David Thompson
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June 22, 2021

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bill

“fulsomely”
“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” It seems apparent that the members of this board definitely didn't previously participate in any honours English programme.

David

“fulsomely”

Heh. Truth will out.

Squires

It seems apparent that the members of this board definitely didn't previously participate in any honours English programme.

Though they may have intended to use it by the older definition from the Evil Days of Evil Maximum Evil Whiteness, the modern meaning is perfectly fitting to what they are actually doing.

David

“fulsomely”

That people entrusted with the education of children failed to register the obvious connotations – say, of insincerity, or of something “aesthetically, morally, or generally offensive” – doesn’t exactly bolster confidence in their abilities.

decnine

They don't need our steenking confidence

David

They don’t need our steenking confidence

No, indeed. In a saner world, these creatures would be chased from the village. With nail guns.

Frank

With nail guns.

Harsh, but fair.

pst314

Harsh, but fair.

True, although it's always a shame to miss an opportunity for tar and feathers.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

I'll see your elimination of honors courses, and raise you an elimination of reading writing, and math requirements, “with the goal of ensuring that the processes and outcomes related to the requirements for high school diplomas are equitable, accessible and inclusive.”

David

“equitable, accessible and inclusive.”

As noted in a recent thread, and many times before, if you rely on “disparate impact” as grounds for invoking “inequity” or “structural racism,” and demanding special favours and exemptions, where you end up can be alarming in its consequences and moral perversity.

And yet this, seemingly more than anything, currently animates our progressive betters.

Charman Meow

The sole purpose of education is to ensure the solidarity of the cadres to the principles of revolution.

Charman Meow

discourage students who are proficient at math from taking calculus any earlier than their classmates

In my high school, I knew a guy who read and digested math texts like they were pulp fiction. He went on to MIT and in 4 years had a BSc in Math, and Masters degrees in Math and Chemical Engineering. I have difficulty imagining how one could constrain the intellectual energy of such a person by making him study topics in lockstep with others which he can polish off in a weekend.

My sister's ex studied electrical engineering as a hobby in high school. When he went to University he was bored by the prerequisite classes which he called "elementary review". After dropping out before his second year, he invented a computerized blood analysis gizmo (this was WAAAY back in the 1960s), set up a manufacturing company and made himself wealthy.

How will the Political/Education Establishment prevent kids from learning outside of the lockstep classroom?

Pol Pot had a solution for the brainiacs of Cambodian society...

David

I have difficulty imagining how one could constrain the intellectual energy of such a person by making him study topics in lockstep with others which he can polish off in a weekend.

It’s actually quite easy to demoralise bright children, and the brighter they are, the easier it tends to be. Just bore them and frustrate them in an environment where preciousness is ideologically problematic and often results in social disapproval, from both peers and educators. Five days a week, for a few months, maybe less.

ComputerLabRat

I'll see your elimination of honors courses, and raise you an elimination of reading writing, and math requirements

And yet these "graduates" are supposedly able to reliably produce $15/hr work? Uneducated, undisciplined people being given $15/hr, and you can't get rid of them if they don't show up for work, or fail to perform the work satisfactorily. It's almost like a thinly-disguised UBI.

I'm reminded of the movie Gattaca, but it might be another movie I'm thinking of, because in Gattacca, they solved the equity thing by genetically engineering (most) everyone for perfection. In the present world, it is impossible to bring everyone up to Michael Jordan's abilities for playing basketball, but you can maim everyone in order to ensure equitable play at the lowest ability level. Why is it ok to allow those with physical gifts to pursue excellence in that field, while those with mental gifts are maimed in the name of equity? Are they saying that blacks can only excel at sports, but aren't smart enough for honors courses, or in Oregon, any courses whatsoever? That seems like a pretty racist stereotype to me.

WTP

It's like living in a time line where no one ever wrote the story Harrison Burgeron. Y'all have heard of it, yes? Or did I do one of those damn quantum leap things again?

Darleen

How will the Political/Education Establishment prevent kids from learning outside of the lockstep classroom?

The handful of extremely bright may just end up skipping most of high school and go straight to STEM at university level. They are bored, too, by regular Advanced Placement classes.

