David Thompson
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January 26, 2022

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prm

This is one of those situations, as often seen here, that tells you so much about the writer. Note that she pretends that using normal pronouns is 'cool and edgy' (good persuasion actually, thinking past the sale, assuming that *not* using normal pronouns is normal). This is part of the retardation you see so much with 'progressives' - perpetual adolescence. Children want to seem 'cool and edgy'. If that's still your yardstick as you saunter through middle-age, you're seeming desperate and you're in 'hello fellow kids, I'm so down with all the hip cats' territory.

Also, pretending that you squares are threatened by the radicals. Bless. Very much 'Ooh, I've juxtaposed poo and JC. Again. Cower in terror!'

Liz

a suddenly ungendered being

Lol. That.

David

Lol. That.

Well, it’s curious how Laurie’s them-ness, as it were - her displeasure at being considered female, which she is - came on quite suddenly, late in life, and for no obvious reason, beyond shifting fashion and the neurotic pretensions of her niche peer group.

As noted in the post linked above,

This is part of Laurie’s ongoing, seemingly endless drama, in which she feels a need to ‘come out’ to the same group of Twitter followers, over and over again, as in some way unconventional or sexually anomalous, each time with some new twist or contradiction, some new basis for applause. Such that one has to wonder exactly how many times this feat of stunning bravery can be achieved.

Of course, if Laurie didn’t keep outing herself as something or other every few months, apparently depending on which word is in fashion, people might not realise just how fascinating and complicated she is. And in the hamster-wheel world of competitive self-definition, being merely feminist-and-a-bit-bisexual is so old hat. Even adding polyamory to her list of attributes doesn’t cut it anymore.

Given that straight, cis and white are now commonly used as pejoratives, not least by Laurie and her followers, there’s an obvious incentive to depict oneself as unblemished by such low-status labels. And hence the periodic modifications to Laurie’s ongoing project of self-description. You don’t want to be seen wearing last season’s identity tags. And so, what we’re seeing above is a status-game called My Pronouns Are More Complicated Than Yours™.

That does seem to be the level on which it operates. Making Laurie’s use of the word childish seem unwittingly ironic.

Karl

It's always struck me as odd, the narcissism in seizing the ownership of pronouns.

They're not your pronouns. The words I use to describe you when you're not around belong, if they belong to any person, to me, not to you. Fucking egomaniac.

It's like they've heard the term social construct and automatically assumed it means they can make them up as they go along. The clue's in the name, you fucking wackos - you don't get to construct them - society constructs them. About you.

sH2

it's childish, it's tiresome, it's anti-intellectual

Lefties project.

David

Lefties project.

Well, Laurie is pretty much a walking shorthand for almost every woke affectation and mental contortion. And her tutting about rudeness rings a little hollow, all things considered.

Maynard G. Krebs

People really should watch more '60s beach/surfer movies. If they did, they might realize just how fast linguistic fads go from au current to passé. The patois in those films was frequently out of date by the time kids shelled out their 25 cents for a Saturday matinee. Do you feel me, Dad-dad-daddio?

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Lefties project.

Indeed, that is the nut of it, besides, it is his/her/its "preferred pronoun", not "legally mandated pronoun", and it is my preference not to play along with someone else's charade.

Squires

it's childish

I'm not taking that from the little girl who was pretending to be a cyborg not so long ago.

Ganderson

Maynard- when I taught high school I used to tell the kids that if I was familiar with a slang term it meant that none of them were using it anymore!

anon a mouse

in which she feels a need to ‘come out’ to the same group of Twitter followers, over and over again,

Hmm. I do wonder why that is? *Reads further*

some new basis for applause.

And there it is. Trained seals again.

kfg

She's always been a bad Penny.

ComputerLabRat

Didn't Penny also say not too long ago, when she came out with the they, that's she's also a she, but she gets to decide when and who can use it? Or some such. Her feminist side was balking at being a they - think she said she'd "earned" the she - but being a they was so much more trendy and "with it", and she's nothing if not a trend-follower. But it begs the question - if she can't make up her own mind, why does she get to scold people for using the "wrong" pronouns? Why do any of these people? How did so few gain so much power over so many?

PiperPaul

How did so few gain so much power over so many?

