David Thompson
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August 03, 2021

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John D

Mary Davis, [dean of the University of Kentucky’s J. David Rosenberg College of Law,] wrote she has begun to “force myself to accept white inferiority,” and that it is “really hard.”

What. The. Actual. F*ck...?

David

What. The. Actual. F*ck...?

As noted previously,

“White fragility” is the unremarkable fact that people by and large don’t like being slandered as racists and then assigned with some pretentious collective guilt, the supposed atonement for which requires deference to actual racists and predatory hokum merchants.

These are not good people. They do not mean well.

Atempdog

These are not good people. They do not mean well.

So much that. But it's the brazenness of it that's astounding, and the people who defend these not good people.

Nikw211

These are not good people. They do not mean well.

That, as they say.

Herp McDerp

Sociopaths, armed with both sides of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Foolish people thinking they are wiser than they are, and normal people assuming that the fools surely must be wise if they hold themselves in such high esteem.

David

and normal people assuming that the fools surely must be wise if they hold themselves in such high esteem.

There will always be grifters and people who are ill-intended. What’s concerning is that the normal inhibitions and deterrents have been compromised, often badly, and nowhere more so than academia. It’s not so much that these creatures exist – it’s that they aren’t laughed out of every room they enter.

SteveGW

Ben Sixsmith mentioned Gabriel Matzneff in his article. There was a famous interview in 1990 on Bernard Pivot's programme 'Apostrophes' in which Matzneff, the famous writer, was encouraged to boast of his habitual child molestation to the general applause, sniggering, and head-nodding of the 'literary' panel. It was all rather spoiled however when a rude colonial - apparently, the only creature with a moral compass in the area - pointed out the monstrosity of his behaviour. You can find it online. Here for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0LQiv7x4xs

pst314

this jolly barn dance of intersectional psychodrama

Nice turn of phrase.

pst314

Ben Sixsmith on when paedophilia was avant-garde...Daniel Cohn-Bendit, a leading student activist in the 1968 unrest and a prominent member of the Greens...

The battle cry of the French soixante-huitards (sixty-eighters) was "It is forbidden to forbid" and among the things that they said should not be forbidden was the sexual exploitation of children. I get the impression that this was true of the sixties Left throughout the West. It would be interesting to see what fraction of the leading intellectual lights of the sixties Left were involved in that. (Not that this should surprise us: Leftism is inherently based on the use and abuse of human beings.)

pst314

There will always be grifters and people who are ill-intended. What’s concerning is that the normal inhibitions and deterrents have been compromised, often badly, and nowhere more so than academia.

Academia should be drastically shrunk, and society should return to its traditional suspicion of intellectuals.

pst314

I get the impression that this was true of the sixties Left throughout the West.

Now that I have actually read the linked article, I see that it confirms that in detail.

pst314

Another definitely-not-insane hero of the left.

J West

I totally ignore all these racists who are trying to destroy white man's culture and achievements while enjoying them.

Burnsie

"Mary Davis, [dean of the University of Kentucky’s J. David Rosenberg College of Law,] wrote she has begun to “force myself to accept white inferiority,” and that it is “really hard.”

I suspect the "really hard" part of accepting her white inferiority is the part where she resigns her highly paid position and advocates for a non-white replacement.

Sam

From Khan's review:

Murray proposes that Americans will be able to achieve a modus vivendi with racial inequality if they renew their faith in the American creed. [...] I share Murray’s yearning, but the world he wishes to resurrect is now a generation in the past. We have to face another truth: fewer and fewer Americans attend the church that adheres to the American creed nowadays. Facing Reality enjoins us to return to a faith that, alas, may already be irretrievable.

More often one sees the sad admission that America or the West of yore is dead and gone, and that a new approach will be needed. Thing is, that America/West never existed, and the thing that people of a certain age remember is a world run, more or less, by serious people. What we need is very simple but extremely difficult to implement: personal accountability.

Far too many cultural, political, and private matters are viewed thru the lens of collective responsibility. This allows blame to be diffused among the many and therefore nullified and never properly examined, much less addressed. It turns real problems into abstractions, while hysterically elevating impossible-to-solve abstractions to Beelzebub status, the counter to which is always one more snake oil vial away. Liberal democracy gives the veneer of consent and ensures we will never know just who exactly to blame for policy disasters - if the disaster is even recognized as such among the chaos the activist sow.

Personal accountability will return, it's just a matter of how. You can hang a few now, or many more later, but sooner or later aggrieved people will find someone to blame -regardless of their true guilt - and hold them to account.