But the bright who benefit from AP will be cut down via boredom and a relentless stream of disapproval from the Equity Squad.

It's like living in a time line where no one ever wrote the story Harrison Burgeron.

I find myself referencing Diana Moon Glampers more than ever.

Steve E

The handful of extremely bright may just end up skipping most of high school and go straight to STEM at university level.

Until STEM programs become so woke it will be impossible to learn anything practical without becoming complicit in the big lie.

aelfheld

'Equity' ≈ 'lowest common denominator'

Sam

Not satisfied with screwing up most children's education, they aim to be more inclusive in their malicious incompetence.

Though perhaps we should encourage this radical egalitarianism in education as an accelerationist evolution towards full Montessori. What could be more inclusive than all ages in the same classroom?

aelfheld

Harrison Bergeron

https://videa.hu/videok/nagyvilag/2081-2009-short-movie-full-kisfilm-mozi-B07R84IwGrud6oAe

David

‘Equity’ ≈ ‘lowest common denominator’

Or, “Equality of outcome regardless of inputs.”

Sam

I've enrolled my son in a Christian private school despite (1) not being Christian and (2) being a cheapskate. The decision was not easy and I'm concerned about a some of the things he will be exposed to, but crap like this that pops up nationally and locally every week only helps bolster that choice. I only wish more parents had the luxury of at least choosing the flavor of sh!t sandwich the education-industrial complex offers up.

Felicity

Beyond parody. The tweeter is right, Hollywood is doomed, and as David says "leftists project".

https://twitter.com/nayadontgiveaf/status/1407144220167606279?s=20

Sam

Beyond parody.

LOL, the confederate flag soap dispenser was a nice touch.

It was hilarious to see the Karen meme hit the stratosphere last year since it perfectly captured the spirit of our little enforcers of statist dogma. It was quickly co-opted by the black grievance mongers, of course, so Karens could safely scold one of their own sub-categories while maintaining their place atop the social hierarchy.

WTP

Yeah. You’re gonna wanna keep an eye on that Christian...”Christian” school as well there Sam. At least in the US they getting all Wokeywoke as well.

Sam

Thanks WTP, but the wokeness is the least concerning aspect of this school, hence my parting with money that should be spent on a sportscar. =)

Though one must always keep an eye on those entrusted with children's well-being.

George

'Equity' ≈ 'lowest common denominator'

This is completely OT but I have a real problem with the 'lowest common denominator' metaphor. Don't forget that the lowest common denominator will necessarily be at least as high as the highest of the numbers that it's divisible by.

It seems to me that 'highest common factor' fits the bill a lot better. But there's obviously something about the vibe given off by the words 'lowest' and 'common' that makes 'lowest common denominator' sound appropriate...

Sonny Wayz

Heinlein had an almost throw-away line in one of his novels, where, because those with Bachelor's degrees earned more, everybody in California got a Bachelor's degree.

I think it was set in one of his 'Crazy Years' novels.

Remember the 'Al Gore or the Unabomber?' quiz? How hard would it be to come up with a 'Heinlein or Reality?' version?

Burnsie

malicious incompetence.

Ms. Jennifer Katz certainly puts both elements on display when she asserts that honors programs perpetuate "systemic racism" while casually smearing the parents and students who defend them.

Malicious incompetence. Yep, that nails her contribution to the discussion.

ccscientist

It is not just black kids that set the bar low. You have low IQ kids of all races as well as hoodlums who simply do not want to do any work (yes, white ones too). I hung out with some back in the day. Lots of kids will not and cannot take physics or calculus in high school, therefore it all must be abolished. Just give them all a diploma at 15 and save everyone the money.

David

Just give them all a diploma at 15 and save everyone the money.

I’ll just leave this here, I think.

ComputerLabRat

It's like living in a time line where no one ever wrote the story Harrison Burgeron.

That must be what I was thinking of, not Gattaca. I knew there was something that I had read/heard/watched that was about forcibly making everyone equal. Equity - I am loathing that word more and more.