The internet.

ccscientist

What Penny is asking is impossible. There are 7 billion people in the world. Even in a university or office there are hundreds that you come in contact with. You do not know their names, if they are married or have kids, and certainly not their pronouns. But we have seen numerous posts here where the pronoun squad get mad about a waiter/waitress who can't guess correctly. How could they? And when there are dozens of pronouns and these clowns even use them wrong, it is impossible squared. This is all assuming you even want to play the game.

The sad reality is that all of us are insignificant in the world. No one notices us at the store or cares how we are doing except maybe friends and family. It is childish to want everyone to notice you and praise you. Praise has to be earned but clowns have rarely done anything to deserve praise. Confusing kids and coloring your hair pink are not praiseworthy actions.

Sam

I don't know, some of these Hitler Yoofs make me feel a bit threatened.

Buck Fiden

Question: In what other countries and in what languages is this "my pronouns" thing happening?

Is "misgendering" a faux-pas in France, Germany, Russia, Sudan, Botswana, China...?

"...can't guess correctly. How could they?..."

The new etiquette is to politely inquire of every person you converse with. "Hi. Nice to meet you. My pronouns are "he/him", what are yours?" If you don't ask, or if you don't have an answer when asked, you identify yourself as a Backwards Ignoramus, possibly an Angry Racist or worse.

Squires

But we have seen numerous posts here where the pronoun squad get mad about a waiter/waitress who can't guess correctly. How could they?

The point is for someone to get it wrong.

David

But we have seen numerous posts here where the pronoun squad get mad about a waiter/waitress who can’t guess correctly.

We have indeed:

And so, one has to wonder what the imagined solution is... Are checkout staff everywhere supposed to ignore the obvious fact that Arthur is female, and presents herself as female, with female clothing and hair? Should checkout staff and waitresses, and everyone working in retail, everywhere, somehow just know to pretend that Arthur is something she isn’t? Do checkout staff and waitresses really have the time and wherewithal to fathom and indulge every single customer’s psychological quirks in advance of any interaction, even a routine greeting? Exactly how much of this lady’s psychological dissonance should be foisted on everyone else?

For instance.

WTP

But it begs the question - if she can't make up her own mind, why does she get to scold people for using the "wrong" pronouns? Why do any of these people? How did so few gain so much power over so many?

Because we let them. Bullies will bully until their noses are bloodied. When one side lacks the confidence and/or fortitude to stand up to them or sits around waiting for Someone Else to suffer their slings and arrows but Someone Else has had enough, what's to stop them?

WTP

So here's another thing in this stupid pronoun game that I seem to have missed and have yet to see anyone ask...not that I care but how does this pronoun crap in regard to the made up crap like 'clownself' and such affect other gendered terms like 'son', 'daughter', 'niece', 'nephew', 'mother', 'King of Siam', etc. etc. etc.?

PiperPaul

"Hi. Nice to meet you. My pronouns are "he/him", what are yours?" Do you have any mental illness(es) or personality disorders?"

WTP

Do checkout staff and waitresses really have the time and wherewithal to fathom and indulge every single customer’s psychological quirks in advance of any interaction, even a routine greeting?

Possibly more importantly on the opposite economic, thus potential pushback end, has anyone here ever encountered a waiter or waitress or clerk or person of any similar position who has an economic interest in the money expected to come out of your pocket make such pronoun demands? If so, curious what happened next.

ccscientist

WTP: they seek to abolish all family related terms like son, daughter uncle. There was a recent item about a woman with a beard who had a kid and was outraged to be called the "mother" of the baby. Familial terms express special relationships but nothing could be more special than green hair and "clownself" so such competing terms must be banished.

WTP

Well yes, I have heard the 'birthing person' thing. But 'niece'? 'Nephew'? Certainly 'birthing capable descendant of birthing person's sibling' simply cannot fly if said person is clown-able. Otherwise we could acceptably call 'clownself' 'birthing person self' or whatever

WTP

Ah, but re-reading that...so nieces and nephews and stuff are just 'people over there' or something. So 'it' should be similarly acceptable. It's obviously all so bloody stupid and well beyond what even marxists or Nazis would push for.

Still looking for first hand accounts of these pronouns in the bush, so to speak.