Daniel Ream

Ectoplasm everywhere.

So the new trailer for the new Ghostbusters movie has dropped, and I'm going to be an iconoclast and say it looks like it's going to be a terrible movie.

It's dreary, introspective, devoid of humour and stuffed full of random visual references to the original that make no sense in context. It's a two-hour-long episode of Stranger Things, essentially.

The original Ghostbusters was about three overeducated, unemployable schmucks tossed out of a comfortable university environment, to make a go of it starting their own small business as working class exterminators while fending off officious and self-important government bureaucrats. Surely a decent scriptwriter could find a way to make that appeal to millenials.

Just as an aside, look at what characters the trailer(s) focus on. Look at what the trailer immediately presents as the central conflict of the movie. Look at how many lines each character gets. Paul Rudd is the big name star attached to this movie - how many scenes are there where he does anything, or shows any agency? All of that will tell you who the studio thinks the audience for this movie is.

This isn't the Ghostbusters movie you were promised.

sooner or later aggrieved people will find someone to blame -regardless of their true guilt - and hold them to account

Sooner or later everyone comes around the idea of helicopters. The problem is it usually happens after all the kulaks have been murdered.

What we need is very simple but extremely difficult to implement: personal accountability.

There's a common thread between the "white fragility" hustlers, the abjuration of accountability, and a Ghostbusters movie that's mostly about a single mom fretting about her on-the-trendy-spectrum daughter while ignoring her fatherless teenage son.

Sam

There's a common thread between the "white fragility" hustlers, the abjuration of accountability, and a Ghostbusters movie that's mostly about a single mom fretting about her on-the-trendy-spectrum daughter while ignoring her fatherless teenage son.

You're not the blog commenter we deserve, but you are the one we need.

Sam

Also, though admittedly Ghostbuster's is already receiving some love (mostly for simply not being the 2016 version) I wouldn't say it is iconoclastic to assert that a Hollywood movie in [current year] is going to probably suck.

Governor Squid

I'm trying to imagine a producer getting a green light for a remake of High Noon set in the present day, in one of the more vibrant neighborhoods of a major metropolitan area. Not a gritty postmodern reimagining with some deeply flawed antihero, but an actual Gary Cooper type trying to get his neighbors to stand up for themselves. One can almost hear the arguments about audience expectations and box office returns.

(I was going to add a reference to Paula Cole's Where Have All The Cowboys Gone, but just realized that it was released 25 years ago and now I think I'll just take an antacid and a nap before I yell at the neighborhood kids to get off my lawn.)

David

I wouldn’t say it is iconoclastic to assert that a Hollywood movie in [current year] is going to probably suck.

Not entirely unrelated.

Daniel Ream

set in the present day, in one of the more vibrant neighborhoods of a major metropolitan area.

Wasn't that essentially Gran Torino?

Not entirely unrelated.

I am old enough to remember Kurtzmann and Orci shitting up the Xena franchise by making Gabrielle a pacifist and pandering hard to the 16-year-old girls they obviously thought were the show's primary demographic. The episode in which Renaissance Pictures forcibly took back the reins was epic.

I don't think Kevin Feige was a genius; I just think he understood what a superhero movie was, who was watching them, and what they wanted to see. As William Goldman pointed out, there are a lot of perverse incentives in the Hollywood studio system that prevent this from being all you need to get a successful mainstream action movie made, but still.

David

I am old enough to remember Kurtzmann and Orci shitting up the Xena franchise

Mr Kurtzman’s knack for failing upwards, despite each new misfire or total disaster, makes me wonder whether he must have some really solid blackmail material stashed away in a safe.

pst314

I am old enough to remember Kurtzmann and Orci shitting up the Xena franchise by making Gabrielle a pacifist and pandering hard to the 16-year-old girls they obviously thought were the show's primary demographic.

I know nothing about the series, but it is absurd for a sword-wielding barbarian heroine to have a pacifist sidekick.

Sam

I know nothing about the series, but it is absurd

FTFY

pst314

FTFY

Correction: I know about the Modern Major General parody of the series. :-)

I am the very model of a heroine barbarian;
Through Herculean efforts, I've become humanitarian.
I ride throughout the hinterland -- at least that's what they call it in
Those sissy towns like Athens (I, myself, am Amphipolitan).
I travel with a poet who is perky and parthenian
And scribbles her hexameters in Linear Mycenian
(And many have attempted, by a host of methods mystical,
To tell if our relationship's sororal or sapphistical).
...