Uma Thurmond's Feet

Just one weird data point I'll leave here:

Child went through high school. Good school district. I sacrificed to get there.

He got A's. He showed promise. During the end of his junior year, I started to realize just how much promise he held when Yale sent him a letter encouraging him to apply. This was a few years ago, understand, so I was much more impressed. Now, I realize they're gaming the U.S. News ratings by seeking as many applications as possible to look exclusive.

But, still. His SAT score was 20 points below the max. His ACT score was 1 below the maximum. He took the ASVAB test the military gives, and it was so high he could have punched his own ticket.

For the next year, I worked to find a college for him. He seemed cool with it, and we went to various schools. We're poor, but with his numbers he could get nearly a free ride, and get into a technical field that could pay well.

When we have visited the schools and made the applications, he had been accepted by a eight or nine of them, from state schools, to exclusive schools. We crunched the numbers, sought his input (he was oddly unenthusiastic, but that was his default behavior so we didn't see it as a sign), and a school was chosen.

He lasted for less than one semester. Bombed out, at a school which prided itself on keeping kids engaged for the first school year.

Turned out he didn't want to go to school. He did the work because he felt he had to. But once he was on his own, he stopped caring.

He's back home now, working on a morning crew cleaning a factory. He writes computer code because he's interested. He applied for an apprenticeship program through a union, scored high, but didn't land one. He's talking about going to community college and taking programming courses, and transferring to the local state school after a couple of years.

He seems happy, and that makes us happy, and while I wish he could have gone on, I'd rather he find work that he can do and will do rather than do something he hates (he knows this, too).

In the end, I wonder if genetics won out. He comes from a long line of blue-collar workers and farmers, people who go to work and when they're done spend time doing what they want to do. I only hopes our culture will let him do that after we're gone.

pst314

Heinlein had an almost throw-away line in one of his novels, where, because those with Bachelor's degrees earned more, everybody in California got a Bachelor's degree.

I think it was set in one of his 'Crazy Years' novels.

I'm pretty sure that was Friday.

Remember the 'Al Gore or the Unabomber?' quiz? How hard would it be to come up with a 'Heinlein or Reality?' version?

Depressingly easy, I think.

Darleen

He's talking about going to community college and taking programming courses, and transferring to the local state school after a couple of years.

All college kids have the same slate of general ed units they have to take, whether CC or University. A student may actually get better teachers at CC because they are usually actual professors rather than the Teacher's Assistants that teach university freshmen & sophomores. And, besides it being easier to transfer to a 4 year in the junior year, there are a lot of professional/vocational careers that only want an AA prior to starting the specific program (e.g. nursing, radiological technology)

Geezer

Robby Soave wrote these words:
"The board had previously eliminated the high school honors English program, and math and science will now get the ax as well."

You purported to quote those words like this:
"The board had previously eliminated the high school honours English programme, and maths and science will now get the axe as well."

Does your copy-and-paste function automatically add extraneous letters to American words, or do you do that manually?

Farnsworth M Muldoon

...and as David says "leftists project".

Projection, and/or reflecting life in the writers' hamlets east of I95 and west of I5. Here in the deep South, in a tiny town, in an upper middle class neighborhood, a third - about the same as all of tiny town - of the homeowners here are black, and no one gives a good god damn, and damn near no one in the state does either. I am seriously tired of their BS notions about what goes on in real America.

Meanwhile, and totally unrelated, I am old enough to remember the topless bar at the O-Club at Ft. Benning and elsewhere, also old enough to remember when they were banned. Good news, everyone, the good times are back, for "morale, cohesion, and readiness", don't you know.

David

Does your copy-and-paste function automatically add extraneous letters to American words…?

I wish. It would save time. And having both British and American spellings in the same post would be a step too far.

Geezer

And having both British and American spellings in the same post would be a step too far.

I managed to include both in my comment.
If you purport to quote something, you should quote it verbatim, not change it.

Sam

you should quote it verbatim, not change it.

This guy. Next you'll criticize the complimentary lint hanging off the complimentary sausages I bet.