Sam

Still looking for first hand accounts of these pronouns in the bush, so to speak.

It's tough since, by nature of the people who find this blog, we'll tend not to hang around such types. But also I suspect it's much like all the supposedly systemic and pervasive racism in the US - constantly commented upon by middle- and upper-class whites but seldom actually seen.

David

pronouns in the bush

Band name.

Steve E

Julie Bindel writes a good take down of the Penny, but giving gravitas to these twats and treating their writing seriously perpetuates the problem.

David provides a more appropriate forum for the discussion of such "ideas."

WTP

Band name.

Sure thing. But what kind of band? I'm imagining first album of jazz, second of country, third hip-hop, next bee-bop. Watch, someone will try this by swapping out completely different styled musicians under the same band name. And will I get a penny in residuals? Nooo. Not even a credit note.

WTP

It's tough since, by nature of the people who find this blog, we'll tend not to hang around such types.

But this. Yes, I get it. But like Daniel Ream's flippant comment about dress standards and such, a bit of a cop-out. If these people are really out there, and I don't doubt that they are, until/unless they get some pushback, significant pushback, you will find yourself presented with such a situation. It's not going to go away by magic. The question is/remains what will/did one do about it?

Sam

The question is/remains what will/did one do about it?

My wife was on a work call with a 3rd party last week. The rep from the 3rd party was Romanian and used an "ok" sign emoji to denote a bullet point achieved. My wife's manager proceeded to lecture him about the fact that white supremacists used the symbol and therefore it was offensive etc, and the very confused Romanian apologized and removed it. My wife was also blindsided by the whole affair, so stayed silent and incredulous through the whole clownshow.

I simply nodded my head when hearing the story, since I spend far too much time diving into clown world's absurdities, and suggested she should have said, "None of us are disgusting white supremacists here, so to hell with them." She admitted that would've thrown her manager for a loop, but (a) wasn't aware of this particular absurdity so was too confused to respond, and (b) didn't want to upset her manager, inviting questions about vaccine status and marking her as a badthinker.

I forget that few of us are equipped to deal with this mind cancer, and thus their power grows unabated.

JJM

Regarding "pronames" or "proper personal pronouns" - because that's essentially what they are - one limitation for the "wokistas" who insist on them is that they're always in the third person of course.

We talk to each other in the second person ("How are you today"); we talk about each other in the third person ("How is she today?"). If you make it far too cumbersome for me to talk about you in the third person, the solution is patently simple: I'm not going to.

So there's another problem for those who insist on their boutique "pronames": they're effectively "self-marginalizing"!

LW
Possibly more importantly on the opposite economic, thus potential pushback end, has anyone here ever encountered a waiter or waitress or clerk or person of any similar position who has an economic interest in the money expected to come out of your pocket make such pronoun demands? If so, curious what happened next.

To a degree, yes. Here in the buckle on the Bible Belt, there's a trendy restaurant that my sister and her husband like because they're (*sigh*) vegan. Their favorite waiter has a badge that he wears which says "They/Them".

We ignore it when we talk about him, and he says nothing offensive.

aelfheld

I may tolerate your delusions. It's a bit much to expect me to participate in them.

ComputerLabRat

Still looking for first hand accounts of these pronouns in the bush, so to speak.

I didn't go out to eat much before the wuhan flu and I get out even less after (so many rules, not worth my time and limited $$), so no waiter/waitress/waitron pronoun interactions, and I just go to the self checkout when I do the weekly shop now (partly because the mask/signage/partitions make dealing with the cashier a miserable experience). Employees of various public-serving establishments in this city tend to have the poisonous hair colors and extensive tattooing, but right now masking seems to be a bigger concern than pronouns. Even my work is in a clownworld-rich environment, but since I don't teach and students on my end of campus tend to be from foreign countries where pronouns aren't their biggest concern, I've managed to avoid most of the insanity, except when getting an email from HR or the U prez, and they put pronouns in their email signature.