Jack Klompus

set in the present day, in one of the more vibrant neighborhoods of a major metropolitan area.

Wasn't that essentially Gran Torino?

Actor Bee Vang who played Thao,a part he earned despite having no acting experience would go on to attend Brown University (imagine that) and reinvent himself as an "activist." He proceeeded to piss all over the movie and Clint Eastwood using every tiresome trope about "racism". His resume has been deservedly thin ever since.

Daniel Ream

it is absurd for a sword-wielding barbarian heroine to have a pacifist sidekick

Yes. Especially since they were already responding to the criticism that Gabrielle occupied the position of Robin the Boy Hostage in a way that Hercules' sidekick did not by training Renee O'Connor in staff fighting. With, er, mixed success but give her credit for trying.

That season was...special. Timothy Omundson as an erstwhile hippie Jesus, plotlines that revealed that Xena and Gabrielle invented both the Venus/female symbol and mehndi, Gabrielle foregoing her staff to fight with a metsubishi[1] and becoming a vegan pacifist - it was everything a not terribly bright marketing intern might return from a search on "what 16 year old girls like".

Mr Kurtzman’s knack for failing upwards

He's made a lot of money in films, of the type where you just have to throw CGI at the screen and use a recognized IP and you're guaranteed to make money. His TV projects are generally low-budget genre throwaways; I'm guessing he's a man whose mediocre talent can be adequately concealed by a huge CGI budget when one is available.

To tell if our relationship's sororal or sapphistical

Sororal. That's Word of God. The lesbian overtones were injected when the writers found out that the show was wildly popular in women's prisons because of the accidental butch/femme dynamic, so they started throwing in bits explicitly to tweak them.

[1] That's a little pot with a blowhole used to blow sleeping powder into the faces of miscreants, not a motorcycle. Although frankly, Gabrielle fighting on and/or with a motorcycle could only have improved that season.

Darleen

it looks like it's going to be a terrible movie.

I'm going to politely disagree. And while I "get" that it moves beyond the original premise set up in the original and that's a GOOD thing. This is what I believe is promising:

1 - it is NOT a "reboot". Rather, it is a later chapter in the same universe

2 - I didn't see one bit of woke politics in the trailer

3 - Skipping a generation works for me -- kids either connect with grandparents or will discover stuff about dead grandparents that their parents either rejected or aren't interested in. Forgotten stuff rediscovered is pretty much a staple of fantasy.

4 - I also don't think it is a bad thing to focus on the teens in the trailer. Most of that demographic doesn't really know the original like their boomer grandparents do ... and if the kids are seeking out for help FROM these original old guys, that's just another plus for the boomers to return to the theaters.

But, we can speculate all day -- I'm willing to pony up my time and $ for this one and take my chances. That last woke one I won't even watch if it was offered free.

Governor Squid

I am the very model of a heroine barbarian;

That's delightful. How have I gone this many years without ever running across it?

Sam

so they started throwing in bits explicitly to tweak [female prisoners]

Yep. T'was only those women's prisons that got tweaked. Mid-puberty Sam was completely indifferent to the overtones.

[ awkwardly avoids eye contact with bar ]

Sigh. Alas, Showtime's Spartacus was 10 years too late (though my current and teenage self wouldn't kick Lawless The Milf out of bed for eating crackers).

pst314

films, of the type where you just have to throw CGI at the screen and use a recognized IP and you're guaranteed to make money.

Looking back, I have accompanied friends many times to showings of crappy comic/superhero/sci-fi movies, just to be sociable.

Uma Thurmond's Feet

I've seen both "Ghostbusters" trailer, and while I understand where Daniel's coming from (and I can't say he's wrong, either, since we haven't see the movie), I'm betting it'll be better than the reboot.

Low bar, I know.

Since I haven't seen "Stranger Things," I don't have that lens to view it through. This has more of a "Goonies" flavor to it, and I'm fine with that.

a different james

pandering hard to the 16-year-old girls they obviously thought were the show's primary demographic

That series was aimed at teenage girls?

* drools at memory of Xena *

pst314

The lesbian overtones were injected when the writers found out that the show was wildly popular in women's prisons because of the accidental butch/femme dynamic, so they started throwing in bits explicitly to tweak them.

Really??? Women's prisons? Or just the wider lesbian world? I would have assumed the latter.

svh

The lesbian overtones

Band name.