ComputerLabRat

When did Americans lose the e in axe? I must be old, or read too many old British writers, or didn't go to regular grade or high school, but I never spell axe without the e. It just looks...naked without it. Like the word forgot to put its pants on.

This whole equity business seems like it's designed to perpetuate old racist stereotypes while pretending to be doing blacks a favor. The assumption seems to be they are too stupid to read, write, do math, show up on time, or do anything productive except for certain sports, but we can's say that because it would be racist (which it is), but they are going to act and make policy as if those racist stereotypes are true.

These policies aren't going to affect the wealthy of any color much - they'll send their kids to private schools, or hire tutors to teach them at home, and it won't affect those of any color with stable marriages/home lives who will just homeschool their kids or shuffle the budget for private schooling. I don't see parents from competitive cultures sitting back and leaving their kids in these government daycare centers.

Mags

but they are going to act and make policy as if those racist stereotypes are true.

That.

LW

I never spell axe without the e.

Same here.

ruralcounsel

This is how public education becomes increasingly irrelevant and any parents worth their salt find private alternatives that are still willing to educate their children.

Maureen Matthew

I'm so ashamed to be a Canadian. I recall a study from some years ago one why kids leave school - while there were the typical reasons such as unstable families, lack of interest in school, bad behaviour, there were also a significant number of kids who were smart (super smart in some cases) but were just bored to tears with the curriculum, the teachers (in which the student knew more than the teacher and the teacher resented it). These were the kids that were attracted to IB, AP programs.

My niece was not a brilliant student, but smart - she was bored to tears with the regular curriculum and looked into the IB program at her high school with a focus on maths and sciences. Her guidance counsellor (the most useless position in the school) recommended against it because the homework would cut into her social life. She didn't pay attention and was able to do the course work during her free periods in high school - rarely did she have to take work home. It gave her a huge step up at university and she graduated with a B.Sc in Computer Science and now works as a software developer for an international company. BUT she could have been one of the kids that dropped out.

Sonny Wayz

"Next you'll criticize the complimentary lint hanging off the complimentary sausages I bet."

Oh. I'd always assumed they were just *very* large caterpillars, what with the way they move and so on.

pst314

This guy. Next you'll criticize the complimentary lint hanging off the complimentary sausages I bet.

If he does, I'll volunteer to set his coat on fire.

Geezer

When did Americans lose the e in axe?

Start here.

PiperPaul

When did Americans lose the e in axe?

Maybe when it turned into a verb; don't axe me.

pst314

I never spell axe without the e.

Likewise. Although I have seen that alternate spelling on rare occasions.

Far more common in the US is "plow" instead of "plough". The latter must surelly be the preferred English spelling, due to their fetish for the "ou" vowel combination. :-) More seriously, I understand that the original, medieval, pronunciation of "plough" matched that spelling.

ComputerLabRat

Maybe when it turned into a verb; don't axe me.

I see what you did there. I may be misremembering recent American history, but I could have sworn there was talk back in the 80s? 90s? to make Ebonics a valid language in schools. I don't remember it getting much traction, unlike this equity manure, or CRT, or antiracism, which are all taking off like wildfire.

pst314

I may be misremembering recent American history, but I could have sworn there was talk back in the 80s? 90s? to make Ebonics a valid language in schools.

You are not misremembering.

Sam

Reflexively linking to a dictionary definition when logic or theory is being discussed is not very persuasive, in my inestimably humble opinion.

anon a mouse

"make Ebonics a valid language"

Oh Stewardess...

Baceseras

I understand that the original, medieval, pronunciation of "plough" matched that spelling.

Things ought not be that tough though.

Ed Snack

Ou, I see what you did there…

Sam Duncan

“Heinlein had an almost throw-away line in one of his novels, where, because those with Bachelor's degrees earned more, everybody in California got a Bachelor's degree.”

That was, quite literally, the Blair government's education policy, praised to the rafters and still celebrated by All the Right People. And anyone who dares to suggest that it might be a bad idea because that's not really how it w... YOU HATE THE POOR AND WANT THEM TO DIE, YOU TORY MONSTER!!!111!!1!!!