Then my boss wanted me to collaborate with someone from the English Dept. who just got a grant and needs some help getting data that I am familiar with. Of course face to face meetings are verboten and I get an email: "Female Name (she/elle/ella) wants to invite you to a Zoom meeting!". I'm now terrified - am I going to have to announce pronouns in the meeting? Am I going to be fired if I politely decline? As it turns out, unserious people act unseriously, and I dutifully logged into the Zoom meeting that the she the host never bothered to log into. Never got an email saying she had to cancel, nothing. Needless to say I was relieved.

Further to WTP's question - I think this pronoun stuff is most prominent online, in social media. If it's in real life, it's mainly in things like email signatures and interoffice chat/message board profiles, etc. And even from various videos linked on Twitter and such, it seems to me the customer is the one banging on about pronouns, not the waiter/waitress/cashier/desk clerk. One exception to this is teachers, but they also have much better job security and their customer base is captive.

Nikw211

Julie Bindel, whose review of Laurie’s latest book is not entirely positive, ...

Bindel's review provides the following extract from Penny's latest:

    Something has broken. Something is breaking still. Not like a glass breaks or like a heart breaks, but like the shell of an egg breaks – inexorably, and from the inside. Something wet and angry is fighting its way out of the dark, and it has claws.

If you think that's anus-tuggingly awful, you would of course be absolutely right.

However, this is her writing from a decade ago, when she was about 25:

    We tried terribly hard to save each other, in the way that young people do, sharing out whatever meager bits of work and welfare we could get our hands on, nursing one another ineffectually through the shock of walking out of school and college into a world that didn’t want us. It took us two years to realize that we couldn’t save one another, not one by one. We had to do it together, or not at all, all of us, the lost boys and girls of the credit crunch with no jobs, no prospects, no safe places to live, none of the things we played the game for all our young lives.

So 10 years on, at 35, and despite the fact that she has been writing - and getting published - almost continuously during all that time, there's not one lick of evidence that her writing has improved in any way whatsoever.

I mean, you'd think there'd have been at least some change, however small, wouldn't you?

Yet it still reads like the ramblings of an overwrought teenage diary.

Nikw211

... sharing out whatever meager bits of work and welfare we could get our hands on, nursing one another ineffectually through the shock of walking out of school and college into a world that didn’t want us.

She went to fucking Oxford for fuck's sake.

Nikw211

Oops!

Nikw211

Shit.

Someone pass me the cone of shame, will you?

pst314

"She went to fucking Oxford for fuck's sake."

Didn't her parents have money?

pst314

[ Wipes sweat from forehead. ]

As has been warned previously, Preview did not show the italics getting fixed. What's more, that was also true after I hit "Post". Only refreshing the screen showed the italics as fixed.

PiperPaul

"...they also have much better job security and their customer base is
victims are captive."

APL

Well, in the case of Laurie Penny at least, she would probably be happy if we all ended up using "Comrade" as the future form of address.

David

Shit.

[ Reaches under bar for revolver. ]

[ Wipes sweat from forehead. ]

[ Puts revolver back in ivory box. ]

Not today, Bessie. Not today.

Sam Duncan

Karl just stole my line. But yes, spot-on. Claiming “your” pronouns is simply pig-ignorance. This is what happens after 50 years of pretending that you don't need to teach grammar.

Darleen

My wife's manager proceeded to lecture him

Um, someone needs a private talk with that manager's boss because a very public lecture of a (client/partner/employee) of this nature is rarely about the issue. That "manager" has power issues. And it will, sooner or later, poison staff relations.

That's just one of the endless issues with the Woke. They are so sure of their own righteousness, public humiliation of any transgressor is the high point of their day.

If someone inadvertently makes an inappropriate statement or gesture, a real manager will take it up with them in private later.

I probably wouldn't have confronted the manager at that moment but I'd sure drop a dime on him/her. (been there, done that)

L

Ms. Penny's worst fear is that we - society - remove her "reason" for bitching.

We could all call everyone by whatever pronoun they invented this week and nothing would improve. She would still be a midwit misfit. She will never be happy or well-adjusted or productive member of society. She doesn't WANT that. She's deathly afraid of that. Because it would force her to confront the fact that she's incapable of producing the kind of value that affords her the lifestyle she grew up with.

In the end, this is nothing more - and nothing less - than her class anxiety wearing through. She was born posh and knows she can't maintain it on the strength of her own talents....yet she values sneering at the lower classes more than anything else in her awful little world.