John Lewis

I am reminded of the hugely successful series L A Law which, when viewing figures were presumably falling, introduced a gratuitous “nudge nudge” lesbian relationship which went precisely nowhere but was still considered pretty edgy at the time.

pst314

A classy individual, to represent America at the Olympics. Truly the apex of civilization.

Name withheld by court order

Twerking may be an Olympic sport in 2024.

Daniel Ream

This is what I believe is promising

You weren't the target audience for the first film, you were the target audience for the second and third[1], and you are absolutely not the ideal demographic for a franchise relaunch that aims to be faithful to the first.

Inasmuch as woke politics is just pandering to suburban Karens, there's tons of it in the trailers. The heroic single mom, the trendy-spectrum genius daughter who gets all the action scenes, the meathead teenage son, the token black girlfriend, the useless schlub male lead - you could CGI Slimer into an episode of Reba and call it a day.

Most of that demographic doesn't really know the original like their boomer grandparents do

Most of that demographic doesn't care about Ghostbusters. The entire point of franchise relaunches is pre-awareness - you don't have to do as much marketing if your core demographic already knows what your movie is about and will go see it no matter how much it stinks. Now, at one point the conventional wisdom was that you had to massage the property to alsobring in the average moviegoer who didn't know the IP and just wanted to see a movie Friday night, to be decided on upon arrival at the cineplex. Hence gratuituous lens flares, CGI, and recognizable stars, because the core demo wasn't large enough to float a mass market movie.

That's long since ceased to be the case. Pace pst314 above, studios know they have to cater to the fans because the fans will drag their friends along and do the viral marketing the studios don't want to pay for. Ghostbusters is also not an obscure comic book property known only by nerds; it was a massive box office success and had multiple theatrical re-releases.

The 2021 Ghostbusters seems to think its core demographic is middle-aged suburban single moms. It is wrong. I expect it will do all right on its first weekend, much like Black Widow and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 did, and then crater on the second weekend as the actual demographic spreads the word. Or the movie itself, via digital piracy.

Since I haven't seen "Stranger Things," I don't have that lens to view it through

It's every 80's movie aimed at or starring kids, smashed up together with a blue filter, lugubrious direction and whatever stunt casting they could afford. It's what happens when your KPI is nostalgia/pop culture references per minute of screen time.

[1] There's a reason they bombed.

semi retired conservative

Not entirely unrelated.

Critical Drinker has also done a short review of the Ghostbusters trailer on his second channel. He is cautiously optimistic. I myself have seen many, many more good trailers in the last decade than I have seen subsequent good movies so I will withhold judgement until the time comes to pirate it.

This has more of a "Goonies" flavor to it, and I'm fine with that.

Agreed. Although I think too many people look back on The Goonies with rose coloured glasses. It was pretty schmaltzy in the Speilbergian way. And I for one have had enough of smarmy kids in every fucking movie being made but then I may not be the target audience anymore. Which is entirely fine by me. I can watch the original Ghostbusters anytime I want and not contribute a cent in support of their "causes"

WTP

These are not good people. They do not mean well.

At least two of them are friends of mine...or I suppose I should say former friends. I've heard that white fragility crap from one aimed directly at me for discussing something that he was flat out wrong about...I think it had to do with George Zimmerman. I've seen at least one other person use it in a broader sense. Several others either didn't understand what it was or simply accepted it.

pst314

At least two of them are friends of mine...or I suppose I should say former friends.

Same for me. Former friends.

Baceseras

@Daniel Ream, I think what teeth I have left have been significantly ground down by me watching gratuitous lens flares, and the average moviegoer (if I'm not he) would probably say the same. Lens flares are practically never not gratuitous. It's not even going out on a limb to say no one ever bought a ticket on purpose to see them. We are resigned to lens flares, and wait for the fashion to pass.

In every other respect, your analysis of the marketing of Ghostbusters and its ilk, is (JMHO) the goods.

WTP

We are resigned to lens flares, and wait for the fashion to pass.