David

there were also a significant number of kids who were smart… but were just bored to tears with the curriculum,

The pace at which learning happens is important. If a lesson is unfolding much too slowly for someone, if new information is barely trickling out, with endless delays and interruptions, boredom and frustration can be hard to avoid. If someone needs to work at a certain speed, anything less can be demoralising.

the teachers… resented it

I remember, as a teenager, talking to my form teacher and head of year about the phenomenon above. I was told, with a certain air of triumph, that my education wasn’t about what I wanted. It was, I was told, for the benefit of society, and therefore, by implication, I should shut the hell up. Much as educators often like to think of themselves as saintly creatures, this is not always the case.

David

Given the routine unrealism of many educational conceits, and given the dogmatic and quite ludicrous assumptions of many leftist educators and educational administrators, and leftist academics, and leftist politicians responsible for schools, it seems to me that the parents of bright children, and the children themselves, should be wary of institutions where such people exert leverage.

Felicity

OT, but speaking of diverse things, in this case Covid. The headline in the local rag this afternoon tells us "What we know about Sydney's 'long jumping' Delta variant. This has, of course, lead to the Dear Leader of WA closing the border to anyone from NSW.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/nsw/what-we-know-about-sydney-s-long-jumping-delta-variant-20210623-p583jb.html?utm_content=TOP_STORIES&list_name=04591311-40EF-4941-9DE3-3E4B743D8CF8&promote_channel=edmail&utm_campaign=pm-news-watoday&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=2021-06-23&mbnr=MjAzNDgxOTA&instance=2021-06-23-15-41-AWST&jobid=29315037

WTP

Well given that you live in a "free" country where you can be fined for leaving your car unlocked with the windows open, can anything surprise you?

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/nsw/lawyer-has-charge-of-leaving-car-unlocked-and-windows-down-dismissed-20210621-p582uy.html

Karl

Sydney's 'long jumping' Delta variant

That whole article is just fucking depressing. From the ovine commenters ("Caught a train to the city 4 person in my carriage were wearing no masks."), to the thickies ("A virus that can be transmitted "fleetingly" just by walking past the infected person ? Sounds like science fiction...") and then the strangely obtuse article itself.
What is a Delta variant. Is that the one that came from India? Why not call it the fucking Indian variant then? So we'd all know what it meant.

But then what to make of this statement:
"Evidence suggests it is substantially more transmissible than the Alpha variant, which was already more transmissible than the virus that came originally out of Wuhan."

Surely the "Alpha" variant is the Wuhan virus? Is that subtly different than the "virus that originally came out of Wuhan"?

And we're apparently already up to a Kappa variant. It's almost as if they don't want anyone to be able to figure out what the fuck is going on!
Almost.

pst314

the teachers (in which the student knew more than the teacher and the teacher resented it).

If only teachers were hired based on their knowledge of the subjects to be taught, rather than the degree of their indoctrination in Education School Dogma.

pst314

Her guidance counsellor (the most useless position in the school)

Did anybody on this thread have a guidance counselor who gave very good advice?

Farnsworth M Muldoon

"Long Jumping", "jabs", "Fauchi Ouchi". If they get anymore infantile with this nonsense they'll have to use coloring books, if they aren't already.

"...with transmission occurring at Bondi Junction Westfield among people who CCTV showed had only passed each other.

What utter bullshit, unless you tracked every single movement of all those people, and those of everyone they might have passed, for the last 10 days there is no way in hell you could prove that. Indeed, later that same article...

Of course, this is not always the case: the eastern suburbs man known for visiting many barbecue stores last month was infected with the Delta variant and transmitted it to only his partner.

Oh. Sometimes not "long jumping", only playing hopscotch with a single square. Damn clever that virus, maybe it was its day off.

Meanwhile, according to the same site, there have been a whopping [rereads gobsmacked] 31 whole cases in NSW out of 8 million.

“We are in the midst of a very serious outbreak of a very contagious variant of the virus,” Ms Berejiklian said.

Someone needs a dictionary. From the hair-on-fire article comments, it is hard to tell whether the reporters or "authorities" are more irresponsible in getting facts out, but well done with the fear mongering.