Watcher In The Dark

People may call me anything they want. I always quote the phrase: "A rose by any other name." It can lead people to want to call me Rose, but as I say, I don't care. The fact they are even talking to me is a sign I am both alive and worth the effort.

One final thought: was Ms Penny happy to be called 'she' and 'her' before there was all this kerfuffle over pronouns? If so, what changed? Other people's opinions, perhaps? In which case, how sad this personoid is desperately keen to respond to any passing fad.

Daniel Ream

I probably wouldn't have confronted the manager at that moment but I'd sure drop a dime on him/her. (been there, done that)

I say this without sarcasm - how well has that worked out for you, in the general case? I ask because I have worked for any number of toxic bosses over the decades, and in every single case they were toxic because they'd been allowed to be toxic and had been getting away with it forever. Bosses don't generally suddenly become insecure power trippers overnight; it's a fundamental personality trait that their bosses are aware of and don't care (or are actively protecting).

The only case to the contrary I've ever seen was when a previous manager was fired for throwing things at one of his direct reports in a meeting, and the underling hastily promoted into the acting position was just as bad - but had no prior relationship with the ultimate boss. Even then, the underling was allowed to remain for two years until a departmental restructuring.

Jack Klompus

Laurie Penny was a 2015 Fellow at Harvard's Berkman Center for Internet and Society (whatever they do.) Same university whose legendary scholars now include Parkman school shooting "survivor" David Hogg who was rejected by every college he'd previously applied to and Jazz Jennings the reality show star famous for being deluded into thinking he's a girl and getting his junk cut off with parental approval.

ComputerLabRat

One final thought: was Ms Penny happy to be called 'she' and 'her' before there was all this kerfuffle over pronouns?

She still is, according to the twit message announcing her theyness (at David's link at the end of the OP). She thinks having been feminist in public has earned her the she, but not just anyone can use it, at just any time. The they/them is purely for grasping at relevancy.

David

Laurie’s trajectory of oppression is touched on here.

pst314

If someone inadvertently makes an inappropriate statement or gesture, a real manager will take it up with them in private later.

Praise in public, reprimand in private.

Darleen

how well has that worked out for you, in the general case?

You're right that it does depend on who the boss is. In my case ... at least twice ... the boss was fairly new and the power-tripping manager couldn't help but keep behaving badly even with a new boss. It took just a quiet visit, with receipts, with the new boss to get the manager collared and transferred.

I take a dim view of bullying - and that's how I framed it - and this kind of public harangue is straight out harassment.

Sam

in every single case they were toxic because they'd been allowed to be toxic and had been getting away with it forever

My wife's manager is the longest tenured person at the relatively young company, and the owners openly complain about her - in an "at will" state - and yet here we are. Wanting to be liked and good old inertia are a helluva drug combo.

Darleen

Jazz Jennings the reality show star famous for being deluded into thinking he's a girl and getting his junk cut off with parental approval.

There's no good end for that boy. I loathe reality shows and don't watch it. But a friend who does watch Jazz says the "cute little *girl*" stuff is gone, he's gained 100 lbs and talks about his mental issues (duh).

Not just the usual tragic cases of "child stars" whose fame is gone once they no longer kids, but Jazz is precluded from any sort of real, intimate relationship. He was on puberty blockers long before the genital mutilation and is incapable of sexual feelings. He's trapped.

WTP

So 10 years on, at 35, and despite the fact that she has been writing - and getting published - almost continuously during all that time, there's not one lick of evidence that her writing has improved in any way whatsoever.

And just the sort of prose that would have gotten her a much better grade in English than my to-the-point-less-flowery writing ever received. However, my to-the-point-less-flowery writing got me A's (well on my papers at least) in AP History class.

I ask because I have worked for any number of toxic bosses over the decades, and in every single case they were toxic because they'd been allowed to be toxic

This...but that can backfire. Pretty sure I related here of an ex-boss-of-my-boss who, when listening to his banter on pre-meeting conference calls was like watching a drunk monkey play with a hand grenade. Most of what I heard was sexist BS and I let the women know that if they wanted any backup on reporting him, I would support them 100%. Just found out at lunch about a month ago that in some other meeting he was making racist comments. One of my coworker (a conservative, mild mannered but very engineer engineer) had had enough and reported him to HR. Of course one of his punishments resulting from HR investigating that incident was that they had him teach our diversity training classes. The ex-BoMB is friends with a former manager that I worked for/with/coulda-had-his-job-but-turned-it-down-partly-due-to-diversity-BS and in a recent FB discussion that started with football but got political, ex-BoMB proceeded to "wokify" the two of us.