If you ask me, and for some reason no one ever does, in the last several decades there has been far too much attention paid to how movies are made rather than just making movies. My parents and their friends would, when it rarely came up, name the actors they liked and the movies they liked. I cannot recall a one of them speaking about a director except possibly those with well known styles like John Ford or Hitchcock. And even that was rare. I doubt more than a handful even knew what movies Peter Bogdanovich did. I'm sure they knew approximately who he was but somehow his name never came up over dinner...or cocktails l

Daniel Ream

Lens flares are practically never not gratuitous

I literally facepalmed the day I learned that in many CGI scenes of naturalistic backdrops, the digital artists insert lens flares because we've become so accustomed to seeing them in movies that we expect them when the POV pans near a strong light source (for those unfamiliar, lens flares result from tiny imperfections in real optical lenses that scatter light from a strong source like the Sun. You don't see them if you go outside and look at a sunny sky, and there's no reason for them to exist in a realistic sky scene. They're entirely an artifact of imperfect filmmaking technology)

except possibly those with well known styles like John Ford or Hitchcock

As a filmmaking snob, I both agree and disagree with you. Directors with a recognizable style are outliers precisely because they tend to be polarizing. If a producer wants a reliable mass market ROI vehicle, they'll stay away from a direction style that's likely to veer too far into pretentious artsiness. On the other hand, if you're trying to make a movie where the direction is a big part of what you're offering the audience, a director with a distinct vision is important.

Even with mass market ROI vehicles, direction is important even if the average moviegoer doesn't really notice it. "Michael Bay movies" is a punchline for a reason.

Darleen

You weren't the target audience for the first film,

Wait, what? Aykroyd came up with the Ghostbusters concept for him and Belushi after Blues Brothers showed that the original SNL audience would turn out to the movies to see them.

Just who do you believe was that original SNL audience?

pst314

Suspend the crew? I'd buy them drinks.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Meanwhile, via Ace, in Today's World of Stupidity™, Should British Columbia change its name?

Robert Jago, a writer and consultant from the Kwantlen First Nation and the Nooksack Tribe, says any association with the Italian explorer, who is widely associated with the beginnings of the violent colonization of the Americas, is problematic.

I think I'd want to change "Nooksack" first, but probably only because I am a racist.

Michelle Nahanee, who is Sḵwx̱wú7mesh and the founder of Nahanee Creative, says this renaming process is important and an opportunity to look at what we believe now as a society.

Sḵwx̱wú7mesh ? Elon Musk naming tribes now ?

Alex

That's delightful. How have I gone this many years without ever running across it?

pst314 didn't even quote the best parts. The whole thing is here, and it's worth every pixel.

WTP

As a filmmaking snob, I both agree and disagree with you

While we do need filmmaking snobs, having so many that the people making movies start to see the sophistication of the process of making a movie..excuse me...a "film"...as their goal, where they seek their glory, in deference to telling a good story will inevitably lead to poorer stories. While one can appreciate the individual parts, it's the whole that counts. I especially despise the inside "gets". The film should stand on its own when presented to a reasonably intelligent person. I have long suspected that most people only "appreciate" many films to the degree they do because they read a Leonard Maltin review or watched Siskel & Ebert (to give you some idea how long I have found Hollywood, etc.rather tiresome).

Baceseras

Public awareness of movie directors wasn't always the mass-phenomenon it became from the 1970s on; but already in the 1920s through early sixties a substantial part of the audience did know and care about directing, and they weren't film snobs. They went to the same pictures and watched them the same way as everyone else, and often as not would have named much the same favorite films. Being able to pick out what the director has done adds a dimension to the enjoyment, even though it's complete without: same as in any other art experience, the more you know the greater the pleasure, because it's yet one more way you can turn the experience over in your mind

sH2

“The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination,” writes Kendi

“Many high schools and middle schools are assigning” Ibram Kendi’s book Stamped to students, notes law professor David Bernstein, even though this “book associated with Critical Race Theory” is filled with factual errors, and contains “bad history.”

Black privilege.

David

Black privilege

Well, Mr Kendi is by no means a gifted or rigorous thinker. His outpourings are a patchwork of unsupported statements, factual errors, and life-ruining advice. He tells us, for instance, that black people are somehow harmed by expectations of competence, reciprocation and effort - which he disdains as “racist” - and can only be “liberated” when they “reject cultural standards,” i.e., personal responsibility, diligence, punctuality, etc. And his books are given to children in middle schools across the US.

Luckily for Mr Kendi, he seems to inhabit a world in which claims needn’t be supported with evidence, or be coherently articulated. His adult audiences are remarkably, pathologically, indulgent, and seemingly untroubled by the scarcity of evidence, the wild inaccuracies, and the disregard for logic.