Maureen Matthew

Reply to David's comment -

The pace at which learning happens is important. If a lesson is unfolding much too slowly for someone, if new information is barely trickling out, with endless delays and interruptions, boredom and frustration can be hard to avoid. If someone needs to work at a certain speed, anything less can be demoralising.

The pandemic has produced a interesting result - home schooling. My neighbour's sister has three kids - 9, 11, and 15 - which she had to home school with the 'guidance' of the school. She was very worried, because in her words, her kids 'on their best days were just average'. Initially the kids got through their assigned work by noon and she was harassing them that they must of missed stuff - they didn't. As the 9 year old noted, most of her day was spent drawing because the teacher covered the work so slowly so that that dumb kids could keep up. Her mother remanded her not to refer to her classmates as dumb. The 9 year old reply was straight to the point - 'That's nice mummy, but they are dumb" That family is now seriously considering home schooling the kids - the mum works as a admin assistant and summarizes her job as taking care of men who can't seem to get where they need to be and her view is why is she doing this job when she could be doing the same job for her family and get a lot more happiness from it. Last I heard, she was going to home school the two younger kids while the 15 year old was going to a pretty good high school which he enjoyed and was doing well.

I went through the k-12 system during the 1960s when it was common to have students grouped by ability - yes there were groups for the slow learners (I was in one because I changed schools too often in the early years and I missed that reading part - caught up by the end of grade 3 and was moved into the regular reading group). In grade 12 I 'helped' my deskmate pass algebra by letting him read my answers to the test questions - all he wanted to do was be a heavy equipment mechanic, but the curriculum said he must complete two of the three maths. He passed and 30 years later at a school reunion I found out that he owned three heavy equipment shops and was wealthy beyond belief. He needed more steamlined learning rather than be pigeon holed into a standard curriculum as if he was going to university.

I suspect many more parents are reconsidering their school options.

ccscientist

It has been widely noted that 60%of college students in the US are female. The reason I think is that men do a mental cost-benefit calculation and figure out that college is not worth it. For girls it is less of an economic decision.

I pushed in school to try to test out of subjects or skip a grade, and was always discouraged from it. For example, in 5th grade I was reading at 12th grade level (US terminology) but I couldn't go further. It turned out that I was a lot smarter than my teachers assumed and I was honors in college and got a phd. Teachers want the things that make their life easier.

TimT

What is a Delta variant. Is that the one that came from India? Why not call it the fucking Indian variant then? So we'd all know what it meant.

I gather genomic sequences has been able to identify various types of the virus, and both the Delta and Kappa variant came from India - though the Delta variant is the one at the centre of the Indian pandemic, so a cause of more concern.

Because case numbers are so low in Australia our chaps in genomic testing are able to identify individual variants quickly and the media is able to whip up hysteria every time a new variant is announced. Fun times!

WTP

What is a Delta variant. Is that the one that came from India? Why not call it the fucking Indian variant then? So we'd all know what it meant.

You're confused. If it came from Indiana it would be the Indiana variant. But this came from India. Thus it's the Delta variant. Understand how this works now? It's really not that hard, once you get your mind right.

prm

What is a Delta variant. Is that the one that came from India? Why not call it the fucking Indian variant then? So we'd all know what it meant.

Yes. The India variant was entirely predictably trotted out to propagandise keeping the useless restrictions (in the UK) because OMG INDIA VARIANT BIG NUMBERS AIEEEEE! However, India didn't play ball and the cases and deaths plummeted, partly due to widespread use of Ivermectin. Even normies might notice the variant a) was no big deal and b) was halted by a cheap and highly effective treatment (the latter demonstrating there is no need for any restrictions or not-vaccines). So it was renamed to obfuscate.

Pooklord

Vonnegut was terrific at naming his characters, but never better than when he came up with Diana Moon Glampers.

Pooklord

Her guidance counsellor (the most useless position in the school) recommended against it because the homework would cut into her social life.

Wait, what?! Why would her guidance counselor care about a teenager's social life?

And yes, although it was the most useless position, you should see how many more useless administrative positions there are nowadays . . .

PB

Professor Katz.

Because of course.

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