The only case to the contrary I've ever seen was when a previous manager was fired for throwing things at one of his direct reports in a meeting

I had a lesbian co-worker remove her undershirt from under her sweater and throw it at me in a meeting. Several decades ago, this was. Good times, good times.

ns

"a more progressive generation." As Ms. Penny has slavishly followed every half-baked fad that would épater le bourgeoisie, I'm sure it is a shock to her system finding that the younger kids have the same disdain and contempt for her and her views that she had for her elders.
"ungendered" isn't that the final stage before metamorphosis into her final form: Cat Lady?

Daniel Ream

a friend who does watch Jazz says the "cute little *girl*" stuff is gone, he's gained 100 lbs and talks about his mental issues (duh).

I would be curious to see which way the show goes: quietly fold as "Jazz"' lived experience continues to undermine The Narrative, or double down on the freakshow.

The only reality show I consume is Below Deck for the occasional segments on running a large motor/sailing yacht, but my ex used to binge all the 90 Day Fiance shows. I have become convinced the producers intend these shows as cautionary tales and morality plays.

Sam

he's gained 100 lbs and talks about his mental issues

Well damn, maybe he is a she.

ccscientist

"a more progressive generation." consisting of rejection of biological reality, intense narcissism, incoherent thinking, constant agitation and anger, and bullying. Yeah, I want to be liked by such people...not.

"ungendered"--there are plenty of people who don't have a strong sex drive but that doesn't make them "ungendered". Nor do they flaunt it. Just keep it to yourselves, please.

the OK sign: no better signal that you drink the coolaid than making the claim that this is a supremacist sign. It has been in use for 100 years. The joke was started on 4chan as trolling. It is like the college students who claimed that wood paneling in an office made them feel "unsafe"--just letting us know that they are unwell.

WTP

the OK sign: no better signal that you drink the coolaid than making the claim that this is a supremacist sign. It has been in use for 100 years.

A college buddy and I used to use that sign to indicate "OK" in a sarcastic context. I apparently use it without thinking in that context today. I've been called out on it a couple of times, only because I was the one who originally informed these people about the new meaning, with no conscious awareness/recollection that I had just used it. Can't wait for some ****** to seriously accuse me. Not that I don't have (former) friends who accuse me of perusing white supremacist web sites...like this one specifically...

Capisce?

Baceseras

My pronouns are I me my mine, myself, we us our ours, ourselves. For pronouns when speaking to or of others, see any English-language grammar book published before the present juddering era.

Joe B

“There’s no good end for that boy…”

Heh, heh

Baceseras

Sorry, just scrolled up and saw Karl and JJM (and maybe others too) already made the same point.

David

(former) friends who accuse me of perusing white supremacist web sites...like this one specifically...

Some people must see a very strange version of the world.

WTP

Some people must see a very strange version of the world.

Well, if Larry Elder can be one...only in America.

Uma Thurmond's Feet

So Joel was a white supremacist. So sad.

I'm reminded of some mystery novels by Lev Raphael ("Little Miss Evil" especially) from back in the late '90s, in which his progressive Jewish character, an adjust professor at a University of Michigan-like school (where Lev taught) learns that his department is setting up a Department of Whiteness Studies. He was pretty nonplussed about it. Little did he know he was seeing the seeds being sown.

Relative to MST3K, I've been watching a lot of old episodes, and now the white/Hitler Youth jokes don't seem nearly as funny as they used to. I've contemplated compiling a mashup of all the race jokes and blaming them for BLM.

Sam

now the white/Hitler Youth jokes don't seem nearly as funny as they used to

Yes, self-deprecating white jokes that used to seem harmless or mildly annoying now seem like tragic canaries in the coal mine. Red Letter Media comes to mind here.

