square feet of walkable terrain. And all of them are of Indian/Pakistani ethnicity.

Amish country [...] Maybe if you don't want to draw attention to yourself, don't go out of your way to draw attention to yourself, yes?

I grew up in Old Order Mennonite[1] country and when the local farming town turned into a tourist trap they closed their businesses and relocated them. They're pretty serious about the isolation.

"Sometimes, prayer times fall during a walk so I might have to stop and pray, which can cause more unwanted attention and stares. It shouldn’t be something to be gawked at."

Muslim prayer involves ritual washing beforehand, and combined with the actual prayer can take upwards of ten minutes. I'm guessing the other people would like to get on with the f*cking hike rather than stand around waiting. If you think this is a racism thing, try interrupting a hike to take a ten minute phone call and see what kind of looks you get.


[1] Basically the same thing as Amish[2]
[2] Yes, yes, I do actually know the subtle differences between the various Anabaptist sects but from here it's all just porkpie hats

J West

I was the only non-white person in a hijab on the entire walk and I just felt so out of place, so I decided to never return.”

I is you who felt out of place because you don't like being among white people.

Screw you. And don't come back.

Steve E

Because she can walk up and down hills. Among white people, even.

Stunning and brave! Someone had to say it.

Monika

It’s not entirely unlike me moving to, say, South Korea and then whining in a national Korean newspaper about how I’m being excluded...

If for the past 50 years there had been a psychological warfare campaign where the historical crimes and moral failures of the Koreans were constantly being brought into the foreground and given emotional salience, if newspaper editorials on the one hand harped on about how scientifically invalid and morally problematic the entire idea of "koreanness" was, and on the other hand celebrated the imminent demographic erasure of the Korean people, then people might end up thinking it's just a peninsula, and why should anyone have special rights to a peninsula on the basis of their ancestry, especially not such a morally deficient people as the little-Korea-ers.

David

Previously and somewhat related.

Jay Guevara

An obvious solution presents itself that should satisfy everyone. Muslim only hiking groups.

Ideally in a Muslim-only country. E.g., wherever she came from. Problem solved.

aelfheld

Is it me or has 'journalism' become a sort of Mad Libs™ with bylines & colour photography?

The Phantom

Once upon a time I was invited to a company white-water rafting trip. (Ottawa river, it was awesome.)

A fellow worker of Caribbean extraction who was also invited declined, on the grounds that white water was for white people. Because only white people are crazy enough to go out in it voluntarily. Something about mad dogs and Englishmen.

Dude missed out big-time. Because what's more fun that being pitched out of a raft in a raging rapids? (I conceded his point at the time, we are all crazy.)

Cloudbuster

Maybe she'd be more comfortable if she moved to a country where a majority of the women walk around in hijabs. It seems rather more onerous to try to convince an entire nation to cater to you. I don't see a lot of Western women going to conservative Muslim countries and demanding to be allowed to walk around in short-shorts and halter tops.

Steve E

Maybe she'd be more comfortable if she moved to a country where a majority of the women walk around in hijabs.

Where's the fun in that? No virtue signalling. No cross to bear (excuse the mixed metaphor). And, most importantly, no one to antagonize.

asiaseen

I don't see a lot of Western women going to conservative Muslim countries and demanding to be allowed to walk around in short-shorts and halter tops.

That's because, if they are lucky, they are arrested. If not lucky, they are stoned.

Smallish Bees

We teach students this truism: "When you're 20, you care what everyone thinks; when you're 40, you stop caring what everyone thinks; and when you're 60, you realize no one was ever thinking about you in the first place."

Adolescents haven't yet learned that the hard stares of others are usually them staring into the middle distance, obsessing about their own private troubles, and you just happen to be in the way.

It's a shame that no one will ever correct Ms. Mahmoud, and she'll go through life being like one of those sensitive plants (Mimosa pudica), which takes personally the tiniest touch.

Sporkatus

white water was for white people. Because only white people are crazy enough to go out in it voluntarily. Something about mad dogs and Englishmen.

Come now, you're perfectly aware that white people have no culture, only an infective yet nebulous whiteness. Any such cultural norm is all in your head and/or omnipresent and evil, oppressing you as much as you oppress others with it. Rafts are patriarchy, that's what it is.

RNB

Trying to remember where I saw the 'study' that had discovered that Persons of Color did not go to [U.S.] national parks because trees remind them of lynchings...

pst314

Many advocates say public information about parks and outdoor activities are not tailored to communities of color. Posted signs, for example, are mostly in English rather than Spanish.

Or ghettospeak.

Dexter

"Ethnic minorities often deterred from heading into the outdoors due to deep-rooted, complex barriers". Truly a fancy way of saying THEY JUST DON'T LIKE IT. Brown people just don't like the outdoors, at least not in countries with cooler climates. Which is great; they'll continue to bitch about structural barriers to feeling included in National Parks they don't actually want to visit from their safe urban ghettos where I can't hear them.

pst314

Brown people just don't like the outdoors, at least not in countries with cooler climates.