As noted in the thread following this,

It occurs to me that if your own career and status are in large part the result of racial favouritism and racial double standards, of pretentious cooing and unwarranted indulgence – which is to say, of an environment without probity, an insincere place – then you could easily suppose that that’s how everything works, everywhere. And that other people - all those white devils, for instance - can only have achieved whatever they’ve achieved by similarly dubious means, by being a certain hue, and are therefore undeserving of whatever it is they have…

It’s easier to sell the idea that the wider society is racially fixated and racially corrupt, and driven by racial “privilege” - with exemptions from normal corrections and reciprocal obligations - if the social and academic environment of the person making such claims, and their protégées, is geared to precisely those things.

Just a thought.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

More Deep Thoughts™ from Kendi, being called racist is just like a doctor telling you that you have cancer.

Also the person doing the race baiting identifying the racism is just trying to help and the next step is "treatment", which probably involves large transfers of cash.

David

which probably involves large transfers of cash.

He’s evidently good at parting racially neurotic lefties from their money, and their sense. He may be a stranger to logic and evidence, to facts of almost any kind, and he may beg questions at a rate of knots, but he hustles like a pro. He knows a progressive rube when he sees one. As so often, the audiences Mr Kendi attracts tend to be more interesting than he is, at least morbidly. His grifter’s patter is the standard contortion of his kind and therefore tedious, but the people who sit and listen, and fawn and coo, are supposedly educated, generally at great expense. Critical thinkers, no less. And yet they reliably ignore the tautologies, the evasions, and the obvious factual errors. Because…

And there’s something almost funny about Mr Kendi pointedly using the words skill and expertise when referring to people such as himself. But mainly himself, one assumes.

[ Edited. ]

anon a mouse

he seems to inhabit a world

Wakanda?

(Well, 'tis a movie reference)

Uma Thurmond's Feet

As always, it's easy to be caught up in the stereotyping. It's a useful method to categorize people, but harmful when it's used in politics and public policy. I would not characterize myself as a film snob for paying attention to mis en scene and certain director's trademarks, because when you're watching a Guillermo del Toro, Edgar Wright, or (obviously, from my name) Tarantino movie, you can't help but see them.

(In fact, I'll be seeing Wright's "Last Night in Soho" in the theater even tho I generally do not like horror movies.)

If anything, I'm the film snob's nightmare. I'm a fan of good storytelling, despise Rotten Tomatoes for reducing criticism to unhelpful percentages, and appreciate sometimes despised actors (Will Ferrell and Melissa McCarthy, who both seem to inspire unhinged rage by the mere mention of their names) in what I consider to be good movies (the near-universally despised "Holmes & Watson" and McCarthy's Atlanta-based movies like "Tammy.").

pst314

pst314 didn't even quote the best parts.

By intention. But I should have provided a link. Thank you for repairing my fault.

JuliaM

semi retired conservative: ’ And I for one have had enough of smarmy kids in every fucking movie being made..’

Amen! About the only movies I’m currently looking forward to are ‘Suicide Squad’, the ‘Top Gun’ sequel and Spielberg’s ‘West Side Story’ (though that only really for the ‘why…?’ aspect).

Guaranteed no smarmy kids.

WTP

To be clear... I fell for the snob word without proper delineation. To me there's a huge difference between having a great appreciation for how a work is done, an ability to see the details that others don't, and being a snob. A snob is more someone who blathers about how great an artist is mostly because they know/think the artist is great because everyone else says so. I thought my reference to Leonard Maltin and Siskel & Ebert would make that clear. My father could look at a bridge, building, arena and see the fine engineering, and especially welding, involved in creating that. I wouldn't say he was an engineering snob. I myself developed somewhat similar appreciation, based on what he taught me. But not specifically for the buildings he appreciated or things I may have read in books or such. Though I suppose I can bore my wife with such observations. Though she has yet to object.

WTP

To be a bit clearer again, I can sometimes appreciate a bad film for reasons beyond the whole. What really impresses me are the films with large crowd scenes or a huge cast. I was even an extra in one such film once, a not very good film, that helped me appreciate how much effort, work, coordination, etc. goes into producing such things. I get that. My concern is that the eye is off the ball of creating a good work that tells a good story and is now about damn near everything else. So smaaaaart people at cocktail parties can talk all smaaaart.

pst314

So smaaaaart people at cocktail parties can talk all smaaaart.

Indeed, indeed. It is a delight to meet someone who enjoys sharing insights. It is tiresome to meet someone who enjoys demonstrating their superiority.

WTP

His adult audiences are remarkably, pathologically, indulgent, and seemingly untroubled by the scarcity of evidence, the wild inaccuracies, and the disregard for logic.