Joe Ego

I can’t say that my own views on modish pronoun stipulation make me feel “cool and edgy.” If anything, they seem fairly self-evident and unremarkable, not the stuff of obvious scandal or sudden intakes of breath. And I doubt that anyone here is likely to feel “threatened… by the ideas of a more progressive generation.” Though Ms Penny’s tendency to self-flatter – her inevitable trajectory – does catch the eye.

This is the intersection (ahem) of progs'/SJW's perspectives with their projection. Ms Penny's perspective is that she sees herself as trendy (new pronouns!), thus "cool and edgy". Meanwhile she projects this desire to be trendy onto the rest of us, so the active avoidance and misuse of pronouns is because someone wants to be "cool and edgy" just like Ms Penny sees herself.

Chester Draws

My pronouns are I me my mine

Note how the requirement to use the "correct" pronouns never involves any effort on the part of the person demanding?

If Penny is plural, then she should refer to herself as "we". Until she does that, I will ignore her demands.

If the "they" is meant to be singular but ungendered, then we have "it" for that in English. I am happy to refer to her as "it".

pst314

Trans "expert" is monster.

Squires

Lesbian undershirt* is a strange choice of projectile.**

* - band name
** - album name

asiaseen

“There’s no good end for that boy…”

Nor, it would seem, a happy one.

Steve E

Trans "expert" is monster.

What the hell is wrong with people?

I wouldn't trust her with my coffee order (and I don't drink coffee) but people listen to her okaying radical mastectomies for adolescents?

ACTOldFart

suddenly ungendered being(s)

Band name

pst314

An expressway shooting dashboard. Well, it is a state run by Democrats.

Peachy rex

A quirk of Illinois law is that all interstates belong to the State Police... even those running through Chicago. And the Chicago expressways are the shooting galleries you'd expect.

TimT

Penny certainly did say she used both 'she/her' and 'they/them' pronouns, though I think she may have deleted the original tweets. Which makes the publishers sole response to the review - presumably authorised by Penny herself - perfect passive aggression: "“I wanted to highlight that Laurie Penny’s pronouns are they/them (as indicated in the book and press release). Could the review be updated to reflect this, please?" I mean, there's no way to win against a person who chooses which pronoun you may use and when.

David

perfect passive aggression

Laurie’s “progressive” milieu does seem to be an endless game of Gotcha!. As noted previously,

If, for instance, you poke through Laurie’s Twitter feed, you’ll see that she and her likeminded admirers very much like to imagine themselves – and to describe themselves – as radical, freethinking, counter-cultural, iconoclastic, etc, while simultaneously being utterly predictable, even in their perversity, and while clearly being concerned by how their fellow wokelings will judge them. For many, having opinions that are two weeks out of date is a kind of social death, and many hoops will be jumped through in order to avoid that terrible fate.

This may explain why such people often seek out environments in which they can browbeat impressionable and insecure teenagers, among whom peer-pressure is very much a thing, and why they often fare poorly when arguing with adults outside of their usual in-group, where the assumed pressure to conform may not be a priority, and not be available as leverage.

But then, this is someone who flies around the world, from Oxford to Harvard, from London to Los Angeles, while tweeting about how oppressed she is.

Stephanie Richer

Chest feeding.

Birthing people.

Menstruators.

The NCAA.

It's just more erasure of women.

pst314

And the Chicago expressways are the shooting galleries you'd expect.

Streets too, though.

WTP

It's just more erasure of women.

They refuse opportunity after opportunity to speak up for themselves. What should they expect? It's mostly men pointing these things out. Even men who are too such pussies that they won't speak up for themselves when being excoriated by the women who otherwise won't speak up for themselves. It's a spiral down.

pst314

"I'm so f***ing stressed out from running my pet lizard Instagram account..."

Dr Evil

Not Penny Red any longer but mutated into Penny Dreadful.

pst314

Well, all Reds are pretty damned dreadful...

ComputerLabRat

Laurie’s “progressive” milieu does seem to be an endless game of Gotcha!.

It certainly is. And the option to not play is often taken away, especially if this nonsense involves the workplace.

I went back to the Journey To The Centre Of Attention post where there's a screenshot of her sheness/theyness twit. Clicking on the actual Twitter link gives the "This Page Does Not Exist" message. It's this passive-aggressive, no way to win/please the other person crap that reduces my desire to be polite and use stupid pronouns as requested. Why bother? These people will never be satisfied, even when their boots are stomping on the faces of their fellow citizens, forever.