I don't know if it is accurate to characterize the dislike as being climate-related. However, I do know that in America a dislike of outdoor recreation seems to be very common among native-born black people, and the dislike goes so far as disparaging it as "white people" stuff. (Sort of like doing well in school is "acting white"? /wink) I tend to attribute it to the fact that such a large fraction of blacks live in central urban areas and reflexively hate anything they see as being "white". This is far from a universal pattern but it is common. On the other hand it does seem to be slowly changing.

pst314

An obvious solution presents itself that should satisfy everyone. Muslim only hiking groups. Time allotted for prayers, no chance of being exposed to non-halal foods, no unwanted glances from strangers, in fact no interactions with Kafirs at all.

The easiest way for her to find that solution is to move to, say, Pakistan.

asiaseen

So says the Guardian’s north of England correspondent,

I'm surprised they have one.

Maybe they haven't totally forgotten their Manchester roots

asiaseen

The Great Outdoors

To be a little bit fair, there is a significant number of whites who don't care for the outdoor life. It's a townie thing - white, black or in between, urban dwellers don't understand and are are frightened of the countryside.

WTP

It's a townie thing - white, black or in between, urban dwellers don't understand and are are frightened of the countryside.

I've known New Yorkers (and TBF, a couple of my own quasi-city Pittsburgh relatives) freak out at the idea of me walking into my back yard and picking an orange or grapefruit off my own tree and eating it WITHOU IT BEING PROCESSED IN A FACTORY!!! Similar for gigged frogs (though not my thing) or other wild animals.

anon a mouse

Posted signs, for example, are mostly in English rather than Spanish.

Or ghettospeak.

"What it is Big Momma, I dug her rap"

George

It's a townie thing - white, black or in between, urban dwellers don't understand and are are frightened of the countryside.

I don't know what side of the Atlantic you're on, but my 'old world' experience is very different. Historically, appreciation of the beauty of nature (as opposed to its utility) is something that emerged with urbanisation. Most people I meet and chat with on hill walks are townies, not necessarily from big cities but frequently so.

After all, if the countryside is where you earn your living, then you don't need to 'get away' to the countryside when you have time off; you spend every working day tramping around fields so it's probably the last thing you'd view as a leisure activity (for the same reason that professional fishermen tend not to spend their days off messing around on boats).

This can lead to culture clashes between farmers who are trying to run a business and ramblers who don't understand (or pretend not to understand) that you can't just walk through a field of crops or scare someone's sheep. Happily, compromises that work for everyone are usually found.

NJH

Sporkatus

white water was for white people. Because only white people are crazy enough to go out in it voluntarily. Something about mad dogs and Englishmen.

Did a stretch of rapids on the Zambezi, below Vic. Falls. Brown people(nay black)very much in charge there and when they said, "Paddle harder you laggards," we white-water white rafters would oblige without demur.

George

I forgot to mention my other point. Because appreciation of nature as something beautiful (rather than useful or maybe scary or maybe just there) is a relatively recent historical phenomenon in the West (East Asia has its own historical trajectory), we shouldn't be surprised that it hasn't emerged in many cultures and sub-cultures. If you've ever gone to somewhere like Kruger Park in South Africa, you'll have been struck by how few black visitors you see and that's in a country where black people are the overwhelming majority of the population and many black people have a comfortable Western standard of living (albeit a minority of black people but more than enough in absolute numbers to be noticed if they went to safari parks).

Even in East Asia, while there is a long tradition of nature painting, for example, sticking on the hiking boots and heading for the hills is only beginning to catch on.

'Brown' people aren't being excluded by anyone; they just aren't into it.

fnord

'Brown' people aren't being excluded by anyone; they just aren't into it

Behold a universal truth. Just a liar making bank off of whyte (probably female) chumps.

Jonathan

It seems to me that a large part of the problem is that Africans and Asians who live in Britain tend to live in Towns and Cities amongst other people who look and behave just like them. When they travel to the countryside, however, they are forced to confront the fact that they are a member of a minority ethnic group. This, naturally, makes them feel uncomfortable; after all, I wouldn't expect to feel at home in, say, Japan or Somalia.

We also have the usual demands that: ' Things must change!'. Why, exactly? Why should the British have to change their habits, traditions and infrastructure to suit Africans and Asians better?

The whole article reeks of arrogance and entitlement.

Horace Dunn

The whole article reeks of arrogance and entitlement.

Yup. But then arrogant and entitled is very much the Guardian house style.

Sporkatus

Brown people(nay black)very much in charge there

They must have developed an unconscious whiteness and have been oppressing themselves. How tragic.