Yeah, but that's not just his audiences. That's the broader market. He's successful because the damage was done, the battlefield was cleared for him by academia, the media, the arts, etc. He can reach so far because he stands on the shoulders of giants...so to speak...'ogres' perhaps a better word.

Governor Squid

It is a delight to meet someone who enjoys sharing insights. It is tiresome to meet someone who enjoys demonstrating their superiority.

I think I read that very same proverb once in The Curia...

pst314

I think I read that very same proverb once in The Curia...

Was that the blog that the insufferable Hal9000 kept linking to?

Burnsie

Aykroyd came up with the Ghostbusters concept for him and Belushi after Blues Brothers showed that the original SNL audience would turn out to the movies to see them.

Back then I worked a block away from the New York Public Library. One day I walked by and the Ghostbusters hearse was parked on the street and I'm thinking what the hell is this? Being the pre-internet era, I had no clue what is was until the movie came out many months later.

I can't believe that was almost 40 years ago. I'm getting old. How did that happen so fast?

pst314

I'm getting old. How did that happen so fast?

"Oh my paws and whiskers!"

Governor Squid

Was that the blog...?

The very same. The most epic attempt at a demonstration of superiority as I have ever seen. I could never figure out if I should feel sympathy or contempt toward the creature who committed so many pixels to the screen.

pst314

Priest sews lips together to protest climate change ignorance his need for psychiatric care.

pst314

I could never figure out if I should feel sympathy or contempt...

It's easier to feel sympathy for those who do not behave obnoxiously.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

...need for psychiatric care.

Speaking of which, there is certainly no argument about the "bitch" part.

Steve E

I could never figure out if I should feel sympathy or contempt toward the creature who committed so many pixels to the screen.

I always suspect HAL9000 was the author of that hot mess.

pst314

I always suspect HAL9000 was the author of that hot mess.

Strongly suspected, verging on certainty.

pst314

Speaking of which, there is certainly no argument about the "bitch" part.

Says that she is not "out" to her family, and yet posts that video.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

I always suspect HAL9000 was the author of that hot mess.

No doubt about it, but look on the bright side, Steve, no longer is yours also The Avatar of Shame.

Says that she is not "out" to her family, and yet posts that video.

It depends on what is meant by "out" I suspect her family has known she is off plumb for quite a while.

Uma Thurmond's Feet

Being the pre-internet era, I had no clue what is was until the movie came out many months later.

Back in '76 or so, while a wee copy boy at a newspaper, I befriended a fellow c.e. who buttonholed me one shift and demanded that I see this new sci-fi movie that just appeared. One I had never heard about. That was "Star Wars."

Years later, walking down main street one afternoon at my college, I passed by the theater. There was a poster showing Harrison Ford [yadda, yadda, yadda] "Raiders of the Lost Ark."

Dam, those were wonderful experiences.

WTP

re Hal9000…he had his moments. The one that gets me to this day, and this day because this day I spent getting attacked by yellow jackets, is minnow. That vespoligist extraordinaire. Ashamed he still gets in my head but the bastard insulted my dog. Unforgivable.

Daniel Ream

is now about damn near everything else

Movies have been about ROI since forever or they wouldn't get made at all. What changed is the way they're consumed; the shift to home consumption meant more women with children were consuming them, so the producers shifted their focus. Which is why...

I for one have had enough of smarmy kids in every fucking movie being made

Adults watching movies with kids aren't going to put up with kids on screen sassing adults. Kids parked in front of the TV as a babysitter love it.

Just who do you believe was that original SNL audience?

Same as it's always been: 18-34 year old men.

WTP

The problem predates mass home consumption by at least a dozen years. I date this problem to the increasing influence of movie reviewers and the snob society that gained traction in the 1970's. Was it here or Ace where someone commented on the waitress/diner scene in Six Easy Pieces being elitist crap? The thing about S&E that I recall was watching them for their insight but despising their (especially Ebert's) attitudes. Way too much importance on things that distract from the story. So you get these stunning reviews for meh stuff like Grand Canyon and such. What really amuses me is how they could mockingly dismiss things like Heaven's Gate and Ishtar then decades later turn around and gush...ok, not totally gush but YKWIM, about them.

pst314

Was it here or Ace where someone commented on the waitress/diner scene in Six Easy Pieces being elitist crap?

How about here?