Farnsworth M Muldoon

Lest we forget, she is one of our betters.

Sam

suddenly ungendered being

Ah yes, I remember the Bobbit tragedy.

pst314

Ah yes, I remember the Bobbit tragedy.

Heh.

But that reminds me: Female genital mutilation was a hot topic among feminists at the time, and the standard position was that it was never acceptable to cut off a woman's clitoris no matter how she might have misbehaved. But when Lorena Bobbit cut off her abusive husband's penis they found that hilarious and justifiable.

WTP

In regard to what I just said about women not speaking up for themselves, well I stand (partially...we'll see about the commitment) corrected. Just got this off a FB post referencing an article in Swimming World magazine. Nancy Hoggshead, with whom I had a slight tiff regarding this issue, has taken it up with some degree of equivocation. At least as I see it based on past discussion. But while I think this needs to be stronger, it is stronger than I expected.

The NCAA has recently announced it would defer to USA Swimming’s transgender eligibility standards, and FINA has said that its transgender eligibility standards will not be finalized prior to the championship season. Therefore, we respectfully request that USA Swimming adopt an interim evidence-based transgender eligibility process to be announced well before the Women’s NCAA Championships, March 16-19, 2022, in Atlanta, Georgia.

Respectfully, we request that USA Swimming’s interim eligibility process incorporate the following elements:

An expert review committee consisting of recognized experts in swimming performance, sex differences in human performance, physiology, cardiology, and endocrinology.
Examination of physician documented evidence such as:
Suppression of testosterone into the female range for a minimum number of years prior to swimming competition in the female category.
Demonstration of continuation of suppression of testosterone in the female range during the period of eligibility for swimming regular season and championship competition in the female category.
Necessary certifications concerning timing, levels, and consistency, should be reported by the athlete’s treating endocrinologist to ensure monitoring is not unnecessarily intrusive.
Consideration of male-puberty mitigation in swimming performance by event, such as:
Examination of pre-/post- transition time declines compared to the current NCAA qualifying time male/female percent difference as a proxy for the expected male/female difference.
Examination of pre-/post- hierarchical ranking in male and female D-I swimmers to
determine whether these rankings are reasonably within the same range.
Examination of pre-/post- video evidence of swimming performance to verify that the swimmer is maximizing their performance effort.
Review of drug testing results during the regular season or at conference or NCAA
championship events.

pst314

On a lighter note, "A man can consider his day a success if he has worked as hard as these buttons."

WTP

On a lighter note

She's the Danish Defense Minister? The girl who was Sergeant at Arms for the Juniorettes at my high school was more intimidating.

NeilD

...Laurie’s ongoing project of self-description...

heh heh

pst314

Miami Beach: Liquor store owner beats thieves with stick. I get the impression from some recent news stories that, thanks to Democrat protection of criminals, people are starting to think about taking the law into their own hands.

ccscientist

It seems to me a key attribute of the Left is a complete lack of principles. Conservatives are pretty consistent (though repub politicians can waffle). They support family, country, honesty, hard work, independence, free speech.

The Left is for women's rights, but then destroys those rights at a moment's notice for trans rights. It is all about black lives but when most of the rioting was destroying black businesses (which are true source of opportunity and wealth) there was not a hint of caring about it. When actual minorities wanted more police protection, the defund movement was deaf to them. It is just random feelings without any interest in what actually happens.

Stephanie Richer

Hmm . . . What if Biden "fulfills" his promise and nominates a Black transwoman to the Supreme Court?

PiperPaul

a key attribute of the Left is a complete lack of principles

Well, their leader Marx did say, after all, "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."

Squires

It seems to me a key attribute of the Left is a complete lack of principles.

When dealing with the Left it is advisable to consider that the matter is never one of principles, but of tactics. Hypocrisy, pretending a matter is of principles, is a tactic.

It is just random feelings without any interest in what actually happens.

Those who cannot or will not control themselves will tend to look for at least one of two things: others they can control, and others who will control them. These are both paths of lesser resistance, compared to self-control.

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