/s

Truthfully, I was ceding that damn fool reckless outdoorsing of the "mad dogs and Englishmen" kind as The Phantom was referring to is often a province of white folk and their culture(s), but that's the thing about anything typical to one culture or another, isn't it? Meant to be shared, with no "appreciating culture" license needed.

I also remarked upthread on (as others better put it, "townies") and those people who form farms of social capital of whatever race. Your adventurous men on the Zambezi would be a different mentality entirely than any of those.

[+]

Do they have 'bastions of brownness' in Nigeria?

David

Yup. But then arrogant and entitled is very much the Guardian house style.

They seem determined to encourage precisely the kind of whiny self-absorption and practised victimhood that, in the real world, tends to irritate and repel.

Zionist Overlord #73

It's incredible that there exists such a thing as tourism, given how emotionally nerve-wracking it evidently is to hike around places where you are not part of the ethnic majority.

David

Heh.

Squires

I don't know what side of the Atlantic you're on, but my 'old world' experience is very different.

On the Freedom side of the Atlantic it’s a bit different. Rural areas are where you’ll find domiciles decorated with numerous carvings, statuettes, and paintings of bucks, does, owls, bears, etcetera. And wall decorations and rugs made out of nature’s inhabitants as well. At least in certain regions country folk will also prefer watching nature documentaries over, say, a football game.

...freak out at the idea of me walking into my back yard and picking an orange or grapefruit off my own tree and eating it...

About a dozen years ago I was out in the woods behind my aunt’s place with my cousin and his then-girlfriend, who was from town. A certain familiar aroma came into the air, and the girl asked why it smelled like something had died. My cousin just grinned and said, “Welcome to the country!”

Why should the British have to change their habits, traditions and infrastructure to suit Africans and Asians better?<

Because getting you to change who you are is an exercise of power.

Lancastrian Oik

Yeah. Being 6'4", I know the feeling. Especially when traveling in Italy, or Japan, or the UK, or Mexico, or Ireland. You bastards.

It’s not your height, it’s your taste in shirts.

WTP

Hey, the shirts may be ugly but they look good on me.

WTP

On the Freedom side of the Atlantic it’s a bit different.

This is why getting older sucks. At one time I am sure I would have understood what this means.

Horace Dunn

They seem determined to encourage precisely the kind of whiny self-absorption and practised victimhood that, in the real world, tends to irritate and repel.

It truly is an oddity. It's the sort of approach to life that one might expect from children or adolescents, but not from supposed adults.

There's also the bizarre inconsistencies. The Guardian loves to tell us how the most laudable aspect of British society is its diversity, and they upbraid us if we're not sensitive enough towards different cultures with their varying outlooks and preoccupations. We must value and celebrate these differences because they make life so much more vibrant.

But then, a seeming cultural difference like this one - people from ethnic minorities are less interested in walking in the countryside - has to be viewed as insupportable. Why? What's the problem exactly? Where's the harm?

Uma Thurmond's Feet

It’s also worth noting that this supposed oppression doesn’t seem to affect all minorities. During my own jaunts into the nearby Peak District National Park, I routinely see East Asian people, often students, enjoying walks and the scenery.

I'm reminded of my visit to the shores of Lake Erie. We were visiting the local university with our son and decided to drive north to see the lake.

There, along the stretch of what can best be described as beach, was a diverse swath of humanity out for a fun day at the shore. Families of all races and hues, and I would have had to take a census to figure out which race dominated. Best I could tell, they were all minorities.

Except for one thing, they were all families, with old people, parents, kids of various ages, and they were all having a blast. I wouldn't say primitive, but my weird brain kicked up an image of families doing this by the lake for generations, thousands of years even. What group of people, seeing a calm body of fresh water, wouldn't want to take the opportunity to strip, wash up, splash, pile sand on the shore, and eat and drink? It's a universal indulgence of pleasure, a momentary glimpse of heaven.

TomJ
At least in certain regions country folk will also prefer watching nature documentaries over, say, a football game.

Given what passes for football over in Leftpondia, I can't say I'm surprised...

Quint&Jessel Sea of Azof Bly, UK

I was informed by A-A coworkers that white people used to go out Sundays to have a picnic, and "picnic" means "pick a n----r," and white families would grab black people up and hang them, and then have their lunch under the tree, and that's why white people like to go outdoors still.

pst314

At least in certain regions country folk will also prefer watching nature documentaries over, say, a football game.

Given what I've heard about football hooligans, would the narrator of a football documentary use such cliches as "cycle of life"?

Roscoe

And why do so few virile young black men drive minivans?

Asking for a used car dealer friend.

pst314

I was informed by A-A coworkers that white people used to go out Sundays to have a picnic, and "picnic" means "pick a n----r,"

It's amazing how many black Americans believe this sort of b*llsh*t.

pst314

The White Outdoors

Is it racist to refer to Canada and Alaska as the Great White North?

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