Baceseras

the snob word

@WTP, I didn't mean to object to your use of the term film snobs: I know they do exist and aplenty, and they're a menace. But I don't think there's markedly more film snobbery than there ever was. It's just that what used to be an individual quirk is now schooled in. People who don't have any innate propensity for snobbery hear the gab and join in. Their voices get magnified and repeated by our media. It's a kind of poison (not fatal, maybe, but wasting) to the culture, but the publicity echo chamber finds it useful.

Baceseras

Six Easy Pieces - one too many?

the waitress/diner scene

Nicholson's character is a lot like Woody Allen's in Annie Hall, only Bobby's a scrapper while Alvie Singer's a lipper. But they'll always have anhedonia.

Look at it, when Alvie is with everyday people he whines that they aren't interested in the deep intellectual things; but when he's at a cocktail party crammed with intellectuals he retreats to a portable tv in the host's bedroom and a Knicks game, which is real and those phonies out there can't appreciate it.

Bobby, too: with his high class family, their manners and social rituals enrage him; but away from them in blue collar land, he blows up that his oil rig buddy "some redneck lives in a trailer park compare his life to mine!"

Why do his friends put up with him? What's wrong with the movie is none of the folks he dumps on gets to grab the stick for an inning. The only one that comes near is the butch hitchhiker, and she isn't in the picture for long.

In a way, Palm Apodaca is Bobby's mirror image, with the difference that she seems to be amused by herself. Ideally, if I was remaking this movie, I'd have her get under his skin. So this guy who's dissatisfied with everything wants what he can't have. Then you've got a movie.

APL

it looks like it's going to be a terrible movie.
I'm going to politely disagree

All good points @Darleen, but the original Ghostbusters was a comedy above all else. The next generation/sequel/reboot is not. Is there an audience for (what looks like) a "Ghostbusters coming of age story"? I think not.

semi retired conservative

Bobby, too: with his high class family, their manners and social rituals enrage him; but away from them in blue collar land, he blows up that his oil rig buddy "some redneck lives in a trailer park compare his life to mine!"

Reminds me of this Stonetoss comic...

http://stonetoss.com/comic/working-clash/

Farnsworth M Muldoon

In honor of Harry's wife, Kendi is a giver. Won't you be too ?

WTP

How about here?

I think whoever wrote what I read was rehashing this either consciously or subconsciously. I wouldn't put it past Driscoll to rehash something he wrote 9 years ago and pretend otherwise, but that's not being very charitable. Then again, I ain't the Salvation Army. That piece is might close to what I remember reading however, yet not exactly it. Thanks for the effort, though.

pst314

I wouldn't put it past Driscoll to rehash something he wrote 9 years ago and pretend otherwise, but that's not being very charitable.

Heh.

Thanks for the effort, though.

Limited effort. I only looked at the first page or two of search results.

Steve E

Steve, no longer is yours also The Avatar of Shame.

That's true. Small blessings. Still gets under my skin though. Every once in a while I'll get a different avatar. It makes me smile...but I'm easily pleased. You've got a good memory.

I used to post as HAL9000 with a quote from same after Hal had said something particularly HAL9000ish. But I'm sure people figured that out.

pst314

Small blessings.

In that category: I have been forgetting all the details of what Hal and minnow said. And if there were even earlier trolls I have forgotten even their names.

Steve E

Same as it's always been: 18-34 year old men.

I always suspected it started at 16 and tailed off after about 27. I was 16 for the first season. I'm viewing it from my own perspective, but I don't recall too many over 30s talking about the show and doing the schticks.

I remember season 3 best. First year at Rye High. I was typing an essay at the coffee table in the basement den watching SNL when the Mississauga Train Derailment happened. I lived 2 miles from the epicentre, 750 meters as the crow flies from where the train's hotbox came off. The essay was due on the Monday. I didn't make it into class until Wednesday. The prof wrote "Delayed due to disaster" on the top of the paper. He was a pretty good guy.

Steve E

Steve, no longer is yours also The Avatar of Shame.

By the way, I never did figure out your trick for changing avatars at will. I thought you might be using a VPN or something else that changed your IP address every time you commented.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

...I never did figure out your trick for changing avatars at will.

It...

Farnsworth M Muldoon

...has...

Farnsworth M Muldoon

...nothing...

pst314

New Landmark: Bridge Designed by Equitable and Inclusive Mathematics Program Celebrates Grand Opening

Farnsworth M Muldoon

...to do...

Farnsworth M Muldoon

...with...

Farnsworth M Muldoon

...IP.

Steve E

Now you're just showing off. ;p

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Now you're just showing off.

Maybe, but is also a clue...

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